Lake Erie to Intercoastal

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Gene Thompson

I'm looking for any information or tips for the trip from Lake Erie (Sandusky Ohio) to the Intercoastal/Hudson River area. For example, average time to transit canal/river, canal miles (length), fees along the way, anything interesting on the route? Will I need to drop my mast at a certain point? draft/depth restrictions? entrance area to canal? Any information offered would be appreciated.
 
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Rob Rich

Welland?

Hi Gene - Are you going straight across the Erie Canal, or up Lake Erie and through the Welland? If you are taking the Welland, I have been through it before and will be glad to give you some pointers. Here is a link to their site http://www.seaway.ca/ If you are taking the Erie canal, I am pretty sure you will need to drop the mast, but that's about all I know. Best of Luck - Rob
 
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Kenneth Pfaff

I live off the Hudson

I have my boat on the Hudson River and sail in Haverstraw bay and have also thought about going up to the Erie canal, but going in the opposite direction. You will have to drop you mast, I believe I have read that the lowest clearence is 15ft and all the bridges of fixed. There is a fee for the canal and if I remember correctly it is $25 for a season pass (June to October) which you get from New York State. I have more information at home, such as address and such, if needed.
 
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Chuck

Erie Canal

I can tell you there are several marinas in the Buffalo area which can drop your mast. I am told there is a marina at the other end of the canal to restep the mast. I looked into the same trip a few years ago. Seems to me it was a 5 day trip from Buffalo to Albany. If you make the trip and stop in Buffalo let me know perhaps we can get together for an adult beverage. Chuck S/V Kililani
 
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Guest

Check this Book Out

River Horse by William Least Heat Moon (I think, it is at least close). He took a boat from New York to Washington or Oregon I've forgotten. Through the Canal, down the Ohio, up the Missouri, and down the Snake to somwhere in the Northwest.It was not as good a read as I had hoped for, he wrote more about himself than the trip but the part about the canal was interesting.
 
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Guest

Welland canal info.

Unless you want to drag out the journey you will want to go through the Welland Canal. It is an intersting trip that will cost you $10 Canadian per lock times 8 locks. You have to have a copy of The St Lawrence Seaway Pleasure Craft Guide, most important item is to learn the light signal sequence for entering the locks. They will give you a copy when you enter the canal or you can order on (it's free) by calling (613) 598-4614. The trip through will take you 8-12 hours depending on the amount of traffic going through. You will need at least three people on board, if you were going up the canal instead of down you would need four people to fend of the walls. Once you enter you have to keep going so try to get some refreshment prior to entering although there is a quiet stretch at the Lake Erie end. Port Colbourne is the only place to get anything until you exit the canal and get round to Niagara so re-supply there if you need to!
 
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Gene Thompson

thanks for the tips

So,,, If I leave Sandusky, head up the Welland, head East on Ontario, can I then find a link to the New York Canal system through Rochester? Or is there only one navigable entrance eastbound? I draw 5'6".
 
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Rob

My experience with Welland

Gene - since you are considering the Welland, I'll paste a little note here from when I navigated it. It was literally fascinating! I grew up in Buffalo and sailed a bit there, but never new that this neat canal was virtually in my back yard. Wait til you see the flight locks! If you have any questions, you can e-mail me at robrich@austin.rr.com I was crew aboard a 27 footer from Lake Ontario to Lake Erie back in 91. We entered the first lock on the Welland and checked in with the lock master at 20:00 - just a little light left in the day. Last boat to go through, and we actually were the only boat in the locks as we traveled - rare. We made the passage in the dark, but the canal was very well lit. Another advantage to night crossing is that - in general - there is less traffic, and you will not be crushed up against other vessels. There are ample docking spaces at each end of the canal as I recall, so you can pull in and rest, or overnight the evening before if you wish. You will definiely not have to take your mast down. Larger tankers routinely go through the locks - I even saw a battle ship go through once. Do yourself a favor and get a large peice of 1X12X8 lumber. After you secure three or more fenders on each side of your boat, you will drop this board over the side so that it hangs flat and parallel to the boat. It will rest against the outside of the fenders and protect them from the wall, which you will be bumping against as your vessel rises (quickly) in the lock. Also, you will need one crewmember forward and one aft to hold lines that will be dropped dropped from the lip of the lock. Actually, I think you might need to bring your own, so check out their website before headding off. Fore and Aft members will need to hold tightly to these ropes and pull on them from time to time as boat will be pushed around quite a bit by the surging water. It should be a little easier for you, as you will be travelling down. We were going up, and it got a little tricky sometimes. Also, the third crewmember will sit midship and fend the boat off of the wall. When he or she is overpowered, the above-mentioned board will take the abuse from the lock wall. This above all - do not fall overboard. I would consider a tether, as the sides of the locks have huge holes (the size of a man) in them which carry water to flood/drain the lock. You can just imagine what would happen if you fell overboard and got away from the boat... A lock can be a violent, dangerous place. I don't know what to tell you about rafting through a lock. I have heard about it, and I have heard people say it is harder and that it is easier. Wheather or not you have to tie to another boat depends upon how many boats are trying to go through a lock at once. More in morning, less in the evening (so I hear). Anyway - that was my experience. Good Luck! Rob
 
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Ed Schenck

Good advice so far.

My experience is all from reading because I hope to do the same one day. There is a Gene Thompson in the owner's directory but not from Ohio. I was going to e-mail you with the issue of Sailing that has a very complete story about traversing the Erie Canal. They echoed Rob's advise: have enough crew, lots of line, and adequate protection for the boat in the locks. I also have a book on the Erie Canal showing all the locks and points of interest. I think there are a few routes from Ontario back into the canal. You need to be certain you can get the mast down if you use the Ontario route. Ed(schencked@bfusa.com)
 
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Colin

New York canals via Oswego

You can join the New York canal system at Oswego. You will find it quicker to go this way than by entering the system from Lake Erie. A few things to bear in mind: 1)The Welland Canal is in Canada so you should make sure you have or your papers with you. 2) Research where yo can take you mast down prior to entering the New York Canal system. 3) The N.Y. canal system is not open all year so you should check dates. 4) You may find that hours operating hours are limited particularly through the spring and fall so chech ahead to see when the locks are open. There is a site on the net with info on the NY canal system.
 
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Bryan C.

Eire canal

Haven't done it myself but can pass on some ingo. You can general info on the eire canal website at http://www.canals.state.ny.us. Also, at http://www.sv-loki.com/ (click on delivery) is an informative narration by someone who bought a PDQ ("Loki") in Canada and brought her from Lake Erie to New York Harbor. The owner later made an even more detailed post which I copied and reporduced below: "1. Eire Canal delivery A.http://www.canals.state.ny.us/ After we brought out new boat (Loki, PDQ 36072) from Whitby to New Bedford last Spring, I intended to write a little "delivery manual" for future PDQ owners. Time has a way of evaporating such plans, but I thought I could put some notes out here and perhaps a other skippers can add their comments. A few caveats - this is our only trip through the locks - I'm sure there are some differing opinions on technique. Also, this is written from memory, so there could be some mis-information. There are pictures, a map, and a less technical description on our web site, http://www.sv-loki.com/Delivery/delivery.html. I'll add any comments and post this there as an addendum. First of all, let me say that bringing a PDQ from Whitby to NYC is an easy trip, and a great introduction to your new boat. We had tried to find a delivery captain to save vacations days, but with hindsight, I wish we had spent more time on this trip. What to bring: Two people, maybe three or more. I can't imagine single-handing through the locks. Two people is adequate, but the first few locks will be a bit hectic. Three will reduce the stress level a lot. We had two of us, plus our four year daughter, who, frankly, was a negative asset in the locks! Two boathooks - I'd get one long extending boat hook, and one solid. Cheap "garden gloves," preferably leather, for everyone, plus a spare. Its icky work. The deck will get slimed, so a bucket and brush are handy. (By the way, I recommend the deck washdown option from PDQ - ours gets a lot of use!) Make sure you have a jacket and pants that you don't mind getting slimed. PDQ provided for us two dock lines. You'll want at least two more (not for the locks, just for docking). Also, PDQ gives four fenders, the minimum required. A few spares would be nice. PDQ provides two fender boards. One should be enough, but it takes a beating so the spare is handy. (Required, really, since you wouldn't want to take your new boat through without one!) A handheld VHF. Although you normally don't need to radio the lock masters, there are times you'll want to consult before going through. Remember, your mast will be down, so you won't have that 50 foot antennae mount! If the antennae is mounted on deck, make sure that its vertical because it just doesn't work at a steep angle (radiation patterns and all that...ours was useless - the reason hit me when we were raising the mast). A suction cup emergency antennae on the hard top might be better. A cell phone is handy, but consult with your carrier to make sure you're setup with the preferred "A-line/B-line" settings. This might be a time to convert to a "one-rate" plan. (We had a $300 bill for May and June!) Our "bag-phone" worked in the middle of the lake, about 30 miles from the nearest cell. Basic Tools and Engine Spares Remember, any faulty equipment will fail on this trip (if you're lucky - better here than offshore!) so be prepared for at least one problem. Ours was clogged anti-syphon valves on the fuel tank. (I'd remove them if you have diesel, carry spares for gas.) Make sure you have all the manuals before you leave. You'll want shop manuals eventually, might as well get them now. You'll be due for the initial oil change within a few weeks, so you should start with spare filters, etc. Navigation: Its really hard to get lost on this trip! From Whitby to Oswego is a straight shot, about 110 nm. There are no hazards on the lake. We saw no signs of life. Assuming you go straight to Oswego, you don't really need a chart (I can't believe I'm saying this!) , though copying a few guidebook pages would be handy. The landmarks in Oswego are confusing til you get close so an aerial picture would be nice. GPS is very handy for this leg, since you'll be monitoring your ETA in Oswego closely. In the locks you'll want The Red Book - "Recreational Chart 14786 - New York State Barge Canal System." This is not to find your way - that's easy - it for details like which side of the dam the locks are on. Also, you'll want to identify features like "Guard Gates" (a giant valve to isolate sections of the canal) and various dams, highway bridges, etc. The one thing we would have liked is a concise listing of all the locks, with the rise/fall and the distances. ("Next lock is about five miles down, it's an 8 foot fall, with another a few miles further ...") On the Hudson, we used a one sheet "waterproof" chart that took us all the way down. My primary nav tool was the latitude from the GPS. We didn't find a good guide book - I was disappointed with the expensive hardcover (by Rumsey) we had. The Locks There are 29 locks on the part of the canal we were using, plus one on the Hudson. The first nine are up, the next 21 are down. Each lock is 42 feet wide by 300 long, the "lift" varies from 8 feet to 41 feet. The boat should be prepared with four large fenders on the Starboard side, plus a 2x4 fender board over the middle fenders that rubs against the wall. Have docklines attached, but they usually aren't used, unless you use the "pipes." You can radio ahead on VHF 13 - "Lock 20, Lock 20, this is the catamaran Loki, Eastbound, about 1/2 mile from the lock." Half the time they won't answer, but they probably already know you're there. The may come back with "The gate is open for you" or "There are several boats Westbound coming out in 10 minutes." As you approach a lock, you'll see a red or green "traffic light." Don't get too close until you can see inside the lock - there could be a barge coming out! Since your mast is down on the port side, you'll always go to the starboard side. In the Spring there is very little weekday traffic; we didn't share a lock for three days. Most of the traffic is returning snowbirds going the other way. For the ascending locks try to get towards the front, where the turbulence is reduced. You'll find that after a few locks, you can glide in a few inches from the wall and stop just where you want it. The locks will have lines hanging down about every 20 feet. Some also have pipes or cables recessed into the walls. You don't tie onto the lines, you just hold on, paying out or taking in, as appropriate. For the pipes or cables, you loop a line around it, and hold on. There are two basic techniques: There is the "two hanging lines - bow and stern" technique (we used this for most locks) and the "loop a line around the recessed pipe amidships" technique, required on the Federal Lock on the Hudson River. We used the former technique, avoiding the pipes, but when we got to the Federal Lock, we found that with just one pipe the boat glided smoothly against the wall. (I suspect this worked because the Federal Lock walls are very smooth. The other locks are rough and probably holding too snugly would be a problem. Any comments on this point would be appreciated.) The basic approach is drive in so that someone on the bow can grab a line (use the solid boathook here, since you may have to fend off), and then someone at the stern grabs another line with the extending boathook. Have hand signals so that the bow person can indicate which rope they intend to take; and you may want to remove the Starboard side dodger to ease communication. When everyone is set in the locks, they open some valves, and the water goes up or down rather quickly. Going up, you tend to be pushed into the wall, and you have to fend off a bit. Going down, you're pulled away, so you just pay out, keeping enough tension on the lines to keep control. On the first several locks in Oswego, you mix one line and one pipe or cable, and have to fend off. After these, all the rest are easy! By the way, there's a charge to use the canal. My memory is that it was $22 for a 2-day pass, and about $75 for a season. We figured about 3-4 days, so we got two 2-day passes. The second was undated, so we had a bit of freedom with the timing. You can buy the passes at the first lock in Oswego. Raising the Mast The mast is usually raised in Catskill, NY, a small creek about 36 miles after the Federal Lock. There are two marinas there that can handle it. We used Riverview Marine, the first one on the right. Their crane is busy this time of year, so call ahead to get a time reserved. Plan on spending a day, since they'll need a high tide (or was that a low tide?), and it takes a few hours to get everything together. This is a good spot to gas up, go to a restaurant, switch crews, etc. Remember, this may the last time your mast is down for a few years: check it out carefully before it goes up. Where to Shop & Stay We rented a car in Whitby for all the last minute provisioning. There are supermarkets and a Wal-Mart within a few miles of PDQ. There's a chandlery a few blocks away, but they're expensive. We drove up a month earlier in a van filled with life cushions, anchors, etc. In Oswego, the Oswego Marina (first thing on your left) has a gas dock, pumpout, ships store, and mechanics. You'll have to stop here to checkin with Immigration (the videophone is outside the office) but you may have to meet customs in Phoenix, about 4-5 hours away. As predicted, we got bad info about Customs from Immigration; the folks at PDQ will tell you how to handle things. Oswego is a good place to stop, but if you did an overnight, you may want to forge on to Phoenix right away. In Phoenix, you can tie up right in the town center, with a market and restaurants within a hundred yards. After that, you'll be in the boonies for a few days. If you aren't planning to sightsee along the way, this could be your last store before Catskill. Most of the locks have docks before and after where you can tie up for the night. You should consult with the lockmasters, they will tell you if the kids hang out there til 3 in the morning, or the fishermen show up at 4. We stopped below lock 20 and above lock 8; both were in the "middle of nowhere." We took on 27 gallons of diesel in Oswego, another 44 in Catskill. I'd guess that the outboards will need an extra stop along the way. There are a number of small marinas along the way, but early in the season its pretty sleepy. New York City Going down the Hudson the scenery varies a lot, but it gets more built up and there's plenty of places to stop. The wind, of course was always on the nose, so we only got a few hours under sail. Its 100 miles from Catskill to NYC, you'll probably want to plan a stop taking into account the tides on the river and beyond. After a rather gentle, most rural, trip the Big Apple will be a bit of a shock. The Hudson has a fair current and a lot of chop from the ferries. The ferries "take no prisoners" so give them a wide berth. If you're headed South, I can't give any advice (yet) because we went around the Battery, through Hell Gate, and North to Long Island Sound. Hell Gate can be about as nasty a passage as possible. It is strongly recommended that you go through at slack tide. Ideally, try to come down the Hudson on the ebb, hit Hell Gate at slack, and continue to the Sound on the flood. Make sure you're monitoring VHF channel 13 (or was it 14?) for the barge traffic. They don't use their horns, they ask permission to pass on the "1" side (normal passing, port to port, or overtaking on the port side) or the "2" side. Well, that's it. By now you're probably about half-way home, you've logged close to 500 miles, maybe 85 engine hours (don't forget that oil & fuel filter change!), you've docked the boat about 40 times. The boat is truly yours now, the mast is up, and you're anxious to start sailing!"
 
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