Launched yesterday. Few questions.

B

bundchen1263

.
Sep 5, 2016
89
Hi. Just launched my boat yesterday. The marina did the job, i can say most part went pretty smooth.The upper shroud goes outside of the lifelines and the lower ones inside or through the lifelines if i remember correctly, anyhow none of us were sure so we did it the way it looks right. No problem so far if someone clarify this, i would feel better. I realized a have no anode exept the small zinc bolt on beta motor. i ll be on mooring, with no other boat near me(the closest one is about 100 feet away). Location is hudson river,. Should i worried about corrosion or just forget it for this season. I think at this point my only option would be trying to attach a small zinc collar at shaft, in a murky water(doesn't sound like a easy project but doable i guess) Now lets talk about the bigger problem. Beta BZ482 motor. i have installed racor MA500 as recommended by beta. Fuel tank is the original, also original location down at bilge cavity. Since the boat was on dry till yesterday, i couldn't run the motor enough to determine if everything was ok. It started and i bleed it. Yesterday after the crane operator removed the straps, we started the motor. Everything looks good, but there is a constant fuel starvation. The boat was sitting about 3 years so i removed the old diesel and fill her with fresh. Few weeks ago i was suggested by racor and beta to install an electronic fuel pump. The facet brand sold by beta, and beta rep said this model is also being used on their bigger engine so for 14 hp like ours, it should be anough. The little lever on the beta you suppose to use to lift the fuel and prime it, does not powerful enough to bring anything. Now with the electronic fuel pump, i get fuel but not enough. How much flow i would need for such small motor? i wonder if something else needed to be checked. An air getting in the system from somewhere, somehow? So, under this condition the little beta still made the journey home, coughing, sneezing, revving up and down on her own. i will try few other things maybe changing the location of the facet pump, bypass racor just to see etc. I believe the problem is the fuel tank being so low, making the fuel delivery hard task.There may be 4 feet elevation difference from the bottom of the fuel tank to the fuel pump. Facet is located in the engine compartment close to engine fuel lifter. At some point i may consider pulling out the tank and locating somewhere higher than current location.
 
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tim_klynn

.
Feb 12, 2008
337
My guesses would be air in the lines. The injectors use high pressure fuel to pop them open and allow them to inject fuel into the engine.If there is air in the line, the air compresses and the fuel pressure doesn't get high enough to pop open the injector, resulting in a "misfire".You can check to see if there is air in the line by slightly undoing the fuel line nut to the injector while running or cranking the engine and seeing if bubbles come out or if there is no change in engine speed, if the engine is running. By cracking open the injector line, the fuel pressure can't build to open that injector and that cylinder won't fire.Not much fuel is injected, but you still want to mop up/catch what comes out. There shouldn't be a big spray of fuel, just loosen the nut only enough to allow the line to leak.If there is no air in the system then my guess is that there is a problem with the injectors sticking or something amiss with the high pressure injection pump.I'd try adding some Power Service Diesel Kleen to the tank. I'm usually wary of products whose manufacturers can't spell, but I've had good luck with using that in my truck if it starts to run slightly rough.I think there may be a fuel filter on the engine mounted fuel pump. If not, try that replacing that first.Here's a link to a Beta service brochure with some info on bleeding air from the system.Good luck! -Tim From: "bundchen1263@... [AlbinVega]" AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 8:03 AM Subject: [AlbinVega] Launched yesterday. Few questions.




Hi. Just launched my boat yesterday. The marina did the job, i can say most part went pretty smooth.The upper shroud goes outside of the lifelines and the lower ones inside or through the lifelines if i remember correctly, anyhow none of us were sure so we did it the way it looks right. No problem so far if someone clarify this, i would feel better. I realized a have no anode exept the small zinc bolt on beta motor. i ll be on mooring, with no other boat near me(the closest one is about 100 feet away). Location is hudson river,. Should i worried about corrosion or just forget it for this season. I think at this point my only option would be trying to attach a small zinc collar at shaft, in a murky water(doesn't sound like a easy project but doable i guess) Now lets talk about the bigger problem. Beta BZ482 motor. i have installed racor MA500 as recommended by beta. Fuel tank is the original, also original location down at bilge cavity. Since the boat was on dry till yesterday, i couldn't run the motor enough to determine if everything was ok. It started and i bleed it. Yesterday after the crane operator removed the straps, we started the motor. Everything looks good, but there is a constant fuel starvation. The boat was sitting about 3 years so i removed the old diesel and fill her with fresh. Few weeks ago i was suggested by racor and beta to install an electronic fuel pump. The facet brand sold by beta, and beta rep said this model is also being used on their bigger engine so for 14 hp like ours, it should be anough. The little lever on the beta you suppose to use to lift the fuel and prime it, does not powerful enough to bring anything. Now with the electronic fuel pump, i get fuel but not enough. How much flow i would need for such small motor? i wonder if something else needed to be checked. An air getting in the system from somewhere, somehow? So, under this condition the little beta still made the journey home, coughing, sneezing, revving up and down on her own. i will try few other things maybe changing the location of the facet pump, bypass racor just to see etc. I believe the problem is the fuel tank being so low, making the fuel delivery hard task.There may be 4 feet elevation difference from the bottom of the fuel tank to the fuel pump. Facet is located in the engine compartment close to engine fuel lifter. At some point i may consider pulling out the tank and locating somewhere higher than current location.






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groundhogyh

.
May 30, 2006
1,075
my friend had a tiny hole in the very small pipe (like a straw) inside the fuel tank. makes it hard to suck fuel. check for any air holes before the fuel pump. after fuel pump, you will see dripping diesel if there are holes.make sure all filters are clean. replace them all. on the original MD6a, there was a screen filter that would clog with black stuff. dont think beta has this but check. Sent from my iPhone
 
P

pelagicasd

.
Jan 28, 2001
694
Very good suggestion. Lyric had a similar problem and it turned out to be the gasket on the Racor filter. WaltFrom: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Jon Phillips jonphillipsmsw@... [AlbinVega] AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 8:37 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Launched yesterday. Few questions.




If you know that the fuel lifting pump is working and you are using new fuel, then I would also highly suspect you're getting air in the fuel system somewhere. We had a pinhole air leak in our secondary fuel filter housing that took a long time
to diagnose because it was so small, but when running the engine over a period of longer than 20 minutes, the tiny bubbles would merge into a big bubble and be pulled down the line. That little diesel needs very little fuel for combustion.
Check for any loose fittings, suspect hoses, make sure the primary fuel filter doesn't show signs of corrosion around the base, etc.
On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Tim Klynn
tim_klynn@... [AlbinVega] AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com wrote:
 
K

ken.gra1

.
Apr 25, 2011
1
I have my fuel tank in the keel with a facet pump and had a similar problem. After trying and failing to find the problem, I ended up installing a CAV fuel filter with a primer pump.10 to 20 pushes of the pump when I arrive at the boat and the engine is fine all day. Possibly not the best 'fix' but it does work for me.

Ken
 
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bundchen1263

.
Sep 5, 2016
89
removed and cleaned the tank yesterday. There was at least 3 inches of water at the bottom of the tank or contaminated fuel. Installed it back. By the time i was done, it was pushing towards night and i was tired. i realized today that i didn't bleed the system. After that and new filters, i expect to be ok. We shall see. I also realized i need to learn more and ordered nigel's diesel engine book. I have the beta user manual but what i am looking for is equal of haines or chilton type of repair manual covering beta bz482( or beta 14). If anyone knows about such publishing i would be glad to find out, my researches didn't yield any good result. Last question regarding the beta. Is there a bleeding option at injection parts of the motor. So far i know about the bleeding at the lift pump and the one located at the top of the secondary fuel filter. To completely bleed the system, is there any other point? Thanks
 
T

tim_klynn

.
Feb 12, 2008
337
I don't know of any Haines type manuals for it.The Beta is a marinized Kubota diesel.Someone here can probably tell you which one, and you can probably find the Kubota manual. Tim
 
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bundchen1263

.
Sep 5, 2016
89
UPDATE: Hi folks i am trying get this beta bz482 running. i am trying to get help trouble shoot the problem also at facebook group. I wanted to mentioned it here as well since not everyone has membership to both forum/sites. tank/fuel system/filters etc clean, no water, no air getting in the system. Engine getting enough fuel, tank vents, extra fuel returns to the tank without issue. i had to break the seal of the factory set idle speed to turn it up, now it idles around 820(correct speeed according to the manual) before, it was idling around 600, not smooth and barely staying on. That made me think little bit because it may indicate a problem somewhere else. Why would i need to mess with factory setting to to set the correct idle speed? Anyway the engine has no problem revving up to 4k WHILE the transmission disengaged, idling. As soon as you engage the transmission, now the coupler and the shaft starts turning, forward or reverse, the engine is NOT able to see over 650-700 rpm, very slovly turning the shaft which gives you a knot or so forward or reverse speed. I have disconnect the coupler from the shaft to see how things work and again observed the engine revving up to 4k screaming like an eagle, turning the flange that sticks out of the gear box at highest rpm rated for the engine. Once connected to the shaft, above mentioned symptoms returns.The engine is beta bz482, very low hours, the fuel, air, oil filters i ve replaced was still factory installed, red painted stuff. the shaft and prop seems to be brand new, maybe few hours. THAT brings us to the point: is my prop too big or sized wrong etc?one more not: It is very easy to turn the shaft, coupler by hand, indicating its not restricted, also the ATF is newly replaced. Thanks in advance. have been talking to beta marine NC. Yes very supportive, the water here is very murky and have no info about the prop. before i decide to pay for lift and maybe replace the prop, i would like to eliminate all other possibilities.
 
S

sailbadthesaltysinner

.
Sep 21, 2016
1
Some random thoughts:Could prop be installed backwards? Same low rpm in reverse? Bad engine-shaft alignment restricting shaft rotation when they are coupled? Can you (free dive) to see (feel) anything on shaft or prop that doesn't belong there? Could restrict rotation once rpm exceeds hand turning speed.Bob D
 
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tim_klynn

.
Feb 12, 2008
337
I would guess the engine is not getting enough fuel, unless the prop was recently changed. It doesn't take much fuel to rev an unloaded engine.However, if you have it in gear, the prop is turning, when you increase the throttle, does a lot of black smoke come out of the exhaust?An incorrectly sized prop would overload the motor, and probably cause a lot of black (unburned fuel) smoke while loaded down at low rpms.If you have it in gear, prop turning and throttle it up and there is no black smoke, then it is likely a fuel starvation/quality problem.The fact that it doesn't want to idle very smoothly suggests a possible injector problem. I've run Diesel Kleen additive in the fuel of my trucks when they start to "misfire"and it seems to help clean them. You could pull the injectors and get them pop tested to check the spray pattern and fuel volume of the spray.Just curious as to how you know you are not getting air in the system? You could also try loosening the injector line to the injector enough to let fuel leak out, thereby preventing the injector from firing.Do this test while idling, out of gear, and if disabling one injector doesn't make that much difference to rpms or smoothness, the problem is probably that injector.If disabling each injector yields the same result, then either both injectors are faulty or fine. I haven't done this on a two cylinder motor (only v-8's) so it might not work, but could be worth a try.Obviously, take care to not set yourself or boat on fire. My experience is that only a few drops leak out on each pulse of the injection pump. If you loosen the nut on the injector line and bubbles come out, you know there is air in the system.Another possible problem is timing. If someone loosened and moved or removed and replaced the injection pump, the timing could be off. If the factory paint is intact around the pump, I would look at other possible problems first. That would be my guess as just some guy who is not a diesel mechanic and just guesses about diesels. -Tim From: "bundchen1263@... [AlbinVega]" AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 8:37 AM Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Launched yesterday. Few questions.




UPDATE: Hi folks i am trying get this beta bz482 running. i am trying to get help trouble shoot the problem also at facebook group. I wanted to mentioned it here as well since not everyone has membership to both forum/sites. tank/fuel system/filters etc clean, no water, no air getting in the system. Engine getting enough fuel, tank vents, extra fuel returns to the tank without issue. i had to break the seal of the factory set idle speed to turn it up, now it idles around 820(correct speeed according to the manual) before, it was idling around 600, not smooth and barely staying on. That made me think little bit because it may indicate a problem somewhere else. Why would i need to mess with factory setting to to set the correct idle speed? Anyway the engine has no problem revving up to 4k WHILE the transmission disengaged, idling. As soon as you engage the transmission, now the coupler and the shaft starts turning, forward or reverse, the engine is NOT able to see over 650-700 rpm, very slovly turning the shaft which gives you a knot or so forward or reverse speed. I have disconnect the coupler from the shaft to see how things work and again observed the engine revving up to 4k screaming like an eagle, turning the flange that sticks out of the gear box at highest rpm rated for the engine. Once connected to the shaft, above mentioned symptoms returns.The engine is beta bz482, very low hours, the fuel, air, oil filters i ve replaced was still factory installed, red painted stuff. the shaft and prop seems to be brand new, maybe few hours. THAT brings us to the point: is my prop too big or sized wrong etc?one more not: It is very easy to turn the shaft, coupler by hand, indicating its not restricted, also the ATF is newly replaced. Thanks in advance. have been talking to beta marine NC. Yes very supportive, the water here is very murky and have no info about the prop. before i decide to pay for lift and maybe replace the prop, i would like to eliminate all other possibilities.






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B

bundchen1263

.
Sep 5, 2016
89
 to tell you the truth, i always suspect a fuel related problem. reason is that when i removed the tank there was a 3 inch water sitting at the bottom an engine operated under that condition for few hours. i am thinking, somehow the water may have cause damage in the system. Other than that engine has low hours, not even seen a filter change yet, all the adjustment screws still has the factory seal with a small wire. not even one sign of ever a tool touching the engine before so i am sur nothing removed and messed  with it.  it may be fuel injection pump or injectors. maybe both, i am not sure. i havent seen a manual or something similar showing how to remove this components but probably still doable without them. 
 
B

bundchen1263

.
Sep 5, 2016
89
hi. The prop is clear, no ropes or anything restricting/ alignment is good anytime i disconnect the coupler and shaft, its easy to put it back together. But, somewhere down towards the prop, along the way, there may be a restriction which i dont know. knowing that i was able to turn the shaft by hand without feeling resistance, i eliminated that posibility.
 
W

winslowbuoy

.
Jan 31, 2009
122
Just a thought are you sure that the throttle cable and gear change cables are correctly linked up. On Friday, 23 June 2017, 18:47, "bundchen1263@... [AlbinVega]" AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com wrote:




to tell you the truth, i always suspect a fuel related problem. reason is that when i removed the tank there was a 3 inch water sitting at the bottom an engine operated under that condition for few hours. i am thinking, somehow the water may have cause damage in the system. Other than that engine has low hours, not even seen a filter change yet, all the adjustment screws still has the factory seal with a small wire. not even one sign of ever a tool touching the engine before so i am sur nothing removed and messed with it. it may be fuel injection pump or injectors. maybe both, i am not sure. i havent seen a manual or something similar showing how to remove this components but probably still doable without them.






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B

bundchen1263

.
Sep 5, 2016
89
Just a thought are you sure that the throttle cable and gear change cables are correctly linked up. yes i have checked them/ when the linkage removed, i operate from the engine lever by hand. all same.
 
B

btfag0s

.
Sep 13, 2002
203
Sounds suspiciously like only running on one cylinder [I believe the bz482 has two ] .. as has been previously mentioned, tinkering with the fuel feed should identify which cylinder is not working as it should."Could prop be installed backwards?" don't be silly :1. the taper wouldn't let you fit it A over T2. putting it on backward (if you could) wouldn't change the thrust direction (it would be less efficient, but would still push in the same direction)
 
B

bundchen1263

.
Sep 5, 2016
89
i am in contact with beta main dist. in NC. helpful people i am very satisfied with them. But still hard to diognise problem over the line. Even here i may not able to solve it and end up taking the matter to a marine mechanic. Its a learning process for me too. basic maintainance, how a diesel engine operates, cooling system etc. lot to learn.
 
B

bundchen1263

.
Sep 5, 2016
89
Sounds suspiciously like only running on one cylinder [I believe the bz482 has two ] .. as has been previously mentioned, tinkering with the fuel feed should identify which cylinder is not working as it should.I am coming from my boat. SOMETHING HAPPENED, i don't know what. i left the dock to go to my mooring. forward speed, same thing, control lever all the way down, i am doing maybe a knot or so slowly creeping towards my mooring, shaft and prop spinning slooowly around 950 rpm almost feels like idling. Something popped and i looked down, watching the air filter housing fall off. i left it loose day before while trying different things. That popping noise from the engine i believe forced the housing the fall off and RPM started to climb reaching 2k against the current and wind, 2200 downwind with the current. Nice and steady doing good speed. Interestingly though, in reverse i had the same problem as before. That cylinder not running idea make sense. On top of the fuel injector pump there are two fuel lines. i assume each line for each cylinder. attached with a nut, which can be cracked open for bleeding purposes i believe. When i am opening the one in front, facing to the alternator belt, fuel can be observed leaking out. The other one behind that which is facing towards the back of the engine, i am cracking the nut open and i dont see fuel leaking out like the other one. if i give him a little bit more turn, engine dies. i follow this lines to the fuel injectors and same thing happens. This may be completely normal and nothing out of ordinary, just wanted to share in case it would help identify the problem. i will continue trying things. Tomorrow i ll run the fuel hose and the fuel return hose to a small container filled with a injector cleaner and see if anything will improve.
 
T

tim_klynn

.
Feb 12, 2008
337
You don't want to run anything but diesel fuel or diesel fuel with the proper amount of diesel approved cleaner added through your motor. Don't put the pick up line in fuel injector cleaner. Don't use injector cleaner or sprays unless they are designed for diesel motors.If you run anything else that is more volatile, like gas, straight cleaner, or ether/starting fluid, you can seriously damage you motor.Diesel motors ignite the fuel via the heat of compression and are designed that the diesel fuel will combust when both valves are closed (or very close to it). Other fuels will heat and combust at a different rate, which in effect changes the ignition timing. The wrong fuel could ignite when a valve is open and damage the valve train.
 
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