I am hoping to get better light wind performance from my boat which has the standard B+R rig with a 110 headsail. Has anyone had any luck with fitting a larger jib?
Larger headsail for a 41DS
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Wimpy sails
Hunter is notorious for under-sizing the sails. I had a 122 genoa built to replace the dinky 110 jib which was really 100 or 95. Also got a bigger mainsail built as well. The combination is exquisite for speed. If you have only one sail to replace, do the genoa. Then get an asymmetrical spinnaker to zoom downwind.
Hunter is notorious for under-sizing the sails. I had a 122 genoa built to replace the dinky 110 jib which was really 100 or 95. Also got a bigger mainsail built as well. The combination is exquisite for speed. If you have only one sail to replace, do the genoa. Then get an asymmetrical spinnaker to zoom downwind.
Only do the larger sail if racing. Otherwise get an ASM. My 356 has a 155 jib to let the boat sail her rating, and does well in light air with it. I run the sheets back to the arch like the ASM, and then bring them in and down as needed from a track I put in on the deck.
A Doyle APC (Asymmetrical Power Cruiser) with a snuffing sock is a better solution.
http://shop.hunterowners.com/sails-doyle/detail-spin.htm?fno=0&bid=4872
http://shop.hunterowners.com/sails-doyle/detail-spin.htm?fno=0&bid=4872
Totally agree with Dave. The sail plan for the 41 is spot on. The APC is the best sail add you can do for your yacht.
I believe an ASM is appropriate for down wind but I am looking for performance on the wind in racing conditions. Who did your 155? Has anyone tried a whisker pole for off the wind with a larger headsail?
A local sailmaker made the 155, and yes I have and use a whisker pole with it when needed. The whisker pole is used when the seas are choppy or the main is blanketing the jib, but otherwise I let the jib sheets out and let her fly (sheets are lead back to the arch, and I use a snatch block through the car on the deck track to being them in and down).
The boat sails her rating quite well with the 155, and we place well in the local races and regattas. It takes a bit to learn how to get the trim right but it was worth it for me to stop being at the lower end of the fleet. The biggest pain was installing the new tracks.
Best advice is to work with a local sailmaker that will go sailing on your boat as it is now and give his opinion on how to set up the boat for a 155.
I have a 41 AC. Your DS and my AC are the same hull and B&R rig. A 155 genoa will not fit without hitting the spreaders. I think the big wrinkle it will create will hurt your performance. I agree with you about a larger head sail to improve light air performance and pointing ability. My sail maker took some measurements and with some design software was able to create a 134% genoa. I am still learning how to trim it in different wind conditions. We have won one race even with the handicap penalty for the increased size. We were second in another with stronger wind. It felt as if we were over powered, but the wind was not really that strong.
Find a good local sailmaker and work with him. I like mine.
Find a good local sailmaker and work with him. I like mine.
I have a 41 ac and had a local sail maker build a new jib. I had him build it close to rail height and as long as he could make it. He calls it a 110% and the shape is excellent. I also picked up a Doyle UPS which is pretty much a code zero furler. The jury is still out on that one. It's sized to 175% and the way it's cut, doesn't seem to be much bigger than the new jib. If I had it to do again I think I would go for an Asym with a sock. More square footage and less work, you need to run the furling line back and the UPS doesn't stay furled in front of the jib, you need to take it up and down just like the Asym.
How in the world did you allow a handicap penalty for an increase in jib size? Unless you are racing in a one-design class, PHRF assumes a jib of 155%. Penalties only come from anything above that.
My 155 is cut so the luft trims to the shrouds, which keeps it just from touching the spreaders. As the wind changes, I have to ease or tighten an inch or two to keep sail shape.
Steve,
PHRF provides +9 seconds for upto 110%, +6 seconds for upto 135%, and +3 seconds for upto 150%. Anything over 150%, e.g. 155 is +0 seconds. So when I went from 110 to 134, I lost 3 seconds. I also went from a combination laminate/woven material to a laminate material. That cost me another 3 seconds.
The Hunter 41's, not the 410's, have a relatively small J dimension, 13' and a large E dimension, 19.5'. It works very well for cruising, but when racing in heavier air it wants to round up. The larger jib helps counter act that and also helps you point higher. Down wind you can not ease the main out to 90 degrees due to the swept back spreaders. The larger jib helps compensate for that as well.
The jib sheets inside the shrouds so you can only go back to the spreaders. With the tall aspect ratio, this means only about a 135 genoa. Hope this helps explain what I was trying to say. I race in a true cruising class and some of the rating is because of the class I'm in.
PHRF provides +9 seconds for upto 110%, +6 seconds for upto 135%, and +3 seconds for upto 150%. Anything over 150%, e.g. 155 is +0 seconds. So when I went from 110 to 134, I lost 3 seconds. I also went from a combination laminate/woven material to a laminate material. That cost me another 3 seconds.
The Hunter 41's, not the 410's, have a relatively small J dimension, 13' and a large E dimension, 19.5'. It works very well for cruising, but when racing in heavier air it wants to round up. The larger jib helps counter act that and also helps you point higher. Down wind you can not ease the main out to 90 degrees due to the swept back spreaders. The larger jib helps compensate for that as well.
The jib sheets inside the shrouds so you can only go back to the spreaders. With the tall aspect ratio, this means only about a 135 genoa. Hope this helps explain what I was trying to say. I race in a true cruising class and some of the rating is because of the class I'm in.
Butch,
Thanks for info...loss of credit vice penalty. When I put my 155 on, there were no credits for the smaller headsails, so it really pushed me into the 155. The 356 has the same swept back spreaders, so the same situation.
I added a track outside the cockpit on the deck for the 155, so I can go outside the outer shrouds. That gives me control of the "full" sized sail.
A tip for downwind, even with out the extra track...take your lazy jib sheet outside the outer shroud and back to the arch and use it when running downwind. That opens up the sail even more, and will give you 1/2 knot or more with the wind behind the beam. Of course, if you use a whisker pole it will do the same thing, but the pole can be a bigger pain than it is worth on the short buoy races.
Thanks for info...loss of credit vice penalty. When I put my 155 on, there were no credits for the smaller headsails, so it really pushed me into the 155. The 356 has the same swept back spreaders, so the same situation.
I added a track outside the cockpit on the deck for the 155, so I can go outside the outer shrouds. That gives me control of the "full" sized sail.
A tip for downwind, even with out the extra track...take your lazy jib sheet outside the outer shroud and back to the arch and use it when running downwind. That opens up the sail even more, and will give you 1/2 knot or more with the wind behind the beam. Of course, if you use a whisker pole it will do the same thing, but the pole can be a bigger pain than it is worth on the short buoy races.
Steve, we also sail a 356 on Lake Champlain. We have a 110 now but would also like a larger head sail. We have often pondered a second track on the deck. Did you do any additional reinforcement under the deck?
THank you
Norm Laprade
2003 356 Hunter
Lake Champlain, VT
THank you
Norm Laprade
2003 356 Hunter
Lake Champlain, VT
Norm,
I used 3" wide 1/4" aluminum strip where I could and SS fender washers every where else.
Steve
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