Is it possible to find a 26 ish foot boat with a long keel? Does anyone know of any makes etc. If not can anyone tell me the reason for this ( there has to be some science behind it!) If not and i'm looking for a 26ft boat, for deep sea and live aboard, late 70's or 80's with a budget of about £12,000 what sort of boat can anyone advise me to take a look at. In the UK everything is bilge keel. Can anyone give me tips on stay away or a good idea! More info about our intentions posted further down the forum so i'll not repeat myself. Thanks to anyone who can give me a hand or a word of advice.
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Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Full keel boats
Mandy - On your budget you will be hard pressed to find a full keel boat in the length you are talking about. There are some - Morris's Frances comes to mind - but they are in the range of $45k usd. I would look a bit older - to the late 60's and early 70's if you want that configuration. You should be able to find a 26' Pearson Ariel in your price range. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Mandy - On your budget you will be hard pressed to find a full keel boat in the length you are talking about. There are some - Morris's Frances comes to mind - but they are in the range of $45k usd. I would look a bit older - to the late 60's and early 70's if you want that configuration. You should be able to find a 26' Pearson Ariel in your price range. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
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Mike
Why there aren't a lot of small full keel boats
There weren't a lot of small full keel boats made after the '60s. Around that time, most manufacturers switched to fin keel designs. There are a bunch of reasons for this, but I think the most important was that full keel designs were seen as old-fashioned. For the daysailing and coastal cruising that most small boat buyers do, the stability and safety offered by a fin keel is more than sufficient, and the increased speed and manuverability from a fin keel is a big bonus. The reason that not too many manufacturers make full keel models today is economic, not scientific; most buyers want optimal performance, not optimal stability. I don't know what 12,000 pounds translates into for dollars, but you might want to also investigate the Contessa 26 as a possibility. Tania Abei used the boat in her circumnavigation.
There weren't a lot of small full keel boats made after the '60s. Around that time, most manufacturers switched to fin keel designs. There are a bunch of reasons for this, but I think the most important was that full keel designs were seen as old-fashioned. For the daysailing and coastal cruising that most small boat buyers do, the stability and safety offered by a fin keel is more than sufficient, and the increased speed and manuverability from a fin keel is a big bonus. The reason that not too many manufacturers make full keel models today is economic, not scientific; most buyers want optimal performance, not optimal stability. I don't know what 12,000 pounds translates into for dollars, but you might want to also investigate the Contessa 26 as a possibility. Tania Abei used the boat in her circumnavigation.
D
David Wallace
A good full keel small boat
Yes Mandy, there is a perfect small full keel boat that fits your budget. It is the Bayfield 25. These boats were built by a Canadian company in the 70's and 80's but went out of buisness in the early 90's. It was desgined by Ted Gozzard. They are well built boats,(I know because I own one), and run into the range of $15,000 to $25,000 Canadian dollars and are certainly worth a look at. These boats also come in 29', 32' and 36' lenghs. Though smaller then a 26, the Bayfield 25 is quite roomy with 6' headroom.
Yes Mandy, there is a perfect small full keel boat that fits your budget. It is the Bayfield 25. These boats were built by a Canadian company in the 70's and 80's but went out of buisness in the early 90's. It was desgined by Ted Gozzard. They are well built boats,(I know because I own one), and run into the range of $15,000 to $25,000 Canadian dollars and are certainly worth a look at. These boats also come in 29', 32' and 36' lenghs. Though smaller then a 26, the Bayfield 25 is quite roomy with 6' headroom.
C
Clyde
Contessa 26 is your best option...
Mandy, If you are in the UK, it limits your options on the number of full keel sailboats available to you. If you lived in North America, there would be a number of Canadian and American manufactured full keel sailboats. I think that your best option in a full keel sailboat in your size and price range if you are living living in the UK is the Contessa 26 as Mike of Branford said in an earlier response. There is a Contessa 26 owners group on the Internet, which I think is located in the UK. On the Contessa 26 owners web site they have a brokerage service which lists Contessa 26 that are for sell in the UK. Living in the US, I've never seen a Contessa 26 at any of the US marinas, so I don't know how well they sail. I've seen articles about them and it appears that the Contessa 26 is well regarded in Canada. Click on the link for the Contessa 26 web site. I've included an article I ran across on the web about them, I hope this helps. Fair Winds. Clyde A Tradition in Fiberglass The Contessa 26 by Paul Howard Canadian Yachting The Contessa 26 entered production in England in 1966 by Jeremy Rogers in Lymington, with several hundred built. Moulds for the Contessa were shipped to Canada in 1969, with the first of the boats completed later that same year. J.J. Taylor and Sons Ltd. had been building boats on their site overlooking Toronto Harbour's Western Gap since 1904. The Contessa would become the design to help this company change over from wood to fibreglass production. Taylor's yard was later taken over by the National and Alexandra Yacht Clubs when the manufacturer moved to Rexdale, in Toronto's dry-docked northwest quadrant. Other locally built boats from the 1960s, made of fibreglass but based on the lines of the Folkboat, are the Whitby 26 Folkboat and the Alberg 30. The family resemblance of moderate beam without pinched ends, pronounced sheer, long overhangs - especially at the bow - a long keel cut away at the forward end and a steeply raked rudder shaft attached to the keel, is obvious in all of these designs. The Contessa was known as a capable ocean cruiser from the outset of production in England. Many of these boats competed in the OSTAR (the Observer Single-handed Transatlantic Race) and the Round Britain and Ireland Race. In the first three years of production 350 hulls were laid up. The 26 is easily recognizable by its massive outboard rudderhead with slabs of teak sandwiching the rudder, as well as a long curved tiller poking from the middle of the sandwich. The bubble at the aft end of the coachroof - where most vessels have a sliding companionway hatch -- is said to make the coachroof stronger and more watertight for rough ocean conditions. Headroom under the hump is 5 ft. 8 in. Cramped Quarters The lack of light and air from a sliding hatch has always put me off the Contessa. I am 5 ft. 10 in. and have lived aboard on sailboats with less than standing headroom. But each has had a sliding hatch where I could stand upright with feet on the cabin sole and my head poking out the companionway hatch. I enjoy surveying the 360 degrees around the horizon from this vantage point. As well, the Contessa employs a raked cabin bulkhead to allow one to climb the companionway steps without bumping one's head on the coachroof. I also dislike the long stack of raked drop-boards, as they tend to let in more rain and spray than shorter, vertical boards, and must be kept closed more that the vertical type. The boat feels closed-in, a condition many owners -- and later the builder -- have rectified with the addition of an opening amidships hatch. This cramped space reminds me of a comment made by a Frenchman who observed as he visited my British-built yacht: "Les anglais," he nodded knowingly as he surveyed the tight quarters of the main salon, "ils se cachent du temps!" (translation: The English hide from the weather.) Canadian Version The interior, however, feels safe, protected and cocoon-like but definitely not open and airy. The Canadian version of the 26 was pulled from the same British-made hull and deck moulds until hull 300, in 1983. Then Gary Bannister, the principal partner of J.J. Taylor since 1979, redesigned the deck mould and some of the interior moulds. To increase headroom, he lowered the floor by lengthening the hump at the aft end of the coachroof to extend farther into the cabin. He also added a amidships hatch for increased light and ventilation. Other changes at the time included the addition of an anchor locker at the bow and a switch to cast lead ballast instead of cast iron, and the shifting of the water and waste tanks. The updated version also had a teak and holly sole. Power Plant The boat always had the option of an inboard diesel engine, with the 6.6-hp Petter first installed-- then, later, the 7-hp Faryman was standard. Halyards were lead aft on the updated version, with clutches and winches at the aft end of the coachroof. A third set of gudgeons and pintles was added to support the long blade of the rudder. Taylor 26 It was in 1984 that the Contessa had her name changed to the J.J. Taylor 26. "The name change made no difference to the buyers of the boat," said Gary Bannister. "And the Taylor name had always been associated with the boat." According to Bannister, Jeremy Rogers had gone bankrupt and the British Contessa moulds were destroyed in a fire. The company that subsequently purchased the rights to build the boat in the U.K., also claimed the rights in North America. After some legal wrangling, Bannister found that he had every right to continue to build the boat, only he was unwilling to suffer through a lengthy -- and costly -- international dispute. So, he simply changed the boat's name and continued production. Ironically, the Contessa never went back into production in the U.K. Viki de Kleer of Toronto is the sole owner of Mollyhawk, hull number 163, built in 1975. As an avid sailor who often single-hands her boat, Viki is one of the few Canadian sailors to hold the prestigious Royal Yachting Association's Yachtmaster's certificate - a much more rigorous level of competence than the Canadian Yachting Association's Offshore standard. During her 18 years of ownership, she has added a amidships deck hatch, and the diesel has been changed to a Yanmar 9-hp. Viki also replaced the split fiddle-block mainsheet system with a traveller mounted across the aft end of the cockpit and supported on a stainless tube above the tiller. De Kleer says this arrangement not only gives better sail control, but also keeps the mainsheet from running across the cockpit. She has also added roller reefing to the headsail and a jackstay to the foredeck for setting a storm jib. A bow anchor roller now pokes out at the starboard side of the forestay. "There was always water on the side decks, as the scuppers were not the lowest point of the deck," she observed. New scuppers, at the right level, are now retro-fitted. De Kleer also had a third gudgeon and pintle added to the rudder, and a shoe is now bolted at the heel of the keel to overlap with the foot of the rudder. This addition prevents floating lines from snagging in the gap between the rudder and keel. Varuna is the best-known Taylor 26, sailed around the world by Tania Aebi, the youngest woman to solo circumnavigate. Her stories were often featured in a U.S. sailing magazine in the mid-'80s, and were later published in her book Maiden Voyage. In all, there were about 400 Contessa and Taylor 26s built in Canada, and the last rolled out of the factory just before it closed in 1990. "As a swan song for the company," said Bannister, "we constructed the 14 friendly gargoyles that grace the corners of the Skydome in Toronto." Micheal Snow, the artist who created the figures, sculpted them in foam. Then the boat builders at J.J. Taylor fiberglassed and finished them. "It was a fun last project for the company," said Bannister. The Contessa/Taylor 26 is a much admired institution in Ontario, and its long production run make this boat a common sight. Its loyal owners are traditionalists and keen sailors who appreciate the Contessa's easy-to-handle and dependable performance.
Mandy, If you are in the UK, it limits your options on the number of full keel sailboats available to you. If you lived in North America, there would be a number of Canadian and American manufactured full keel sailboats. I think that your best option in a full keel sailboat in your size and price range if you are living living in the UK is the Contessa 26 as Mike of Branford said in an earlier response. There is a Contessa 26 owners group on the Internet, which I think is located in the UK. On the Contessa 26 owners web site they have a brokerage service which lists Contessa 26 that are for sell in the UK. Living in the US, I've never seen a Contessa 26 at any of the US marinas, so I don't know how well they sail. I've seen articles about them and it appears that the Contessa 26 is well regarded in Canada. Click on the link for the Contessa 26 web site. I've included an article I ran across on the web about them, I hope this helps. Fair Winds. Clyde A Tradition in Fiberglass The Contessa 26 by Paul Howard Canadian Yachting The Contessa 26 entered production in England in 1966 by Jeremy Rogers in Lymington, with several hundred built. Moulds for the Contessa were shipped to Canada in 1969, with the first of the boats completed later that same year. J.J. Taylor and Sons Ltd. had been building boats on their site overlooking Toronto Harbour's Western Gap since 1904. The Contessa would become the design to help this company change over from wood to fibreglass production. Taylor's yard was later taken over by the National and Alexandra Yacht Clubs when the manufacturer moved to Rexdale, in Toronto's dry-docked northwest quadrant. Other locally built boats from the 1960s, made of fibreglass but based on the lines of the Folkboat, are the Whitby 26 Folkboat and the Alberg 30. The family resemblance of moderate beam without pinched ends, pronounced sheer, long overhangs - especially at the bow - a long keel cut away at the forward end and a steeply raked rudder shaft attached to the keel, is obvious in all of these designs. The Contessa was known as a capable ocean cruiser from the outset of production in England. Many of these boats competed in the OSTAR (the Observer Single-handed Transatlantic Race) and the Round Britain and Ireland Race. In the first three years of production 350 hulls were laid up. The 26 is easily recognizable by its massive outboard rudderhead with slabs of teak sandwiching the rudder, as well as a long curved tiller poking from the middle of the sandwich. The bubble at the aft end of the coachroof - where most vessels have a sliding companionway hatch -- is said to make the coachroof stronger and more watertight for rough ocean conditions. Headroom under the hump is 5 ft. 8 in. Cramped Quarters The lack of light and air from a sliding hatch has always put me off the Contessa. I am 5 ft. 10 in. and have lived aboard on sailboats with less than standing headroom. But each has had a sliding hatch where I could stand upright with feet on the cabin sole and my head poking out the companionway hatch. I enjoy surveying the 360 degrees around the horizon from this vantage point. As well, the Contessa employs a raked cabin bulkhead to allow one to climb the companionway steps without bumping one's head on the coachroof. I also dislike the long stack of raked drop-boards, as they tend to let in more rain and spray than shorter, vertical boards, and must be kept closed more that the vertical type. The boat feels closed-in, a condition many owners -- and later the builder -- have rectified with the addition of an opening amidships hatch. This cramped space reminds me of a comment made by a Frenchman who observed as he visited my British-built yacht: "Les anglais," he nodded knowingly as he surveyed the tight quarters of the main salon, "ils se cachent du temps!" (translation: The English hide from the weather.) Canadian Version The interior, however, feels safe, protected and cocoon-like but definitely not open and airy. The Canadian version of the 26 was pulled from the same British-made hull and deck moulds until hull 300, in 1983. Then Gary Bannister, the principal partner of J.J. Taylor since 1979, redesigned the deck mould and some of the interior moulds. To increase headroom, he lowered the floor by lengthening the hump at the aft end of the coachroof to extend farther into the cabin. He also added a amidships hatch for increased light and ventilation. Other changes at the time included the addition of an anchor locker at the bow and a switch to cast lead ballast instead of cast iron, and the shifting of the water and waste tanks. The updated version also had a teak and holly sole. Power Plant The boat always had the option of an inboard diesel engine, with the 6.6-hp Petter first installed-- then, later, the 7-hp Faryman was standard. Halyards were lead aft on the updated version, with clutches and winches at the aft end of the coachroof. A third set of gudgeons and pintles was added to support the long blade of the rudder. Taylor 26 It was in 1984 that the Contessa had her name changed to the J.J. Taylor 26. "The name change made no difference to the buyers of the boat," said Gary Bannister. "And the Taylor name had always been associated with the boat." According to Bannister, Jeremy Rogers had gone bankrupt and the British Contessa moulds were destroyed in a fire. The company that subsequently purchased the rights to build the boat in the U.K., also claimed the rights in North America. After some legal wrangling, Bannister found that he had every right to continue to build the boat, only he was unwilling to suffer through a lengthy -- and costly -- international dispute. So, he simply changed the boat's name and continued production. Ironically, the Contessa never went back into production in the U.K. Viki de Kleer of Toronto is the sole owner of Mollyhawk, hull number 163, built in 1975. As an avid sailor who often single-hands her boat, Viki is one of the few Canadian sailors to hold the prestigious Royal Yachting Association's Yachtmaster's certificate - a much more rigorous level of competence than the Canadian Yachting Association's Offshore standard. During her 18 years of ownership, she has added a amidships deck hatch, and the diesel has been changed to a Yanmar 9-hp. Viki also replaced the split fiddle-block mainsheet system with a traveller mounted across the aft end of the cockpit and supported on a stainless tube above the tiller. De Kleer says this arrangement not only gives better sail control, but also keeps the mainsheet from running across the cockpit. She has also added roller reefing to the headsail and a jackstay to the foredeck for setting a storm jib. A bow anchor roller now pokes out at the starboard side of the forestay. "There was always water on the side decks, as the scuppers were not the lowest point of the deck," she observed. New scuppers, at the right level, are now retro-fitted. De Kleer also had a third gudgeon and pintle added to the rudder, and a shoe is now bolted at the heel of the keel to overlap with the foot of the rudder. This addition prevents floating lines from snagging in the gap between the rudder and keel. Varuna is the best-known Taylor 26, sailed around the world by Tania Aebi, the youngest woman to solo circumnavigate. Her stories were often featured in a U.S. sailing magazine in the mid-'80s, and were later published in her book Maiden Voyage. In all, there were about 400 Contessa and Taylor 26s built in Canada, and the last rolled out of the factory just before it closed in 1990. "As a swan song for the company," said Bannister, "we constructed the 14 friendly gargoyles that grace the corners of the Skydome in Toronto." Micheal Snow, the artist who created the figures, sculpted them in foam. Then the boat builders at J.J. Taylor fiberglassed and finished them. "It was a fun last project for the company," said Bannister. The Contessa/Taylor 26 is a much admired institution in Ontario, and its long production run make this boat a common sight. Its loyal owners are traditionalists and keen sailors who appreciate the Contessa's easy-to-handle and dependable performance.
J
Jack Tyler
There are some great choices...
Hello, Mandy... I know you want us to stay away from "non" full keels so I'll restrain myself until the end. First, I'd encourage you to seek out a fantastic sailing sloop: Per Brohall's Vega 27 sloop. It is relatively light in displacement, has a full keel with attached rudder, originally came with an MD6B Volvo diesel and feathering prop (w-a-y ahead of its time...!) and has a very good at-sea layout. It should be in your price range and, since Albin Marine was still in Sweden at that time and made several thousand of these, they should be easy to locate in the UK. It is not a large boat by today's standards (similar in concept and layout to the Contessa 26) but is exceptionally well engineered and, most importantly, it is a delight to sail. So well balanced that I've sailed for hours in one, on all points of sail, using only sheet-to-tiller steering. (That's a kind of self-steering that costs the price of a little surgical tubing vs. the fancier, more pricey windvanes of today). Vegas have crossed oceans many, many times and a number have circumnavigated. The layout, while simple and spartan, is very functional at sea. Engine access is superb (the cockpit sole is removeable but normally well sealed) as is cockpit locker storage. The Contessa belongs on any list of this kind simply due to the accomplishments of numerous sisterships and the Folkboat lineage. Personally, I find it a bit too confining and too tender. But spending a little time below and perhaps bumming a sea trial will tell you what you think. By now, 3,000+ Alberg 30's have been built and there are probably a handful at any one time located in the EU after being sailed across via Bermuda and the Azores. It's a very basic boat and, at 30' LOA, larger than the Vega. Personally, I find it a bit tender and the construction (done in Whitby, Ontario, Canada) pedestrian (vs. the Vega's elegant engineering). I'm doubtful you could find an Alberg 30 well equipped enough to cross the Atlantic but priced within your budget, but I'd suggest you look. Again, very simple, functional layout that works at sea and in port, lots of cockpit locker space, and Carl Alberg's sweet, sweet lines. OK, I understand you want a full keel...but do yourself a favor and seek out at least one Albin Ballad to examine. This is built by the same company and to the same standards as the Vega but it is much faster, more comfortable given it's a 30 footer, and with a better layout (at least IMO). These boats routinely race in the North Sea; they are built very, very well. Yet they were built simply and, unadorned by gobs of electronics and sails, you should find one in your price range. There's a gem of a Ballad for sale right now on the Great Lakes in the U.S. for your price, and it reportedly looks barely used. PLUS it comes with its own trailer (as they store boats out of the water there). How about returning here when you find a few boats you like and give us a report? It's always fun to find out what someone is *really* looking for! Jack St. Pete, FL, USA jack_patrica@yahoo.com
Hello, Mandy... I know you want us to stay away from "non" full keels so I'll restrain myself until the end. First, I'd encourage you to seek out a fantastic sailing sloop: Per Brohall's Vega 27 sloop. It is relatively light in displacement, has a full keel with attached rudder, originally came with an MD6B Volvo diesel and feathering prop (w-a-y ahead of its time...!) and has a very good at-sea layout. It should be in your price range and, since Albin Marine was still in Sweden at that time and made several thousand of these, they should be easy to locate in the UK. It is not a large boat by today's standards (similar in concept and layout to the Contessa 26) but is exceptionally well engineered and, most importantly, it is a delight to sail. So well balanced that I've sailed for hours in one, on all points of sail, using only sheet-to-tiller steering. (That's a kind of self-steering that costs the price of a little surgical tubing vs. the fancier, more pricey windvanes of today). Vegas have crossed oceans many, many times and a number have circumnavigated. The layout, while simple and spartan, is very functional at sea. Engine access is superb (the cockpit sole is removeable but normally well sealed) as is cockpit locker storage. The Contessa belongs on any list of this kind simply due to the accomplishments of numerous sisterships and the Folkboat lineage. Personally, I find it a bit too confining and too tender. But spending a little time below and perhaps bumming a sea trial will tell you what you think. By now, 3,000+ Alberg 30's have been built and there are probably a handful at any one time located in the EU after being sailed across via Bermuda and the Azores. It's a very basic boat and, at 30' LOA, larger than the Vega. Personally, I find it a bit tender and the construction (done in Whitby, Ontario, Canada) pedestrian (vs. the Vega's elegant engineering). I'm doubtful you could find an Alberg 30 well equipped enough to cross the Atlantic but priced within your budget, but I'd suggest you look. Again, very simple, functional layout that works at sea and in port, lots of cockpit locker space, and Carl Alberg's sweet, sweet lines. OK, I understand you want a full keel...but do yourself a favor and seek out at least one Albin Ballad to examine. This is built by the same company and to the same standards as the Vega but it is much faster, more comfortable given it's a 30 footer, and with a better layout (at least IMO). These boats routinely race in the North Sea; they are built very, very well. Yet they were built simply and, unadorned by gobs of electronics and sails, you should find one in your price range. There's a gem of a Ballad for sale right now on the Great Lakes in the U.S. for your price, and it reportedly looks barely used. PLUS it comes with its own trailer (as they store boats out of the water there). How about returning here when you find a few boats you like and give us a report? It's always fun to find out what someone is *really* looking for! Jack St. Pete, FL, USA jack_patrica@yahoo.com
M
Mandy
Thanks once again!
Thanks everyone again for the help. Certainly got a few ideas to be researching now and it's all very interesting. Think i might get that little bit further on my quest now! We will get that boat!!! Thanks again Mandy East Coast England
Thanks everyone again for the help. Certainly got a few ideas to be researching now and it's all very interesting. Think i might get that little bit further on my quest now! We will get that boat!!! Thanks again Mandy East Coast England
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