Lithium battery question

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,782
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Been reading a lot on the subject as I am planning on upgrading soon. I’ve read Charging Marine Lithium Battery Banks | Nordkyn Design many times along with Rod’s How To, facebook and cruising forums. There is a lot to absorb. To those who have been running lithium for a while, I’m curious how often if ever have you experienced a battery disconnect event?
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,471
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I've been running LFP full time for about 6 months. I'm still trying to figure out the BMS, unfortunately the company that made the batteries (KiloVault) is no longer.

When motoring, the BMS will disconnect when the battery is fully charged or near fully charged. It seems to taper the charge acceptance before disconnecting. When motoring there is always a load on the system, instruments, AIS, VHF, AP, etc. So I don't think the regulator notices the disconnect. To the best of my knowledge I have never had a disconnect at a high charging rate. Nonetheless I do have a Balmar alternator protection device installed.

Thanks for the link, I'll have to spend some reading it.
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,086
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Nonetheless I do have a Balmar alternator protection device installed.
I don't get out much but I'm wondering why you couldn't just have a small load of, say 1.0A resistive load permanently attached to your alt. output to avoid having the alt. run with 0.0A should you experience a disconnect while charging.
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,471
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I don't get out much but I'm wondering why you couldn't just have a small load of, say 1.0A resistive load permanently attached to your alt. output to avoid having the alt. run with 0.0A should you experience a disconnect while charging.
The issue isn't the alternator running with no load, if there is no load the there is no circuit, can't make electricity if those electrons can get back to where they came from.

The answer is in Ohm's Law, E = IR. Voltage is equal to the amperage times resistance. When the resistance (load) goes from some number to infinity, the voltage spikes, because anything times infinity is infinity. Alternator innards can't handle infinite voltage. The Alternator protection module simply sits there minding its own business until there is a voltage spike at which it provides a load and dumps the voltage to ground thereby protecting the innards and saving the alternator. How the module does this is mostly a mystery to me.
 
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Bob S

.
Sep 27, 2007
1,782
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
I'm still trying to figure out the BMS, unfortunately the company that made the batteries (KiloVault) is no longer.
I bought a 325w solar panel from Alte. I could drive there. I was planning on buying their Kilovault batteries but they stopped selling them. They were bought by another company, I spoke with them hoping they would continue selling batteries. I ended up buying 2 300ah Vatrers from Maine's link on black Friday less than what I paid for 6 GC batteries 8 years ago.
I'm curious what app you use for the BMS. I set mine up with Overkill Solar. I'm assuming most batteries being sold now are using JBD BMS's. The Overkill Solar app can configure a lot of features in the BMS. Have you tried that?
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,471
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The batteries I have a built in BMS, I really don't have access to the settings. In light use it seems like it's trying to keep the SOC at about 70%. The OverKill looks like it is for batteries without a BMS and homebuilt batteries.
 

colemj

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Jul 13, 2004
268
Dolphin Catamaran Dolphin 460 Mystic, CT
Our lithium bank is almost 9yrs old and we have never had a disconnect event. Like mentioned, a properly designed system will never disconnect outside of preventing a catastrophic failure like an internal cell going bad or a charging source going rouge. The whole bank disconnect should be considered a last effort to save the system, and not a routine event when the batteries are full.

Instead, either the charging sources should be set to shut themselves down appropriately, or the BMS should control a charging bus or the charging source itself and shut only that down. If you have an internally regulated alternator without any control of its charging and its regulator is set higher than necessary, then either the BMS should be able to cut its field, or the alternator should be connected to the start battery and a programmable DC-DC charger used.

Same for the opposite direction with loads, where inverters, reefer/freezers, and similar things that can be programmed to shut themselves off before the BMS needs to, and installing low voltage disconnects to other equipment (or DC panel).

This is where one needs to be careful with lithium drop-ins. Few if any have the above abilities, so more care must be made with design in other parts of the system to compensate. If you have these batteries in parallel, once one shuts down, the problem escalates on the others and a quick chain reaction leaves you with a dark boat. There are many reports of just this experience with them, and I would consider that a safety issue.

Mark
 
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Johann

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Jun 3, 2004
457
Leopard 39 Pensacola
We have had our main house 12V LFP install for just over 4 years and no BMS disconnects, except for intentional LVC during capacity testing.

I recently installed a 48V system as a generator replacement and that battery is an Epoch. Unlike most BMSs which disconnect on high voltage, the Epoch will also disconnect on full charge. So when it is above a certain voltage (3.425Vpc) and charging below about 3A, it will turn off the charge FETs. This is an issue if you can’t program the charger to stop absorption based on battery tail current. The Multiplus doesn’t support that and has a minimum absorption of 1h so we initially had BMS full charge disconnects (charge FETs only, discharge remain on) and the voltage spike.

My solution for the Multi is an absorption of 54.8V (3.425Vpc) which prevents the disconnects, but takes 2h of absorption to get reasonable near 100% SOC. Fortunately for alternator charging the Arco Zeus can exit on tail current, but I just got that up and running so no experience with full charges yet.