Specifically, toddler age. I have a little girl (16 months) that I'd like to take with me on the Capri 22 this year. She is EXTREMELY active, even more so than all toddlers are, and ensuring her safety will be a bit of a challenge. Now obviously, this topic has been covered here before. I did some searching yesterday, and the consensus seems to be: 1. She needs a good PFD that goes through the legs (so she can't slide out). 2. Tether, preferably with some sort of quick release, mounted so that she can't get all the way to the transom. 3. Lifeline netting - some people are for it, some against. I'll have to make up my own mind about it. Those were basically the only points that I found discussed. Anybody else want to chime in; am I missing anything important? One issue that I'm mulling is where to attach the tether. I'd prefer not to drill or screw any more holes in the cockpit, but I'm not sure what of the existing hardware I can attach to. People with wheel-steered boats seemed to prefer the pedestal, but I have a tiller. TIA for any tips you can think of.
Kid safety
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Ben Just put a ring bolt on the companion bulkhead
and make the tether fast to that. The other thing that you haven't mentioned is allow her to become familar with the water and being in deep water. My oldest grand daughter could keep her head above water when she was one year old and didn't panic if she fell off some water toy.
and make the tether fast to that. The other thing that you haven't mentioned is allow her to become familar with the water and being in deep water. My oldest grand daughter could keep her head above water when she was one year old and didn't panic if she fell off some water toy.
Get her used to the PFD and Tether
One big thing is that she does not resent the tether and pfd. Make sure that she gets used to moving around with the PFD on. For little kids they can be very restricting. Teach her that wearing a PFD or being on a tether is part of being on the boat, and it is more common for her to have them on the boat than not. One thing that worked really well with my children was getting them in the water with a PFD and teaching them to stay upright with it. Also teaching them how to get in and out of the water. This helped them so that when they are on boats they can wear the PFD and not be stuck in the same spot for the whole time. I have a girl and a boy that love their PFDs, and a second girl (8 mos). I can't wait to introduce the second girl to her PFD this spring!
One big thing is that she does not resent the tether and pfd. Make sure that she gets used to moving around with the PFD on. For little kids they can be very restricting. Teach her that wearing a PFD or being on a tether is part of being on the boat, and it is more common for her to have them on the boat than not. One thing that worked really well with my children was getting them in the water with a PFD and teaching them to stay upright with it. Also teaching them how to get in and out of the water. This helped them so that when they are on boats they can wear the PFD and not be stuck in the same spot for the whole time. I have a girl and a boy that love their PFDs, and a second girl (8 mos). I can't wait to introduce the second girl to her PFD this spring!
Set an example for her
The best way to get kids to internalize the lesson of wearing a PFD and tether is to do so yourself. We always wear our PFD's whenever Northern Symphony isn't tied to a dock or anchored and we have a boat rule that says everybody is on tether when we are outside the harbor (even in good weather). We always do it, and they never argue! They also wear their PFD's when on the dock: In truth, the only times they've actually fallen in have been while looking at things from the dock!
The best way to get kids to internalize the lesson of wearing a PFD and tether is to do so yourself. We always wear our PFD's whenever Northern Symphony isn't tied to a dock or anchored and we have a boat rule that says everybody is on tether when we are outside the harbor (even in good weather). We always do it, and they never argue! They also wear their PFD's when on the dock: In truth, the only times they've actually fallen in have been while looking at things from the dock!
Swimming Lessons!
Be sure to get her into swimming lessons asap. This will help her get over any fear of the water. Be sure that everyone on board wears a PDF too!
Be sure to get her into swimming lessons asap. This will help her get over any fear of the water. Be sure that everyone on board wears a PDF too!
Make Sure
Make sure you get her in a PFD that will float her face up. I would hope that all PFD's for kids would do this, but don't know that. I would go for the netting on the life lines, as this would allow an extra margin of safety. All the other suggestions here are valid. Do whatever it takes to be safe, and then let her enjoy.
Make sure you get her in a PFD that will float her face up. I would hope that all PFD's for kids would do this, but don't know that. I would go for the netting on the life lines, as this would allow an extra margin of safety. All the other suggestions here are valid. Do whatever it takes to be safe, and then let her enjoy.
No holes required
...At least not necessarily. As long as your boat now has a bow cleat and stern cleat, I can't see any need to drill new holes for attachment points for the tether. Run a jackline (webbing or low-stretch cordage) from one cleat to the other, making sure to clinch it down real snug at the point of attachment, and without much slack in the line. Then you can clip the toddler to the jackline, rather than a fixed point. Good luck. I applaud you for starting her out really young. (And I second the motion of swimming lessons.) Pete s/v EmmieLou (O-322) Little Silver, NJ
...At least not necessarily. As long as your boat now has a bow cleat and stern cleat, I can't see any need to drill new holes for attachment points for the tether. Run a jackline (webbing or low-stretch cordage) from one cleat to the other, making sure to clinch it down real snug at the point of attachment, and without much slack in the line. Then you can clip the toddler to the jackline, rather than a fixed point. Good luck. I applaud you for starting her out really young. (And I second the motion of swimming lessons.) Pete s/v EmmieLou (O-322) Little Silver, NJ
The trick to that pfd
was getting my son to relax and let it hold him up. The first time he used one he walked into water deep enough and put himself over on his face. We were there to take care of things very quickly and there weren't any consequences. Playing games with the kids has helped them learn to relax and work with the safetys that are designed into the vest.
was getting my son to relax and let it hold him up. The first time he used one he walked into water deep enough and put himself over on his face. We were there to take care of things very quickly and there weren't any consequences. Playing games with the kids has helped them learn to relax and work with the safetys that are designed into the vest.
swimming lessons - check!
She was very comfortable playing in the water as an infant. She was about 6 - 8 months old during the warm weather last year, and very much enjoyed bobbing around in the public pool, and splashing in a kiddie pool in the back yard. She loves water, but hasn't actually been "swimming" since last year. We probably should have frequented the indoor pool during the winter, but it just didn't occur to us. Funny how cold weather took all thoughts of swimming out of my head. And I think I'll have to bite the bullet and buy a new PFD for myself. I'm not in the habit of wearing one unless the weather turns ugly, in part because the one I have is uncomfortable. But I have a smart kid, and if she doesn't see Mommy and Daddy wearing one, she'll never be happy with hers, and I don't want a running battle over it. I want boat time to be happy time.
She was very comfortable playing in the water as an infant. She was about 6 - 8 months old during the warm weather last year, and very much enjoyed bobbing around in the public pool, and splashing in a kiddie pool in the back yard. She loves water, but hasn't actually been "swimming" since last year. We probably should have frequented the indoor pool during the winter, but it just didn't occur to us. Funny how cold weather took all thoughts of swimming out of my head. And I think I'll have to bite the bullet and buy a new PFD for myself. I'm not in the habit of wearing one unless the weather turns ugly, in part because the one I have is uncomfortable. But I have a smart kid, and if she doesn't see Mommy and Daddy wearing one, she'll never be happy with hers, and I don't want a running battle over it. I want boat time to be happy time.
Different perspective
In addition to thinking how you will keep her safe (i have a 16 mo. granddaughter), consider how you are going to sail your boat when your first job is to be her babysitter. If there is another adult along, try to split the duty, so get them confident in sailing the boat. The mother has to have total confidence in you Captain. But in case you're alone with her consider: an autopilot two VHF radios, one strapped to you. a motor strong enough to get you turned around pronto, that starts on one pull every time MOB training and planning- are you going to jump out of the boat and swim for her if she's face down? could you throw a tethered floating rope past her before you jump to get you back aboard? Swim ladder? Work your plans out and practice. When i'm babysitting, we're basically doing what she wants to do, so be prepared to interrupt the sailing frequently, take breaks, very short destinations. I know it's totally wrong, but one of the skills of a 16 month old is to sit in a car seat for at least a while The best way to control her and keep her happy is to hold her, talk to her, show her interesting things. She wants to totally control you, so good luck.
In addition to thinking how you will keep her safe (i have a 16 mo. granddaughter), consider how you are going to sail your boat when your first job is to be her babysitter. If there is another adult along, try to split the duty, so get them confident in sailing the boat. The mother has to have total confidence in you Captain. But in case you're alone with her consider: an autopilot two VHF radios, one strapped to you. a motor strong enough to get you turned around pronto, that starts on one pull every time MOB training and planning- are you going to jump out of the boat and swim for her if she's face down? could you throw a tethered floating rope past her before you jump to get you back aboard? Swim ladder? Work your plans out and practice. When i'm babysitting, we're basically doing what she wants to do, so be prepared to interrupt the sailing frequently, take breaks, very short destinations. I know it's totally wrong, but one of the skills of a 16 month old is to sit in a car seat for at least a while The best way to control her and keep her happy is to hold her, talk to her, show her interesting things. She wants to totally control you, so good luck.
good points, Dan
As I mentioned, this is one active kid. Sitting down simply isn't one of her activities; she comes from a long line of athletic tomboys. One thing I can say with a certainty is that it won't be just me and her at this point, because I don't have enough hands to sail and control a toddler. Hell, I can barely keep a lid on her in the house. What I'm planning for the first trip out is her, my wife, and myself on a calm day. I'll head to the dock first and get the o/b running; if it's already on when she walks toward the boat it won't startle her. Get the jib hanked, but leave it on deck for a while. Then proceed to motor upwind and enjoy the scenery, and let her get used to the boat. Then, raise the jib, turn downwind and enjoy a leisurely sail home. No heeling, and no boom movement on the first trip. If that short trip goes well, then we can expand our activities. Longer trips, and sailing upwind. But this year isn't about teaching her to sail well, it's about making sure that she enjoys the boat.
As I mentioned, this is one active kid. Sitting down simply isn't one of her activities; she comes from a long line of athletic tomboys. One thing I can say with a certainty is that it won't be just me and her at this point, because I don't have enough hands to sail and control a toddler. Hell, I can barely keep a lid on her in the house. What I'm planning for the first trip out is her, my wife, and myself on a calm day. I'll head to the dock first and get the o/b running; if it's already on when she walks toward the boat it won't startle her. Get the jib hanked, but leave it on deck for a while. Then proceed to motor upwind and enjoy the scenery, and let her get used to the boat. Then, raise the jib, turn downwind and enjoy a leisurely sail home. No heeling, and no boom movement on the first trip. If that short trip goes well, then we can expand our activities. Longer trips, and sailing upwind. But this year isn't about teaching her to sail well, it's about making sure that she enjoys the boat.
Malcolm -
How is the car seat secured? I don't think we'll be using one, both because we have a daysailer that will be on short excursions, and because I can't envision my kid consenting to stay in it. (Though she is excellent at riding on long car trips, she may surprise me) But I'm still curious how you did it.
How is the car seat secured? I don't think we'll be using one, both because we have a daysailer that will be on short excursions, and because I can't envision my kid consenting to stay in it. (Though she is excellent at riding on long car trips, she may surprise me) But I'm still curious how you did it.
You are doing the right thing
We too sail on the Chesapeake Bay and our children have been on a sailboat since they were 2 years old... Here are our thoughts. First, and most importantly, WEAR a life jacket... Our rule has been if you are on the dock or the boat above deck (cockpit included) you wear your jacket. For adults if you are out of the cockpit and we are sailing (or motoring) you wear a lifejacket. Next: Selection of the right lifejacket.... We had the following requirements for a kid’s lifejacket: * Under any conditions, the person floats face up. * Crotch strap * Straps or zipper AND strap to secure the jacket * Lifting handle -- it is easier to get them back in the boat if you can grab them and pull them on board... The ladder was too difficult for them to negotiate in the earlier years. * Comfortable to wear. I am happy to say that on several occasions, I had to return to a locked boat with lifejackets because the kids forgot that they still had their lifejacket on until they tried to get in the car to go home. We chose the Mustang Sidekick (for what it is worth) http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/product.php?id=560 Second: we debated the tether approach and we could not find a good argument for using a tether with small children under our sailing conditions... and we had concerns about the danger of a 2 or 3 year old being dragged through the water and banging against the hull... A point of clarification we never sailed at night with the kids and if the conditions were very bad they stayed below or in the cockpit. Instead we went the net route... This served us well and as someone else noted, the only time our children ever fell in the water was when they were playing or running on the dock. Yes, each time they DID have their lifejackets on and the lift handle came in very handy for retrieving the child. Third: Talk with your children about what will happen should they (or anyone) fall overboard... Practice Man/Woman/child Overboard procedures with everyone... Make sure everyone knows their role. It was important to us that they understood how long it takes to drop/reduce sails and return to them so that they would not panic if they did not see the boat turn around right away..... We practice COB drills to this day... Sometimes with a fender, sometime with a hat, and other times, well with anything that will float... Just some thoughts.... Good luck
We too sail on the Chesapeake Bay and our children have been on a sailboat since they were 2 years old... Here are our thoughts. First, and most importantly, WEAR a life jacket... Our rule has been if you are on the dock or the boat above deck (cockpit included) you wear your jacket. For adults if you are out of the cockpit and we are sailing (or motoring) you wear a lifejacket. Next: Selection of the right lifejacket.... We had the following requirements for a kid’s lifejacket: * Under any conditions, the person floats face up. * Crotch strap * Straps or zipper AND strap to secure the jacket * Lifting handle -- it is easier to get them back in the boat if you can grab them and pull them on board... The ladder was too difficult for them to negotiate in the earlier years. * Comfortable to wear. I am happy to say that on several occasions, I had to return to a locked boat with lifejackets because the kids forgot that they still had their lifejacket on until they tried to get in the car to go home. We chose the Mustang Sidekick (for what it is worth) http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/product.php?id=560 Second: we debated the tether approach and we could not find a good argument for using a tether with small children under our sailing conditions... and we had concerns about the danger of a 2 or 3 year old being dragged through the water and banging against the hull... A point of clarification we never sailed at night with the kids and if the conditions were very bad they stayed below or in the cockpit. Instead we went the net route... This served us well and as someone else noted, the only time our children ever fell in the water was when they were playing or running on the dock. Yes, each time they DID have their lifejackets on and the lift handle came in very handy for retrieving the child. Third: Talk with your children about what will happen should they (or anyone) fall overboard... Practice Man/Woman/child Overboard procedures with everyone... Make sure everyone knows their role. It was important to us that they understood how long it takes to drop/reduce sails and return to them so that they would not panic if they did not see the boat turn around right away..... We practice COB drills to this day... Sometimes with a fender, sometime with a hat, and other times, well with anything that will float... Just some thoughts.... Good luck
Car seat
The car seat sits on a rubber shower mat to give it grip and the top is fastened to the lifelines by the tether on the seat. Not sure if the Capri has lifelines? We keep the seat on the low side of the boat when going to windward - ie. if we are on quite a heel going to windward and we are going to tack we also tack the seat (even though it will hold on the high side at 10 or 15 degrees of heel - we feel much better with the seat on the low side and it is much more comfortable for the occupant) Originally I was going to put a fastner at the bottom of the cockpit seat back on each side of the seat, however with the arrangement described above the seat hasn't moved on either of our boats over long distances and waves. As indicated - in real bad weather we put the young ones below secure in a berth that has a lee cloth - not sure if you can easily do this or not, however as a day sailor with your boat you won't be going long distances.
The car seat sits on a rubber shower mat to give it grip and the top is fastened to the lifelines by the tether on the seat. Not sure if the Capri has lifelines? We keep the seat on the low side of the boat when going to windward - ie. if we are on quite a heel going to windward and we are going to tack we also tack the seat (even though it will hold on the high side at 10 or 15 degrees of heel - we feel much better with the seat on the low side and it is much more comfortable for the occupant) Originally I was going to put a fastner at the bottom of the cockpit seat back on each side of the seat, however with the arrangement described above the seat hasn't moved on either of our boats over long distances and waves. As indicated - in real bad weather we put the young ones below secure in a berth that has a lee cloth - not sure if you can easily do this or not, however as a day sailor with your boat you won't be going long distances.
Good info, everybody
I'm still a bit nervous about this. I didn't get into boating until I was an adult, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge on how kids are handled on board boats. I can't just think back to my own childhood and remember how my parents handled this, because we didn't sail! I feel like I'm reinventing the wheel. Which is how I feel on a daily basis, anyway, since this is my first child. So I guess I'll do just fine, and continue to improvise! Thanks again to everybody for walking me through this. Having read some practical ideas here, I feel much more enthusiastic about it.
I'm still a bit nervous about this. I didn't get into boating until I was an adult, so I don't have any firsthand knowledge on how kids are handled on board boats. I can't just think back to my own childhood and remember how my parents handled this, because we didn't sail! I feel like I'm reinventing the wheel. Which is how I feel on a daily basis, anyway, since this is my first child. So I guess I'll do just fine, and continue to improvise! Thanks again to everybody for walking me through this. Having read some practical ideas here, I feel much more enthusiastic about it.
Great Posts! I only have a couple of things to add
The quiet of sailing may be more relaxing to your daughter than the motor noise. If you and your wife are not tense when the boat heels, your kid may just love it. Try to get out on a small rowboat or canoe. The kid can run and climb around from parent to parent, fall in with easy retrieval, climb in and out of the boat on shore or in shallow water, and generally play on and around the boat. My daughter is 10 now. She has been on boats from before she was born. As a newborn she liked the canoe best. It's quiet and the animals come close. She still loves to row or canoe along the shore and look at all the life on shore and in the shallow water. We're just back from a weekend with friends on their ODay 37. Emily was off in the rowboat by herself (pfd on and strict limits where she could go - I could see her at all times)for hours. Until Emily was about four, on anything over 20 feet, my wife was kid control and I was boat handler. That worked fine. Sometimes we would trade. My wife would handle the boat for a while and I would do kid duty. Netting and tether for sure. I would say kid stays in the cockpit until she's maybe two years old, then only on deck with an adult until she can swim, then still tether and pfd until you feel OK with just pfd.
The quiet of sailing may be more relaxing to your daughter than the motor noise. If you and your wife are not tense when the boat heels, your kid may just love it. Try to get out on a small rowboat or canoe. The kid can run and climb around from parent to parent, fall in with easy retrieval, climb in and out of the boat on shore or in shallow water, and generally play on and around the boat. My daughter is 10 now. She has been on boats from before she was born. As a newborn she liked the canoe best. It's quiet and the animals come close. She still loves to row or canoe along the shore and look at all the life on shore and in the shallow water. We're just back from a weekend with friends on their ODay 37. Emily was off in the rowboat by herself (pfd on and strict limits where she could go - I could see her at all times)for hours. Until Emily was about four, on anything over 20 feet, my wife was kid control and I was boat handler. That worked fine. Sometimes we would trade. My wife would handle the boat for a while and I would do kid duty. Netting and tether for sure. I would say kid stays in the cockpit until she's maybe two years old, then only on deck with an adult until she can swim, then still tether and pfd until you feel OK with just pfd.
One thing to keep in mind, Not all kids are equal!
My older grand daughter was four when I was working on Bietzpadlin and her Dad came by. The first that I knew they were present was when steph stepped off a ten foot step ladder into the cockpit. She said "Hi" and I responded. Then I asked if I needed to remind her to be careful she said "NO" and I told her not to get crazy and forget where she was. When I finished she went down first and I followed. The next year I taught her to climb trees. Her little sister needed three more years to get there.
My older grand daughter was four when I was working on Bietzpadlin and her Dad came by. The first that I knew they were present was when steph stepped off a ten foot step ladder into the cockpit. She said "Hi" and I responded. Then I asked if I needed to remind her to be careful she said "NO" and I told her not to get crazy and forget where she was. When I finished she went down first and I followed. The next year I taught her to climb trees. Her little sister needed three more years to get there.
This was my next question and glad I surfed for it first...Thank you for sharing these good ideas. Our first mate is 3 and quiet and quick. Hubby thought the netting was ugly until while on the sailboat we made an offer on, Hayden slipped twice and thats where he landed, safely. ~B/Seadance Abbey, Henry; 1842-1911 What do we plant when we plant the tree? We plant the ship that will cross the sea, We plant the mast to carry the sails, We plant the planks to withstand the gales- The keel, the keelson, and beam and knee- We plant the ship when we plant the tree. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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