I just got a new rig put on my 1981 Hunter 27 (owned it about 6 months), and have been restoring it. It was pretty neglected, but has come together quite a bit, but... When I took my 27 out sailing a few days ago, the bilge had about 2 gallons of water in it after sailing. I pumped the bilges and compartments between the bilges prior to going out. It looked like two of the middle keel bolts were weeping, but it must get worse when the boat is on a heel. I do not have a diesel in my 27, and no leakage is coming from any of the thru-hulls or scupper fittings. As an added note, there is a low pitched thump occasionally when the boat gets on a heel (oil canning??). I checked the keel bolts and was able to tighten them a few flats. However, the forward starboard keel bolt showed little resistance when I turned it. The bolt does not turn with the nut, but it rises when the nut is tightened... It also can be flexed side to side, and I do not believe it is anchored any longer in the keel. I called mars metals who makes keels now, and they said that the older keels were generally J or L shaped studs that were cast into the keel. The tech rep on the phone told me that there may be a casting anomaly in the keel itself where there is a pocket where the J bolt is, and he recommended seeing how much the bolt would rise before I encountered resistance. If the bolt is truly broken, it will rise out of the keel bolt hole. In that case, he recommended drilling a new hole or two just aft of this bolt, and driving in a high quality lag bolt (stainless) into the keel. What is the shape of the steel reinforcement in the hull (is it a curved plate, or is it ribbed (if I do this, I want to ensure there is backing behind the fiberglass bilge floor. Has anyone had this problem before (with a keel bolt that did not seem secure)? If I have to replace it, can a single keel bolt be re-placed water-borne. Would it be better to drill a new hole just aft of the current keel bolt (thru the steel hat section), and into the lead, tap it, and insert a new high quality stainless bolt with some 4200 compound? I own a 1981 Hunter 27 with the diesel removed. The keel bolts all appear to be in great condition.
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Bill O'Donovan
Whoa...
2 gallons seems like a lot, but nevertheless you should consider whether any water is coming in over the gunnels, through the stanchions, down the bow, between the seams and God-knows-where-else. Perhaps it's not at the keel. Check around with others who have your make and year for their experience.
2 gallons seems like a lot, but nevertheless you should consider whether any water is coming in over the gunnels, through the stanchions, down the bow, between the seams and God-knows-where-else. Perhaps it's not at the keel. Check around with others who have your make and year for their experience.
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Richard Marble
Once again
Take a ball pean hammer and rap the top of the keel bolts the hammer should bounce off the bolts right back at you. If it doesn't then you most likely have problems. If you have a keel bolt that is coming out when you turn it, it needs replacing. now I have heard of some people putting in large lag bolts as a replacement for keel bolts in a lead keel. Whatever you do I would do it with the boat out of the water and I would recaulk the keel. My H 27 does not oil can and is very stiff so I wonder if the noise you hear is keel flex because of bad keel bolts. Whatever it is I would make sure the keel bolts are all good or replace them and I would recaulk the keel before I waited too long. If you had a leak around the keel and that was all I would say you could just clean out the old caulking and recaulk. But it sounds like you have more problems than just a leaky keel. I would think it would be a good idea to drop the keel and check out everything.
Take a ball pean hammer and rap the top of the keel bolts the hammer should bounce off the bolts right back at you. If it doesn't then you most likely have problems. If you have a keel bolt that is coming out when you turn it, it needs replacing. now I have heard of some people putting in large lag bolts as a replacement for keel bolts in a lead keel. Whatever you do I would do it with the boat out of the water and I would recaulk the keel. My H 27 does not oil can and is very stiff so I wonder if the noise you hear is keel flex because of bad keel bolts. Whatever it is I would make sure the keel bolts are all good or replace them and I would recaulk the keel before I waited too long. If you had a leak around the keel and that was all I would say you could just clean out the old caulking and recaulk. But it sounds like you have more problems than just a leaky keel. I would think it would be a good idea to drop the keel and check out everything.
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Chris Jacobsen
KEEL BOLT IS BROKEN
Thanks for the advice... I found the forward starboard keel bolt was broken just below the nut. It looks like it failed some time ago because there is a significant oxide layer on the break. Right now, I am trying to figure out with my rigger just how to fix this (while not throwing money to the wind)... Several suggestions have been to use lag bolts into the keel, or to drill down a new hole into the bilge and keel, and then cut out a recess in the keel just large enough to put a nut and washer on the end of the bolt to capture it. Then, fill it in with epoxy compound... and recaulk everything... It looks like I'll be taking the boat out of the water. Thanks for the advice so far, I'll keep posted the progress of the problem and solution.
Thanks for the advice... I found the forward starboard keel bolt was broken just below the nut. It looks like it failed some time ago because there is a significant oxide layer on the break. Right now, I am trying to figure out with my rigger just how to fix this (while not throwing money to the wind)... Several suggestions have been to use lag bolts into the keel, or to drill down a new hole into the bilge and keel, and then cut out a recess in the keel just large enough to put a nut and washer on the end of the bolt to capture it. Then, fill it in with epoxy compound... and recaulk everything... It looks like I'll be taking the boat out of the water. Thanks for the advice so far, I'll keep posted the progress of the problem and solution.
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richard shelby
keel bolts
Chris: I had this problem on a Catalnia 27, and went thru the process of drilling into the lead keel with a 1/2 drill, and retrofitting 4 new keel bolts. These were 1/2 x 12" SS lag screws (wood thread) with big washers and a glob of polysulfide. I left the original bolts in place, and put these in pairs between the two which were severely corroded. I eventually sold the boat, but it held for at least 3 years without a problem. I think you need to haul out and do a serious inspection inside and out. You need to fix this ASAP.
Chris: I had this problem on a Catalnia 27, and went thru the process of drilling into the lead keel with a 1/2 drill, and retrofitting 4 new keel bolts. These were 1/2 x 12" SS lag screws (wood thread) with big washers and a glob of polysulfide. I left the original bolts in place, and put these in pairs between the two which were severely corroded. I eventually sold the boat, but it held for at least 3 years without a problem. I think you need to haul out and do a serious inspection inside and out. You need to fix this ASAP.
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robby
helicoils
i never tried this on a keel, but it totally fixed a 7000$ aluminum engine block i stripped out. the helicoils are aircraft rated. after you remove the keel you may be able to turn the old studs out with vice grips or similar tool. if the hole is stripped the helicoill set has a speacial bit that comes with it. make sure and drill it straight. tap the hole out with the encluded tap. then thread the new threaded insert in with their special tool. you can then put in a new factory style stud. works good on aluminum, and a lot of other metals. whole kit runs about 25-30 $. can't tell repair from factory. thus enhancing resell value. stronger than new once installed correctly.
i never tried this on a keel, but it totally fixed a 7000$ aluminum engine block i stripped out. the helicoils are aircraft rated. after you remove the keel you may be able to turn the old studs out with vice grips or similar tool. if the hole is stripped the helicoill set has a speacial bit that comes with it. make sure and drill it straight. tap the hole out with the encluded tap. then thread the new threaded insert in with their special tool. you can then put in a new factory style stud. works good on aluminum, and a lot of other metals. whole kit runs about 25-30 $. can't tell repair from factory. thus enhancing resell value. stronger than new once installed correctly.
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Chris Jacobsen
THANKS FOR THE INFO...
Robby and everyone else, Thanks for the information. The only problem is that the studs are actually J-bolts that were set into the molten lead when it was cast. They are permanent, and trying to drill out hard stainless studs from soft lead would be an exercise in futility. My rigger consulted a naval architect about the Catalina factory solution, and he ran the numbers, and said to go with putting 3 5/8 inch lag bolts (9 inches long) into the keel in the region of the old keel bolt, and then re-caulking the keel. I think this is the way I will go. I also spoke with a notable fiberglass repairman here in Norfolk, and he wanted to glass the whole keel in, or at least down about 12 inches down from the hull, and make the keel and hull into one unit. He said it would definitely hold, and I would never have to worry about the problem or even worry about keel bolts again; the only problem is that it would have cost about $1,200 to $1,500 to do. I will keep the forum posted of the progress and outcome of the work. Chris
Robby and everyone else, Thanks for the information. The only problem is that the studs are actually J-bolts that were set into the molten lead when it was cast. They are permanent, and trying to drill out hard stainless studs from soft lead would be an exercise in futility. My rigger consulted a naval architect about the Catalina factory solution, and he ran the numbers, and said to go with putting 3 5/8 inch lag bolts (9 inches long) into the keel in the region of the old keel bolt, and then re-caulking the keel. I think this is the way I will go. I also spoke with a notable fiberglass repairman here in Norfolk, and he wanted to glass the whole keel in, or at least down about 12 inches down from the hull, and make the keel and hull into one unit. He said it would definitely hold, and I would never have to worry about the problem or even worry about keel bolts again; the only problem is that it would have cost about $1,200 to $1,500 to do. I will keep the forum posted of the progress and outcome of the work. Chris
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Royce
Keel bolt repair
There is a company in Calif. that repairs keel bolts. They come to your site, you have to remove your keel, they lay the keel on its side, melt out the old keel J bolt, form a new bolt and by some proprietary method "weld" or melt the lead back in.
There is a company in Calif. that repairs keel bolts. They come to your site, you have to remove your keel, they lay the keel on its side, melt out the old keel J bolt, form a new bolt and by some proprietary method "weld" or melt the lead back in.
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