LED nav lights on 192/222?

[Brian S]

I've been trying to internet research LED nav lights for my 192. If I'm going to get a battery to keep on board, I might as well retro-fit to have it last as long as it can on a charge.

What I believe I have discovered is that replacing the stern and mast steaming light with a drop in replacement LED bulb is possible. But they don't appear to make drop-in bi-color lights. The white LEDs aren't intense enough to shine through the colored lens. That, and white LEDs tend towards a more blue light, so green would look wrong anyway. This is further complicated in that most bi-color LED replacement fixtures I've seen are deck mounted. Our 192/222 mounts to a vertical plate welded to the bow pulpit.

If anyone has found a viable bulb replacement or new fixture, please let me know...

Thanks,
Brian

 

[jimmyb]

Left info at Precision sight.

jimmyb

 

[Brian S]

Ok, so Jimmyb has let me know that Precisions use an Aqua Signal Series 25 bi-color nav light fixture. Doctorled.com makes a bi-color Polar Star 25 LED replacement for the Series 25 fixture. They also state that green or red LEDs should be used behind a green or red or white lens, but not white LED behind green/red lens. (eg. - put a green LED behind green or white lens, right, OK??)

Further poking around at D&R Marine shows this replacement fixture: http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DR35-47

Now, I'm starting to think it's a Perko like this: http://perko.com/catalog/category/navigation_lights_under_20_meters/product/930/

And, unfortunately, I don't find an LED fixture of similar design on the Perko website.

I haven't had it apart yet, but I'm thinking it's a bayonet socket bulb based on the hint of bulb I see on D&R Marine's pic. However, looking on Perko's site, they say their fixture uses a 3/8" by 1 1/8" long festoon bulb. I have written an email to Perko asking if they make this fixture design in LED, but I don't expect an answer (I seldom get answers to emails sent to addresses found on websites. And never if it's a web form...)

But, in the worst case scenario, I can replace the whole fixture with an Aqua Signal Series 25, and add one of these bi-color Polar Star 25 bulbs... Defender sells just the housing for $22 http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|65136|295769|320397|320408&id=984900 and the Dr. LED Polar Star 25 bulb for $42. So for $64 and shipping, I can reduce draw for the bi-color light. Replacing the white bulbs on stern and mast steaming light will be easy, there are plenty of warm white LED drop in bulbs available.

Gahhhhh! The weekend can't come soon enough for me to be able to get working on the boat again! And, the temperature might break out of the 40s for me, too!

Thanks, Jimmyb!

Brian

 

[justsomeguy]

Maybe this website can help some. Their prices seem reasonable, too.

http://cruisingsolutions.com/category/shop/lighting/navigation-lighting/

 

[jepomer]

Changing the whole light assembly is the best way to go when converting to LED. The construction is more rugged and "encapsulated".

When replacing just the bulb with an LED insert, the contacts will remain the weakest link. And the cost is very much the same as the whole unit.

I still haven't yet seen a regulation that requires the LED and/or lamp assembly to be USCG approved (please direct me to the actual regulations - not just a forum discussion). But it does have to met the USCG visibility/color at a specified distance.

 

[Joe11688]

You're absolutely right John. If the light isn't USCG approved, it isn't worth installing.

I have to respectfully disagree with Carl Lane.

I not only have found the ideal boat, but I improved it and made it better by doing the modifications to it through the years.

 

[shanker]

I was under the impression that if you are replacing the bulbs with LED on a fixture with a colored lens, the LED should be a 'warm' light not 'cool white'. I have done some testing and there is a difference. Does it meet USCG requirements, I have not found an answer for that.

 

[jepomer]

Researching the legal requirements for "USCG Certified" navigation lights I have finally located references beyond forum comments:

From - USCG Boating Safety Circular 85 (March 2007)
www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/recalls/BSC85_1.pdf

"As of November 1, 2003, 33 CFR 183.810 requires recreational vessel manufacturers, distributors, and dealers installing navigation lights in new recreational vessels to meet the requirements for certification and markings. Coast Guard regulations require navigation lights to be certified to the applicable requirements of ABYC A-16 (or equivalent standard) by an independent laboratory listed by the Coast Guard. Lights meeting this requirement must carry labels indicating compliance. Specifically, the light must have a permanent and indelible label, that is visible without removing or disassembling the light containing the following information:
a. “USCG Approval 33 CFR 183.810;”
b. “Meets (insert standard – ABYC A-16, or equivalent)...;”
c. “Tested by (insert CG listed lab performing test)...;”
d. Name of manufacturer;
e. Model number;
f. Visibility of light in nautical miles;
g. Date on which light was type-tested; and
h. Identification and specification of bulb used in
compliance test."

"Aftermarket light fixture installations (those done by owners) are not affected by the above requirements. Some light fixture manufacturers have elected to market their navigation lights only for the aftermarket."

====

In summary:
• New boats built in November 1, 2003 and newer are required to have USCG approved navigation lights installed by manufacturers
• Aftermarket light installations made by owners do not have that restriction (hence the availability of the non-USCG certified LED lights)
• Manufacturers and resellers of aftermarket LED lights publish a "CYA" statement for legal reasons

The current LED lights and replacement bulb assemblies offered for sale have a high probability of passing the certification test, but have not undergone the full testing.

Since I do little night sailing and low electrical demand, I have left the non-LED bulbs for navigation lights in one of my boats. The other boat is being renovated and will have certified LED navigation lights installed. Both have solar panels for recharging the house battery controlling lighting, communication, navigation.

 

[Brian S]

Has anyone located a rear mount (forward facing) style LED bi-color fixture suitable for bow pulpit bracket mount, roughly 3" high by 2.5" wide?

I have found that Aqua Signal doesn't make Series 25 size in LED. Hella makes one slightly larger than the AS Series 25. Perko verifies they don't have anything sized like the O'day OEM. Attwood doesn't appear to have anything either. Cruising Solutions has this LED bi-color fixture, but I think it might be a bit large for the small O'day, similar in size to the Hella. http://cruisingsolutions.com/bi-colour-navigation-led-light/

Looks like it will be a new Aqua Signal Series 25 with Dr. LED Polar Star 25 bulb, and connections be damned! Actually, that fixture can be swapped out any time after launch. What I really need to do it to take apart the steaming lamp on the mast, and source the replacement for that. Don't want to shimmy up there once the mast is stepped... Though with a good gin pole, it should be easy enough to lower on the water...

I'm really surprised the larger manufacturers haven't all begun to switch to LED yet. Is it because of USCG testing, or lack thereof?

Brian

 

[jepomer]

I'm really surprised the larger manufacturers haven't all begun to switch to LED yet. Is it because of USCG testing, or lack thereof?

Brian

Testing for any standard does take both time and money. The volumes are probably not sufficient yet and the cost will be added to the already high cost of the LED bulbs.

I haven't found that type of LED lamp yet, either.

 

[Brian S]

Final results:

I used a Cruising Solutions warm white festoon for my Perko bi-color bow light: http://cruisingsolutions.com/navigation-light-44-mm-cone-end-festoon/

and Dr. LED warm white festoons for my stern light and mast steaming light: http://doctorled.com/p77.htm

The original incandescent festoon had a copper sleeve on the top of the bulb in the bow light. I wound up using this little sleeve, as the bulb was a bit short for the contact. I suppose I could have bent the contacts some.

The Dr. LED went right in to the stern fitting.

I am in the process of heat shrink tubing my steaming light wires where they exit the deck fitting, because the insulation was cracked. I'll be replacing the 3 pole connector with a 2 pole flat trailer style connector I found at West Marine. I'll use heat shrink crimp connectors with adhesive for this.

When I hooked up the battery, I found that my interior dome light works too. I don't think the 2 previous owners ever had a battery in the boat, so I guess an incandescent bulb won't burn out if it just sits there forever... I have bought a multitude of stick-on LED battery operated lights for the cabin, so maybe I won't convert the dome light to LED quite yet. Actually, if I were to convert that, I think I should make it red LED for night vision....

Thanks,
Brian

 

[topcat0399]

Someday the prices for "Marine" Leds might actually come near the earth.

Seems right now I have to choose between a new main sail or or upgrading to LEDs.

grrrr

 

[Brian S]

Yep, I think I'm $70 bucks in to the 3 LED nav bulbs. And considering another $20-28 plus shipping to put an LED in the internal dome light. Depends if I want to just put a $20 red Dr. LED non-indexed bayonet style lamp in there, or go fancy and get a universal red/white from Cruisingsolutions.com... Decisions decisions. Mind you, I've already bought three other battery powered LED surface lights for the cabin... I just can't stop the upgrades!!!!!

Brian

 

[Brian S]

Dang it, doncha know I just ordered that red LED dome light? Heck, I was looking it up, and I just pulled the trigger anyway...

Brian

 

[estopa]

I can't find my old threads but I replaced all my lighting with "SMD LED" and it was the best thing I did. I got them from eBay. Search "SMD LED" for your particular size. I was able to retrofit them into the existing lighting enclosers my 222 had.

I used these for my Mast top lighting and rear light - http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-LED-Car...Parts_Accessories&hash=item257bcf6bdf&vxp=mtr

And these for the front nav light - http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-31mm-12...Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f7b6be20&vxp=mtr

Again just search eBay for "SMD LED" include the size bulb or Festoon needed.

 

[Brian S]

Oh, wow, Estopa, that's hella cheaper than what I paid! Doh! And it looks like there are more LEDs on the festoons. Ah, well, mine are bright enough, and what's done is paid for

Brian