My new C30 has a set of dacron and UK X-Drive laminate sails. Are there any drawbacks to using them on a daysailor or anything that I should be aware of?
Laminate sails for a daysailer?
- Thread starter Project_Mayhem
- Start date
Laminated string sails can suffer in various ways aside from the usual UV aging damage or abrasion -
Mildew can grow between the layers of cloth and cause stains that won’t come out. Repeated flexing or folding in the same spots can break down the cloth. If they applied surface tapes made of carbon or high modulus fiber the adhesive can break down and the tapes can delaminate.
That said, they have no significant stretch and will hold their shape better than traditional Dacron sails and can be made lighter for a given strength. They should last 7-10 years depending on your use and care.
That’s about as long as anything soft on a boat lasts
Mildew can grow between the layers of cloth and cause stains that won’t come out. Repeated flexing or folding in the same spots can break down the cloth. If they applied surface tapes made of carbon or high modulus fiber the adhesive can break down and the tapes can delaminate.
That said, they have no significant stretch and will hold their shape better than traditional Dacron sails and can be made lighter for a given strength. They should last 7-10 years depending on your use and care.
That’s about as long as anything soft on a boat lasts
Hello,
There aren't any real downsides to using laminate sails. As noted they will hold their shape better as compared to dacron sails. The main difference is that Dacron sails will last longer than laminate sails. But by lasting longer they will lose their shape and performance before the laminate sail does. If you don't really care about performance this won't bother you too much. You will notice this when sailing upwind and trying to point high and sail fast. As the dacron sail ages it will stretch and you will heel more and not point as high.
When laminate sails reach the end of life they typically fail by ripping to shreds. When dacron sails fail they get tears that can be repaired - but the sail shape can't be repaired.
Barry
There aren't any real downsides to using laminate sails. As noted they will hold their shape better as compared to dacron sails. The main difference is that Dacron sails will last longer than laminate sails. But by lasting longer they will lose their shape and performance before the laminate sail does. If you don't really care about performance this won't bother you too much. You will notice this when sailing upwind and trying to point high and sail fast. As the dacron sail ages it will stretch and you will heel more and not point as high.
When laminate sails reach the end of life they typically fail by ripping to shreds. When dacron sails fail they get tears that can be repaired - but the sail shape can't be repaired.
Barry
The only downside to using laminate sails in my view is the cost. Otherwise, if you like sailing I can't think of a reason why someone would want to keep a laminate sail in the bag and sail with lesser sails. As @BarryL stated the laminate sail will hold its shape for its usable lifetime. Once it becomes as porous as a screen door it is done - well maybe a bit before.
I had a tape drive sail on my Ranger. Even when it became porous it had a better shape than my Dacron 150% and it drew well despite the permeabliy of the sail. That's because the wind would still flow over the sail mostly instead of leaking through. It wasn't suitable for performance sailing but it was surprisingly adequate and more fun than the blown out 150.
If you use the laminate keep the UV off it as much as possible and stick to the wind ranges specified by the sail maker.
I had a tape drive sail on my Ranger. Even when it became porous it had a better shape than my Dacron 150% and it drew well despite the permeabliy of the sail. That's because the wind would still flow over the sail mostly instead of leaking through. It wasn't suitable for performance sailing but it was surprisingly adequate and more fun than the blown out 150.
If you use the laminate keep the UV off it as much as possible and stick to the wind ranges specified by the sail maker.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,590
If I was going day sailing and both sail designs were in the sail locker, I’d pull the sails that are the most fun for the experience. I’d use the laminate sails.
I guess you need to decide can getting a few more years of sail life by leaving the Ferrari in the garage and using the 2013 Camry is worth it. Sometimes you just got to sail.
I guess you need to decide can getting a few more years of sail life by leaving the Ferrari in the garage and using the 2013 Camry is worth it. Sometimes you just got to sail.
I had a laminate roller-furled Genoa on my P30 in FL. It had not been well cared for by the previous owner. Because it rains a lot in FL, the sail had become very dirty-looking from mildew growing beneath the laminate layer. Especially near the head and along the leech. You can’t clean it.
Too expensive for me during most of that time to just remove it and buy another. I eventually did replace it, however, after relocating the boat to Long Beach with a new Ullman Dacron sail. It very much improved the look of the boat. The owners before me fancied themselves as competitive races so wanted the “edge” of whatever laminates might offer, real or imagined. Did not help. I see no performance reason for me to have one; I wouldn’t buy another.
Too expensive for me during most of that time to just remove it and buy another. I eventually did replace it, however, after relocating the boat to Long Beach with a new Ullman Dacron sail. It very much improved the look of the boat. The owners before me fancied themselves as competitive races so wanted the “edge” of whatever laminates might offer, real or imagined. Did not help. I see no performance reason for me to have one; I wouldn’t buy another.
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jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,590
A new suit of Dacron sails, costing about $5K, on a 32-35 foot cruising boat can provide the average owner with five or more years of new-feel performance. This is very much dependent on how you use your boat. With a bit of care, you can stretch that out.
Buying new sails is similar to putting four new tires on your car. Boat handling improves. It feels like the boat has more zip. Care for the sails for most means more work. Caring for your sails will keep that zippy feeling longer.
A short list of care priorities.
Buying new sails is similar to putting four new tires on your car. Boat handling improves. It feels like the boat has more zip. Care for the sails for most means more work. Caring for your sails will keep that zippy feeling longer.
A short list of care priorities.
- Do not expose your sails to unnecessary UV or heat.
- If not in use, remove the sails and set them in dry storage
- Avoid flogging and luffing for long periods
- Use the appropriate halyard tension
- Protect your sails from chafe
- Rinse the sails with fresh water from time to time
- Dry the sails before storing them to avoid mildew.
After big rains here I often, if not usually, unfurl the headsail to air (dry) it out to combat mildew growth. Probably about as effective as tossing pennies into the wishing well. But I notice other folks doing it too. In FL one would have to do that nearly every day, or every other day, in summer. Perhaps better to replace it with a Dacron sail in summer if wishing to leave on the furler. The principal racing season in FL is mid-October through April.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,590
The easy path is to leave the sail furled and ready to slip the lines every evening for a quick sail after work. This keeps the sails aired out, and with sail covers, you can optimize sail usage.
If you are like many owners, only sail one or two times a month, then the exposed parts of the sails get extensive UV and weather while the inner sections appear newer. The covered sails will get damp, and after time, mildew finds the inner folds a wonderful environment.
If you are like many owners, only sail one or two times a month, then the exposed parts of the sails get extensive UV and weather while the inner sections appear newer. The covered sails will get damp, and after time, mildew finds the inner folds a wonderful environment.
Once upon a time sail boats carried a suite of sails designed and cut for different wind velocities. For high wind speeds the sails, particularly headsails, were cut flatter (less draft) with less sail area. A flat-cut sail sees reduced heeling force versus a deep one with the same area dimensions. When sails age and become stretched the draft becomes deeper and moves aft. Laminate resists the sail becoming deeper in draft with age and use. A boat with aged, stretched sails having deepened draft will experience greater heeling and weather helm in strong wind. So, one that has stretched less should give the better high wind & gust response (control). Sail controls such as Cunningham (e.g., jib Cunningham) can manage increased draft to a point. But in the old days a skipper would switch to a smaller, flatter-cut headsail, etc. Today we roller reef, which reduces sail area but does not fix the deepened draft of the old sails.
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