Link 2000-R, Freedom 10 "Gotcha."

[jviss]

@Stu Jackson , I recall some time ago you described a "gotcha" condition with the Link and Freedom combo, that would improperly terminate charging and after repeated such events, ratchet-down the useable capacity of the house bank.

At the time I read it for academic interest, but now I have a Link 2000-R and Freedom 10, and I think I have this problem.

New Interstate 27D Deep Cycle batteries, two of them. It seems they dissipate too quickly, and charge up too quickly; from 12.1V to full (switching to float) in 1:45.

I understand I should set final current to 1% and final voltage to 15V to avoid the gotcha.

The question is, how do I reset the system to the Amp-hour capacity? (These are 95Ah at the 20 hour discharge rate.)

Any other advice is welcome, as well.

Thanks,

jv

 

[Stu Jackson]

jv,

Just got back from a mini cruise, out of touch.

Here ya go:

For everyone installing a battery monitor: The "Gotcha Algorithm" thread, a "MUST READ"

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4922.0.html

DEFAULTS are factory settings that are made to be modified to suit your setup.

Also read this one:

Programming a Battery Monitor (by Maine Sail)

https://marinehowto.com/programming-a-battery-monitor/

Good luck, it's easy. Any more ?s, ask away.

 

[jviss]

Thanks Stu.

 

[jviss]

So, I set the Link 2000 to "CHARGED V" = 15.0, and "CHARGED %" = 1.

The batts seem to charge up too quickly, but then, just before "float" I'm at an acceptance voltage of 14.40V, and about 2.4A. I assume it's flipping to float when it hits 2A, which is 1% of the 200AH capacity of the bank.

Stupid question: may I assume that at 14.40V and 1A, I'm fully charged? Should I reset the AH at this point?

Thanks.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Stupid question: may I assume that at 14.40V and 1A, I'm fully charged? Should I reset the AH at this point?

Not at all, never any of those kinds of questions, this subject has been discussed endlessly, no reason not to keep it going.

Yes & No. <2% at absorbtion voltage is what "the experts" tell us is a full bank. However, I would "work" with your Link a bit before YOU reset it. See what IT does, first, before you do it manually.

It also depends on what your boating habits are. Do you usually plug in overnight even after a daysail? Or are you further afield regularly and because of the "steadily diminishing law of returns" on charging batteries with an alternator if you don't have solar, you need to plug in during a trip and don't like to stay in marinas, and so try to shorten plug-in time (like Rich in the example with his generator)?

I also recommend re-reading both the Freedom and Link manuals. A couple of times. There's a LOT in both about charging and how the two work together.

The batts seem to charge up too quickly

Could you explain what you mean by too quickly?

just before "float" I'm at an acceptance voltage of 14.40V, and about 2.4A.

Of course, that's what's supposed to happen: target voltage with declining amperage.

 

[jviss]

I never plug in. No solar on this boat yet, so the only source of charing is the main engine. It's a Linr 200-R, with the Link controlled regulator. It's a pretty bog alternator, like 125A or so.

I'm thinking now that the batteries are just really not that good. They are new Interstate Deep Discharge 27D's, a pair. Supposedly about 95AH each.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I never plug in. No solar on this boat yet, so the only source of charing is the main engine. It's a Linr 200-R, with the Link controlled regulator. It's a pretty bog alternator, like 125A or so.

I'm thinking now that the batteries are just really not that good. They are new Interstate Deep Discharge 27D's, a pair. Supposedly about 95AH each.

Maine Sail has cautioned us about three major issues over the years:

1) D batteries are rarely, if ever, true deep cycle

2) Alternator ONLY charging almost always results in chronically UNDERcharged house banks

3) Batteries don't die, they are murdered!!!

jviss, you can draw your own conclusions about how you got there. We don't know how you use your boat.

If you only sail on weekends, a modest solar panel could fill you up during the week you're away. And do MUCH more to increase the life of your expensive battery bank. Indeed, Maine Sail has been preaching this for decades. It's all on his website, and with links to his and many more discussions on my Electrical Systems 101 topic, here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html

But, I was under the impression that you've been reading this boat electrical stuff since you've been here on sbo. Sorry if I was wrong.

If you choose, you may care to answer the questions I asked before, like, for example, what is "charged too quickly" mean? For most of us, that is GOOD!!!

Your boat, your choice.

 

[Maine Sail]

So, I set the Link 2000 to "CHARGED V" = 15.0, and "CHARGED %" = 1.

The batts seem to charge up too quickly.....

Stupid question: may I assume that at 14.40V and 1A, I'm fully charged? Should I reset the AH at this point?

Thanks.

If the batteries are sulfated from PSOC use then no they may not be as full as you assume they are. An indication they are sulfated is charging too quickly. Healthy batteries like yours should take 6.5-10+ hours to get from 50% SOC to 100% SOC with the bulk of that duration being voltage limited. If they are getting to 1% acceptance quickly, they are sulfated.

 

[jviss]

If they are getting to 1% acceptance quickly, they are sulfated.

That is the most likely explanation, I'm afraid. Perhaps I will try an equalization charge for now, until I can replace them.

As I said, I bought them in May, and always left the boat with them (apparently) fully charged. I suspect they were sulfated when I got them, maybe on the shelf too long.

 

[jviss]

for example, what is "charged too quickly" mean?

Hi Stu,

I meant that according to my intuition, going from less than 50% SOC to A=1%C at 14.4V in 1:15 is too quick, meaning the batteries have reduced capacity. (They would only remain in bulk for about 10 minutes.)

Solar is in the plan, but not at the top of the list yet. This experience may indeed push it to the top. I'm planning on a pair of flexible, 120W panels on the bimini. I have a Morningstar charge controller I will use, unless I decide to upgrade to an MPPT controller.

Also, the new fridge compressor/condenser set is installed in a weird place, so it doesn't get enough fresh air, in my opinion; it's recirculating a lot of hot air. This causes it to run inefficiently, I think. It's short-cycling. That doesn't help.

 

[jviss]

But, I was under the impression that you've been reading this boat electrical stuff since you've been here on sbo. Sorry if I was wrong.

I have been, it's just that when this kind of thing happens to you, you go through the phases of grief:

• Denial
• Anger
• Bargaining
• Depression
• Acceptance

I think I'm in between bargaining and depression now.

 

[jssailem]

@jviss just because someone once wrote about stages of grief does not mean you have to go through every step in everything you do. In part the idea of identifying stages was an effort to help individuals in grief find a path.
Since you are cognizant of your situation why not decide to jump to acceptance straight away. And then identify a process that will improve your situation and act upon it.

 

[jviss]

Yea, well, it's new batteries that I need. I don't have the height needed for golf car batteries, or some of the "deluxe" flooded batts. I need to find the best deep cycle batteries in the 24D or 27D form factor. I might be able to fit as many as 4 of them, 3 for sure.

 

[Maine Sail]

Yea, well, it's new batteries that I need. I don't have the height needed for golf car batteries, or some of the "deluxe" flooded batts. I need to find the best deep cycle batteries in the 24D or 27D form factor. I might be able to fit as many as 4 of them, 3 for sure.

Trojan SCS series or US Battery DCXC are about the closest you'll come to deep cycle. Still not deep cycle but better than most, or you're into AGM or GEL..

 

[jviss]

Trojan SCS series or US Battery DCXC are about the closest you'll come to deep cycle. Still not deep cycle but better than most, or you're into AGM or GEL..

Thank you! I was looking at the Trojan 27TMX, but it appears the SCS200 has slightly higher capacity.

 

[jviss]

Fortunately found a dealer/distributor for Trojan that's close to my house and has the SCS200 in stock, $236.50 plus an $18 core charge (any like size battery will do as a core exchange). (They are in Auburn, MA.)

This is a BCI Group 27 size, rated at 115AH at the 20 hr. rate.

They specify a "daily charge" voltage of 14.8V, and float at 13.2V. I can't hit both of these simultaneously on my Link 2000. I think the only way of changing the acceptance and float voltages is by selecting a "static" temp compensation value. In this case it would be to say the batteries are at 50º F, which will give me 14.8 and 13.9 - not perfect. But, I don't ever float for long, unless it's a long day of motoring.

Any ideas or suggestions, other than replacing the Freedom 10/Link 2000-R system?