Leroy Somer Windlass solenoid replacement/re-scheme

[galynd]

I purchased my boat a few years ago knowing the windlass was not working because of the solenoid. I replaced the two-directional solenoid with an automotive solenoid which only switches on in one direction. This was a temporary fix because of the expense of the two way solenoid (near $200). Now I'm ready for my windlass to work both directions. Attached is pics of the schematic and the current solenoid and wiring. Is it possible to utilize another automotive solenoid to make the engine run in reverse? If I'm reading the schematic correctly the Pos becomes Neg and the Neg becomes Pos to reverse the motor. Thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[JohnShannon]

Sure no problem, you need 4 single pole solenoids. The up button controls two of them and the down button controls the other two. For sake of discussion lets say the motor has a red lead and a black lead, and when the red lead is +12 and the black lead is grounded the up direction is selected. When the up button is pushed one solonoid connects the +12 to the red(up direction of the motor) and the other solenoid connects the black to gnd. The down direction wiring is the opposite, so when the down button is pushed a solonoid connects the black to +12 and another solenoid connects the red of the motor to GND causing it to run backwards.

Oh and by the way don't press up and down at the same time, you will short the battery to GND.

Hmm $200 isn't looking so bad

 

[galynd]

Thanks Shannon. You're right. It might be worth the $200..

 

[mitiempo]

You do not need 4 solenoids!

You can create a control with 2 Cole Hersee 24401 solenoids.

Here is a link to the wiring diagram http://www.colehersee.com/home/motor_reversing_diagram/

 

[galynd]

Capta,
Are you sure about that? I see only one red and black cable coming from that battery and only one red and black going to the motor...

 

[galynd]

Looking at your diagram, that is what it shows. Mine is the same. If you only have two wires to the motor (my previous windlass was like this), it is a one way motor and you should not try to reverse the polarity of the wires. It will only operate to pull the anchor up and you use the brake and freefall the anchor down..

Then why the two switches - up and down, built on top of the windlass. It is my understanding that some electric motors have only 2 cables. When the polarity reverses the motor reverses. Attached is a wiring diagram for a 2-wire reversing solenoid. Would this not work??

 

[mitiempo]

Looking at your diagram, that is what it shows. Mine is the same. If you only have two wires to the motor (my previous windlass was like this), it is a one way motor and you should not try to reverse the polarity of the wires. It will only operate to pull the anchor up and you use the brake and freefall the anchor down..

Both diagrams clearly show both up and down. Some windlasses have a ground and 2 positives at the motor and a few have only 2 wires that require polarity reversal to change direction. This appears to be one of the latter.

 

[Rich Stidger]

Simply put- if the windlass motor has 3 leads, then one is common and the other two operate the motor in forward or reverse depending upon which of the two wires is energized. If the windlass motor has 2 leads, then the 12V power is applied in one polarity for forward and the opposite polarity for reverse. These two configurations use different reversing solenoids to accomplish the correct switching. I think the 2-wire motor does use a more expensive solenoid than the 3-wire motor.

Your posted wiring diagram shows a 3-wire motor, but you said that there are only 2 wires on the motor. If both of these are true then your wiring diagram does not match what you actually have on your boat.

 

[galynd]

Gentlemen... I hate to keep beating this horse but doesn't my original posting show a two wire motor? I see two cables going to the motor. There are 3 wires coming from the switch, which perhaps makes it confusing.

 

[galynd]

Sorry, if the thumbnail doesn't open properly go to the first post..

 

[Rich Stidger]

I hate pictorial wiring diagrams. I was confused/mistaken- I thought that the pictorial of the remote control was actually the motor. If I had read the labels on the pictures I would not have misunderstood.

So you have a motor that has two cables. That means that the solenoid must reverse the polarity of the battery to operate the motor in both directions. You cannot just add one more auto solenoid because you need to switch both motor cables to each battery terminal. You would need FOUR single pole solenoids to accomplish this task.
Just buy the $200 double-pole, double-throw, center-off solenoid and be done with it. (Imagine- this advice coming from me who will jump through hoops to save 25 cents...)

 

[mitiempo]

Shouldn't be that expensive. A while back I purchased and installed 2 Cole Hersee 24401 double pole solenoids for a total of just over $100 Cdn. I installed them on a Rule davit motor with the same arrangement as the po's. 2 wire motor requiring reversal of polarity for up/down operation. That is what these solenoids are designed for. Here is the wiring diagram.

 

[Jan11]

You had better do your homework. The CH 24401 solenoids don't have the current rating you need.

 

[mitiempo]

You had better do your homework. The CH 24401 solenoids don't have the current rating you need.

That depends totally on the wattage of the motor - which has not been posted as far as I can tell.

 

[Jan11]

That depends totally on the wattage of the motor - which has not been posted as far as I can tell.

Very true, but I'm not familiar with any windlass that draws less than 35 amps. Got one in your dinghy maybe?
That said, one could check with Cole Hersee for an intermittent rating... homework, eh?
http://www.colehersee.com/home/item/cat/198/24401/
24401 12V Insulated DPST Solenoid
Normally Off and Normally On.
Special application: for forward and reverse systems in electric golf carts, garden tractors, fork lift trucks, winches, etc.
Continuous Duty, Normally Closed contacts 35A, Normally Open contacts 85A.

 

[mitiempo]

In my application - davits - I replicated what was there originally. Davits are hardly continuous duty, usually 15 seconds or less each way. In my search this was also the only solution I found.

A windlass is hardly a continuous duty item itself.
I do not think a windlass contactor can be purchased off the shelf for a 2 wire motor - at least I haven't seen any. Any windlass I have seen uses a 3 wire motor and contactors for those are common. It is also easy to create one with 2 single pole solenoids.

What is your solution?

 

[galynd]

Guys. Thanks for you replies. This is the solenoid I'm considering. It cost $95 from anchorlift.

 

[Dack]

If the motor only has two studs (a permanent magnet motor) the cheaper reversing solenoid will work and can be bought on eBay for und 25 dollars.

12 Volt DC Reversing Solenoid Intermittent Duty

24450
12 Volt DC Reversing Solenoid
"Used for permanent magnet motors Only"
Such as winches,Hoist Any Reversible permanent magnet motor.
No need to use the (4) SPST Relays or the (2) SPDT Relays
with this New Reversing Solenoid .
Voltage: 12V DC. Max operating voltage 14.5V DC.
DPDT intermittent duty.
Contacts: Copper
Flat Base type bracket Large studs: 5/16" -24
Coil terminals: two blades
Coil type: common ground
Two integral solenoids provide dynamic braking
for permanent magnet motors when neither coil is energized.
12V DC 75A make and break, max On time 5min.
12V DC 125A make and break, max On time 30sec.
12V DC 150A make and break, max On time 0.5sec.
Allow 5min Off after max On time.
Use with a SPDT momentary toggle or rocker switch:
Toggle Switch (such as 55021)

*Click Here For Drawing of the 24450 *

*We Suggest That You Use Circuit Protection For The Main Battery Feed To The Relay*
*And For the Relay Coil Activation Circuits.*



http://www.texasindustrialelectric.com/relays.asp