When it rains or I wash my boat water collects in the engine compartment, which I have learned holds appx. 1 1/2 gallons of water. I believe the majority of the water is coming from the toe rail. I'm a relatively new owner and am not certain of the correction tactics. Can I just run a small bead of chaulking along both sides? Or does it need to be loosened, re-chaulked and torqued down? I want a simply solution but want it done right also so the problem isn't recurring. THANKS for any help.
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Bob Howie
Caulking
If you don't know exactly where the leak is, then caulking might be a way to go. But, you're gonna have to caulk both sides of the toe rail, possible both sides of both toe rails and you should use a long-life, quality caulk like BoatLife caulk -- not something like 3M 5200 -- because the caulk is going to become a maintenance item for you. Run as small a bead of caulk as you can and you might want to fare it smooth at the toerail-deck joint just for the looks of it. This will solve your problem for awhile and it most like will avoid any "new" problems associated with unbolting the toe rail to rebed it and then tightening it down. You might create more leaks than you are fixing. Remember, though, that caulking is a temporary fix -- as just about any repair topside is temporary, I guess -- so you are going to have to keep an eye on it and then recaulk as necesseary. Probably good for at least a year, though, before you have to worry about it. Good luck.
If you don't know exactly where the leak is, then caulking might be a way to go. But, you're gonna have to caulk both sides of the toe rail, possible both sides of both toe rails and you should use a long-life, quality caulk like BoatLife caulk -- not something like 3M 5200 -- because the caulk is going to become a maintenance item for you. Run as small a bead of caulk as you can and you might want to fare it smooth at the toerail-deck joint just for the looks of it. This will solve your problem for awhile and it most like will avoid any "new" problems associated with unbolting the toe rail to rebed it and then tightening it down. You might create more leaks than you are fixing. Remember, though, that caulking is a temporary fix -- as just about any repair topside is temporary, I guess -- so you are going to have to keep an eye on it and then recaulk as necesseary. Probably good for at least a year, though, before you have to worry about it. Good luck.
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Mike
Same problem on my 28.5
Well, I can't shed much light, but I have plenty of sympathy since I have the same problem. What I can tell you is what I plan to do about it this coming weekend. I am going to have a friend hose down the aft section while I go below and look for the source or sources of the leak. I have three prime suspects: The stern rail, the Edson helm, or the screw-in deck plate for the emerg. tiller. I shudder at the thought that the toe-rail is the source. I worry that the stern railing is the source. To remove that....what a rotten job. I'll let you know what I discover next monday.
Well, I can't shed much light, but I have plenty of sympathy since I have the same problem. What I can tell you is what I plan to do about it this coming weekend. I am going to have a friend hose down the aft section while I go below and look for the source or sources of the leak. I have three prime suspects: The stern rail, the Edson helm, or the screw-in deck plate for the emerg. tiller. I shudder at the thought that the toe-rail is the source. I worry that the stern railing is the source. To remove that....what a rotten job. I'll let you know what I discover next monday.
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Brett
Are you sure its the Toe Rail?
It seems a little hard to believe that water from the toe rail would travel to the engine pan and collect there. I believe the 27 is similar to my 1978 H30 and has the traveler mounted on the bridgedeck in front of the companionway. The mounting screws for the traveler could be the source of your leak and it would be easy to remove and re-bed with caulk. It might be worth a try.
It seems a little hard to believe that water from the toe rail would travel to the engine pan and collect there. I believe the 27 is similar to my 1978 H30 and has the traveler mounted on the bridgedeck in front of the companionway. The mounting screws for the traveler could be the source of your leak and it would be easy to remove and re-bed with caulk. It might be worth a try.
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Ed Schenck
Agree with Brett and others.
It would be unusual to let in that much water through the toerail although they do leak. I think the Cherubinis are the same, the deck to hull joint is a wrapover. If true then the only water ingress at the toerail is through the bolt holes. And, of course, the bolts for the stanchions and pushpit. Even though the locker covers fit over a lip I find a surprising amount of water still gets in that way. And there are the bolt holes for the locker hinges that probably need resealed. The pedestal is quite simple to reseal but it takes two people, one to hold a screwdriver on top while the other unbolts from underneath. Thanks for the traveller tip. I'm sure my old H37C is letting in some water under it.
It would be unusual to let in that much water through the toerail although they do leak. I think the Cherubinis are the same, the deck to hull joint is a wrapover. If true then the only water ingress at the toerail is through the bolt holes. And, of course, the bolts for the stanchions and pushpit. Even though the locker covers fit over a lip I find a surprising amount of water still gets in that way. And there are the bolt holes for the locker hinges that probably need resealed. The pedestal is quite simple to reseal but it takes two people, one to hold a screwdriver on top while the other unbolts from underneath. Thanks for the traveller tip. I'm sure my old H37C is letting in some water under it.
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Peter Roach
Former 27 Owner
As a former owner of a 1978 H27, I can say that the toe rail will leak like a %^&*((&. It is probably coming from there. I don’t know how it is getting into your engine pan but I can definitely see 1.5 gallons collecting there when you wash your boat. If you think it is your toe rail, here are your choice (in acending difficulty): You can tighten all of the bolts in the toe rail. Since hunter used a gray goop between the hull and the deck, this might solve all of your leaks. It will definitely be a two person job. You will need one on the deck holding the screwdriver and one in the boat tightening all of the bolts (Don’t forget to tighten the spreader bolts). You might want to get a few extra bolts as you will probably break a few. You might want to go back and try tightening them again. You will be surprised at how many will take another ¼ turn. On my boat this stopped 99% of the leaks. If that does not work. You can run a bead of caulk down the inboard side of the toe rail. Since the outboard side is over the side of the boat, I don’t think you need to worry about that side. When I did this to my H27 it did not seem to stop any of the leaks. It is worth a try because the next one is a BIG one. If that does not work. You need to remove the toe rail and recaulk it. This stopped all of my leaks. I believe the leaks were coming in through the bolts. I would not do this job again for the few leaks that were remaining after I tightened down the bolts (ok I am compulsive). Now saying all of that why don’t you check a couple of things first since you can get so much from just a washing. If memory serves me correctly, there is a wood strip around the companion way that holds the hatch boards. I would take a hose and direct it at the hatch boards only. Let it run down the hatch boards for 10 minutes and see if you get water in the boat. If you don’t, then take the hose and run it on the starboard side of the boat over the toe rail. Check for water. If there is still no water try the port side. If still no water then try where the main sheet attaches on the cabin top. If I were a betting man, I would bet that the wooden frame that holds the hatch boards needs to be rebedded. I would still tighten down all of the toe rail bolts and would probably rebed the lifeline stanchions. Let us know what you find
As a former owner of a 1978 H27, I can say that the toe rail will leak like a %^&*((&. It is probably coming from there. I don’t know how it is getting into your engine pan but I can definitely see 1.5 gallons collecting there when you wash your boat. If you think it is your toe rail, here are your choice (in acending difficulty): You can tighten all of the bolts in the toe rail. Since hunter used a gray goop between the hull and the deck, this might solve all of your leaks. It will definitely be a two person job. You will need one on the deck holding the screwdriver and one in the boat tightening all of the bolts (Don’t forget to tighten the spreader bolts). You might want to get a few extra bolts as you will probably break a few. You might want to go back and try tightening them again. You will be surprised at how many will take another ¼ turn. On my boat this stopped 99% of the leaks. If that does not work. You can run a bead of caulk down the inboard side of the toe rail. Since the outboard side is over the side of the boat, I don’t think you need to worry about that side. When I did this to my H27 it did not seem to stop any of the leaks. It is worth a try because the next one is a BIG one. If that does not work. You need to remove the toe rail and recaulk it. This stopped all of my leaks. I believe the leaks were coming in through the bolts. I would not do this job again for the few leaks that were remaining after I tightened down the bolts (ok I am compulsive). Now saying all of that why don’t you check a couple of things first since you can get so much from just a washing. If memory serves me correctly, there is a wood strip around the companion way that holds the hatch boards. I would take a hose and direct it at the hatch boards only. Let it run down the hatch boards for 10 minutes and see if you get water in the boat. If you don’t, then take the hose and run it on the starboard side of the boat over the toe rail. Check for water. If there is still no water try the port side. If still no water then try where the main sheet attaches on the cabin top. If I were a betting man, I would bet that the wooden frame that holds the hatch boards needs to be rebedded. I would still tighten down all of the toe rail bolts and would probably rebed the lifeline stanchions. Let us know what you find
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Mark Slifko
Check the scupper hose !
Quick easy check .... check the scupper hose. I had a similiar problem and that was it !
Quick easy check .... check the scupper hose. I had a similiar problem and that was it !
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Mike
So far
This weekend's project is to locate the rainwater leaks aft. The water collects in my engine compartment just like Keith, and also the rear of my quarter berth floor carpet gets wet (and my cushion back there was ruined). After spraying down the aft section with water to locate the source of my leaks, I have found the following: Upper half of the Edson pedestal was leaking badly. I disassembled and rebedded the upper pedestal housings - the upper housing (plastic) is badly cracked and I will have see if Edson sells a replacement part. I pressed 4200 into the cracks as a temp. solution. The lower housing is alum. and I found the alum. threads for the screws holding down the housing to be shot. I used bolts/nuts instead but it was a pain in the rear end. Some leaking at the screws for the lazerette hatch seat. Have to re-bed hinge. Also some spill-over from the channels that are supposed to guide rainwater out and away from the seat - Ed mentioned this in his post. Some leaking at the screws for the starboard bench seat/stowage hatch and also spill-over. Hinge to be re-bedded. Spill-over problem...hmmm I have to think about that one. Suggestions Ed? Steady leak around the lighter style power outlet jack next to the engine instrament panel. To be removed and rebedded. So far, I have not seen a problem with the toe rail, the scuppers, the emergency tiller access port or the traveler. I will be doing more drenching tomorrow...... Keep you posted.
This weekend's project is to locate the rainwater leaks aft. The water collects in my engine compartment just like Keith, and also the rear of my quarter berth floor carpet gets wet (and my cushion back there was ruined). After spraying down the aft section with water to locate the source of my leaks, I have found the following: Upper half of the Edson pedestal was leaking badly. I disassembled and rebedded the upper pedestal housings - the upper housing (plastic) is badly cracked and I will have see if Edson sells a replacement part. I pressed 4200 into the cracks as a temp. solution. The lower housing is alum. and I found the alum. threads for the screws holding down the housing to be shot. I used bolts/nuts instead but it was a pain in the rear end. Some leaking at the screws for the lazerette hatch seat. Have to re-bed hinge. Also some spill-over from the channels that are supposed to guide rainwater out and away from the seat - Ed mentioned this in his post. Some leaking at the screws for the starboard bench seat/stowage hatch and also spill-over. Hinge to be re-bedded. Spill-over problem...hmmm I have to think about that one. Suggestions Ed? Steady leak around the lighter style power outlet jack next to the engine instrament panel. To be removed and rebedded. So far, I have not seen a problem with the toe rail, the scuppers, the emergency tiller access port or the traveler. I will be doing more drenching tomorrow...... Keep you posted.
So far Mike
So far you have probably corrected your real problem. You may want to consider a wheel cover. It prevents the pedestal from getting as much weather on it and should help prevent you leakage too. PS: I am glad to see that you had to foresite to not use 5200!
So far you have probably corrected your real problem. You may want to consider a wheel cover. It prevents the pedestal from getting as much weather on it and should help prevent you leakage too. PS: I am glad to see that you had to foresite to not use 5200!
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Mike
So far II
Hey Steve, I am not convinced I solved the whole problem. I do have a wheel cover, but it's not water proof. As best I can tell, the cover came into contact with the pedestal at just the right spot to allow water to wick in to one of the seams. Every joint in the top half of the pedestal was leaky though. And I treated myself to a new Richie compass for my trouble. I ran out of time so I did not get to check the stern rail, the ladder, or the two backstay anchors for leaks. And now that the pedestal seems to be in good shape, I want to re-test to make sure I got it. I did find it encouraging that after a wicked t-storm that night, my quarter berth was not soaked the next day. That lazerette seat was a royal pain in the aft. The screws that held the hinges to the hull were all stripped, so I replaced with bolts, which is what they should have been in the first place. The hinge, and the bolts on the seat side were not bedded at all (hinge was bedded on the hull side only). Just rubber coated washers on the underside to keep the water out. Didn't work - duh. But the position of those crappy hinge bolts made them a mother and a half to remove/replace. The Bench seat over the stowage/fuel tank area looks like it is going to be an even greater bear to fix. What was hunter thinking? When I get done with this boat it'll be better than new! Mike
Hey Steve, I am not convinced I solved the whole problem. I do have a wheel cover, but it's not water proof. As best I can tell, the cover came into contact with the pedestal at just the right spot to allow water to wick in to one of the seams. Every joint in the top half of the pedestal was leaky though. And I treated myself to a new Richie compass for my trouble. I ran out of time so I did not get to check the stern rail, the ladder, or the two backstay anchors for leaks. And now that the pedestal seems to be in good shape, I want to re-test to make sure I got it. I did find it encouraging that after a wicked t-storm that night, my quarter berth was not soaked the next day. That lazerette seat was a royal pain in the aft. The screws that held the hinges to the hull were all stripped, so I replaced with bolts, which is what they should have been in the first place. The hinge, and the bolts on the seat side were not bedded at all (hinge was bedded on the hull side only). Just rubber coated washers on the underside to keep the water out. Didn't work - duh. But the position of those crappy hinge bolts made them a mother and a half to remove/replace. The Bench seat over the stowage/fuel tank area looks like it is going to be an even greater bear to fix. What was hunter thinking? When I get done with this boat it'll be better than new! Mike
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Keith
Thanks everyone!!
I've solved my leak problems, and as it turns out the pedestal was my biggest enemy. The toe rail did have a couple of small trouble areas but they were easily repaired with a little chaulking. Now I have a new problem which I may post separately but will cover briefly. The pedestal leak must be fairly old as I also found a soft spot by the pedestal(barefeet are pretty sensitive). It's serious enough that I think I'll need to remove the pedestal and possibly reinforce the floor by screwing/glueing marine grade plywood under the floor. If I don't get other suggestions I will post separately. But I appreciate all the help and ideas ya'll came up with. I've made good use of the info.
I've solved my leak problems, and as it turns out the pedestal was my biggest enemy. The toe rail did have a couple of small trouble areas but they were easily repaired with a little chaulking. Now I have a new problem which I may post separately but will cover briefly. The pedestal leak must be fairly old as I also found a soft spot by the pedestal(barefeet are pretty sensitive). It's serious enough that I think I'll need to remove the pedestal and possibly reinforce the floor by screwing/glueing marine grade plywood under the floor. If I don't get other suggestions I will post separately. But I appreciate all the help and ideas ya'll came up with. I've made good use of the info.
Think about removing the cockpit sole!
Keith: Think about removing the entire cockpit sole. You can cut the fiberglass along the edge of the non-skid surface with a zip tool, dremmel etc. The idea is to keep the entire piece of sole in a single piece. Then do you your repairs. Then you will replace the fiberglass and just seal the edge of the sole with some fiberglass. Then you can either paint it or use some gelcoat and redo the non-skid. No one will ever know that it was removed & replaced.
Keith: Think about removing the entire cockpit sole. You can cut the fiberglass along the edge of the non-skid surface with a zip tool, dremmel etc. The idea is to keep the entire piece of sole in a single piece. Then do you your repairs. Then you will replace the fiberglass and just seal the edge of the sole with some fiberglass. Then you can either paint it or use some gelcoat and redo the non-skid. No one will ever know that it was removed & replaced.
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Mike Hartmann
more leak infor
Hey Keith, keep an eye out for leaks around the anchor bolts for the stern rails. I have completed my leak hunt and the leaks I found were in the pedestal, the hinges of the aft stowage seat hatches, the cigarette lighter outlet, the tachometer on the engine instrament panel, and the stern rail bolts (but not the rail bolts that go through the toe-rail, just the bolts that go thru the stern). There is one stern rail bolt on the port rail that is going to be horrible to get at. And of course, that one leaks the most....argh. Good luck with the cockpit sole problem......... Mike
Hey Keith, keep an eye out for leaks around the anchor bolts for the stern rails. I have completed my leak hunt and the leaks I found were in the pedestal, the hinges of the aft stowage seat hatches, the cigarette lighter outlet, the tachometer on the engine instrament panel, and the stern rail bolts (but not the rail bolts that go through the toe-rail, just the bolts that go thru the stern). There is one stern rail bolt on the port rail that is going to be horrible to get at. And of course, that one leaks the most....argh. Good luck with the cockpit sole problem......... Mike
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