I have repared my rudder blade and am reataching the lanyard. Question, is the lanyard to hold the rudder up or lock it down? Mine was set up to lock the rudder down but I question this set up. A rouph sketch of the proper set up would be appeceated
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Down
It's for holding it down. If you'd like a rough sketch email me at memajor@mpinet.net. Mark Major, s/v Lesismor, 86H23
It's for holding it down. If you'd like a rough sketch email me at memajor@mpinet.net. Mark Major, s/v Lesismor, 86H23
holdin it down
On the h23 the rudder lanyard locks in the cam cleat to hold the rudder in the down position...but I have a follow up question. While the boat is moored I pop the line so the rudder bobs to the surface, then I lash the tiller down to prevent the rudder from hitting against the outboard motor. This system seemed to work fine as long as the wind and surf didn't get too nasty in the cove, but as the season closed and I survived 2 nor' easter storms the tiller snapped and I almost lost the rudder. Now here is the question with perhaps an obvious answer...Should I in the future lift the entire rudder out of the water and lash the tiller(this seems to make sense), and if so how should I go about it. I was thinking about attaching some sort of stainless eye bolt to the back of the tiller and running a line up to the cockpit so I wouldn't have to fish for the rudder when it came time to shut down for the day. Anyway, any thoughts on this issue would be appreciated thanks Brian h23 kickin' back
On the h23 the rudder lanyard locks in the cam cleat to hold the rudder in the down position...but I have a follow up question. While the boat is moored I pop the line so the rudder bobs to the surface, then I lash the tiller down to prevent the rudder from hitting against the outboard motor. This system seemed to work fine as long as the wind and surf didn't get too nasty in the cove, but as the season closed and I survived 2 nor' easter storms the tiller snapped and I almost lost the rudder. Now here is the question with perhaps an obvious answer...Should I in the future lift the entire rudder out of the water and lash the tiller(this seems to make sense), and if so how should I go about it. I was thinking about attaching some sort of stainless eye bolt to the back of the tiller and running a line up to the cockpit so I wouldn't have to fish for the rudder when it came time to shut down for the day. Anyway, any thoughts on this issue would be appreciated thanks Brian h23 kickin' back
correction
What I meant was to attach an eye bolt to the posterior far aft end of the rudder ... and run a line through the pulley some how to create leverage in order to lift the whole thing up and out of the water from the cockpit. Hopefully this will help to clarify my question...or just confuse the heck out of anyone who reads this query.
What I meant was to attach an eye bolt to the posterior far aft end of the rudder ... and run a line through the pulley some how to create leverage in order to lift the whole thing up and out of the water from the cockpit. Hopefully this will help to clarify my question...or just confuse the heck out of anyone who reads this query.
Why the lock pin hole?
If the rudder needs to be held down by the lanyard then why is there a lock pin hole through the rudder and rudder housing. This can be used to lock the rudder blade in position. Locking the rudder up when at dock or when loading on the trailer appears to me as being very important. The rudder blade's weight seem suficant to hold it down. Some other boats I have had only locked the rudder up, while others lock the rudder in both positions ie up or down.
If the rudder needs to be held down by the lanyard then why is there a lock pin hole through the rudder and rudder housing. This can be used to lock the rudder blade in position. Locking the rudder up when at dock or when loading on the trailer appears to me as being very important. The rudder blade's weight seem suficant to hold it down. Some other boats I have had only locked the rudder up, while others lock the rudder in both positions ie up or down.
Slight differences, apparently
I presumed the 22 and 23 rudders the same, but apparently not. My 23 has no pin locking device up or down, just the cam cleat as Brian described to hold it down. I have never considered locking the rudder down, for it runs a few inches below the keel and when plowing furrows in the bottom of the Gulf, or pulling up crab pots, I like my rudder kicking up as an idiot warning. If it was pinned down, well, I just wouldn't have one by now. Anchored in weather I keep it down, in the slip I keep it floating, tiller tied, as Brian described. My lanyard is especially long, with a loop tied with a scaffold knot in such a manner I can slip it over the leading edge of the rudder holding it in an extreme up position for backing down the ramp. While sailing I've found what's important is that the line is the correct diameter so that the cam cleat gives while grounding, but holds as well when in heavy weather, when drag increases with sudden bursts excess of hull speed. Now let's offer this question to the forum: How did you deal with loss of your rudder? Mark Major, s/v Lesismor 86H23
I presumed the 22 and 23 rudders the same, but apparently not. My 23 has no pin locking device up or down, just the cam cleat as Brian described to hold it down. I have never considered locking the rudder down, for it runs a few inches below the keel and when plowing furrows in the bottom of the Gulf, or pulling up crab pots, I like my rudder kicking up as an idiot warning. If it was pinned down, well, I just wouldn't have one by now. Anchored in weather I keep it down, in the slip I keep it floating, tiller tied, as Brian described. My lanyard is especially long, with a loop tied with a scaffold knot in such a manner I can slip it over the leading edge of the rudder holding it in an extreme up position for backing down the ramp. While sailing I've found what's important is that the line is the correct diameter so that the cam cleat gives while grounding, but holds as well when in heavy weather, when drag increases with sudden bursts excess of hull speed. Now let's offer this question to the forum: How did you deal with loss of your rudder? Mark Major, s/v Lesismor 86H23
Dangerous design
Mark - mine rudder is same as yours....this summer in a fast tide and gusty wind I lost my motor and the line holding the rudder down broke. My rudder popped-up and I lost the ability to navigate...scarwd the daylights out of me since I was sailing through a mooring at the time. Check you line often!...Seth
Mark - mine rudder is same as yours....this summer in a fast tide and gusty wind I lost my motor and the line holding the rudder down broke. My rudder popped-up and I lost the ability to navigate...scarwd the daylights out of me since I was sailing through a mooring at the time. Check you line often!...Seth
Solution ?
Reading this thread with some interest and will tell you how I fixed this problem on my Catalina 22 years ago. I am not that familiar with the HUnter rudder but it sounds similar in design to the Catalina which is held down by compressing plates on each side of the rudder with a tighting bolt with a handle on one side It would keep rising up at awkward times. I drilled a hole through the plates and rudder. I then placed a 1/4 in. brass bolt through the hole and tightened with a wing nut. Before doing, this I sawed about half way through the bolt. In effect, I created a shear pin for the rudder so it would pop up if it hit something. This was unlikely since the swing keel was so much deeper than the rudder. Maybe this will give you some ideas on how to fix the problems you are having.
Reading this thread with some interest and will tell you how I fixed this problem on my Catalina 22 years ago. I am not that familiar with the HUnter rudder but it sounds similar in design to the Catalina which is held down by compressing plates on each side of the rudder with a tighting bolt with a handle on one side It would keep rising up at awkward times. I drilled a hole through the plates and rudder. I then placed a 1/4 in. brass bolt through the hole and tightened with a wing nut. Before doing, this I sawed about half way through the bolt. In effect, I created a shear pin for the rudder so it would pop up if it hit something. This was unlikely since the swing keel was so much deeper than the rudder. Maybe this will give you some ideas on how to fix the problems you are having.
almost lost the rudder
Mark...I almost lost the rudder...if I had it would have been the least of my worries since my 23 was 1 of 3 boats left floating at the anchorage after the storm. The tiller split in two due to the forces applied leaving the rudder at the mercy of the tidal surge and rought surf. When I got a chance to assess the damage I found that the brackets attached to the transom had broken their seal and were about to let go...another 12 hours and the rudder would have floated to an unknown destination. So in hindsight I believe that in the future it might be adventageous to set the rudder in the extreme up position while in the anchorage to prevent further damage or potential loss of the rudder itself. As of right now its going to need a little tlc to fill and fair the dings from smacking against the outboard. live and learn...all in all my first ever season was an educational not to mention lucky one. Brian h23
Mark...I almost lost the rudder...if I had it would have been the least of my worries since my 23 was 1 of 3 boats left floating at the anchorage after the storm. The tiller split in two due to the forces applied leaving the rudder at the mercy of the tidal surge and rought surf. When I got a chance to assess the damage I found that the brackets attached to the transom had broken their seal and were about to let go...another 12 hours and the rudder would have floated to an unknown destination. So in hindsight I believe that in the future it might be adventageous to set the rudder in the extreme up position while in the anchorage to prevent further damage or potential loss of the rudder itself. As of right now its going to need a little tlc to fill and fair the dings from smacking against the outboard. live and learn...all in all my first ever season was an educational not to mention lucky one. Brian h23
Rudder
The rudder on the (81) H22 is foam (made by Foss foam) and it floats. That is why the line is set up to hold it in the down position. The upper half of the rudder should not be compressed against the sides of the lower (foam) half. The movement should be fairly free.
The rudder on the (81) H22 is foam (made by Foss foam) and it floats. That is why the line is set up to hold it in the down position. The upper half of the rudder should not be compressed against the sides of the lower (foam) half. The movement should be fairly free.
Don't pin it down
In the Hunter 23, the line for locking the rudder comes from the aft top part of the rudder, through a block and locks into a cam cleat. This line locks the rudder in the DOWN position when it is tensioned through the cleat! However, the design is such that there is a slight "give" if you touch the bottom. If your design is similar, you will realize your error immediately upon launching - The rudder will float out of the water. Again, if yours is like the 23, don't drill holes to lock the rudder in the DOWN position -speaking from experience! The rudder is the deepest part of the boat and your first indication that you are somewhere you shouldn't be. I now use the hole and quick release pin to lock my rudder in the UP position for trailering ONLY. Hope this was of some use to you. Happy sailing.
In the Hunter 23, the line for locking the rudder comes from the aft top part of the rudder, through a block and locks into a cam cleat. This line locks the rudder in the DOWN position when it is tensioned through the cleat! However, the design is such that there is a slight "give" if you touch the bottom. If your design is similar, you will realize your error immediately upon launching - The rudder will float out of the water. Again, if yours is like the 23, don't drill holes to lock the rudder in the DOWN position -speaking from experience! The rudder is the deepest part of the boat and your first indication that you are somewhere you shouldn't be. I now use the hole and quick release pin to lock my rudder in the UP position for trailering ONLY. Hope this was of some use to you. Happy sailing.
Thanks
I thank all of you for the insite. It has prevented me from makeing a grave error. Thanks Jim Honeyman
I thank all of you for the insite. It has prevented me from makeing a grave error. Thanks Jim Honeyman
Rudder weight
With so much Hunter rudder savvy out there, is there anyone that can answer the question I posed a few days ago? (To the best of my knowledge the rudder is not filled with water). "Why is the 19_93-96 rudder so damn heavy? I almost dropped a nut trying to get it out from under the trailer where it was stowed?" It strikes me as a poor design choice if there is weight added to the rudder just to hold it down.
With so much Hunter rudder savvy out there, is there anyone that can answer the question I posed a few days ago? (To the best of my knowledge the rudder is not filled with water). "Why is the 19_93-96 rudder so damn heavy? I almost dropped a nut trying to get it out from under the trailer where it was stowed?" It strikes me as a poor design choice if there is weight added to the rudder just to hold it down.
quick release pin on 23?
John, did you install or customize the rudder setup with a quick release pin to keep the rudder in the upright position or was it added at the factory. Question is I never noticed it on my 23 last season, if I even have the option. If you did add it maybe a few specifications could help me install one for myself. thanks Brian Kickin' Back H23
John, did you install or customize the rudder setup with a quick release pin to keep the rudder in the upright position or was it added at the factory. Question is I never noticed it on my 23 last season, if I even have the option. If you did add it maybe a few specifications could help me install one for myself. thanks Brian Kickin' Back H23
quick release pin
Brian, First I secured the rudder in the maximum up position. Then I drilled a hole sized for the quick release pin through the aluminum case and rudder - My drill had a level indicator so the hole was straight through both sides of the aluminum case!! ( I made several trial drill holes on a scrap piece of metal to size the pin) The hole should be large enough to accept the pin. However, it should not be too large that the pin will go all the way in or out without depressing the quick release mechanism. The quick release pins are available at West Marine in various sizes. I used one that I guessed was sturdy enough to accept the weight of the rudder. Next, I secured the pin to the left side of the aluminum casing - aft looking fwd- with a lanyard. When the boat is out of the water, I simply lift the rudder up and pin it. I can also Pin the rudder from the cock pit while in the water after driving up on the trailer - However, I sometime forget because I am so focused on the retrevial process
. In the water, I simply release the line that secures the rudder in the down position. I will then pin the rudder when it foats up. For added safety, I still secure the rudder in the up position with line before driving! Hope I did not exceed my word limit on this!
Brian, First I secured the rudder in the maximum up position. Then I drilled a hole sized for the quick release pin through the aluminum case and rudder - My drill had a level indicator so the hole was straight through both sides of the aluminum case!! ( I made several trial drill holes on a scrap piece of metal to size the pin) The hole should be large enough to accept the pin. However, it should not be too large that the pin will go all the way in or out without depressing the quick release mechanism. The quick release pins are available at West Marine in various sizes. I used one that I guessed was sturdy enough to accept the weight of the rudder. Next, I secured the pin to the left side of the aluminum casing - aft looking fwd- with a lanyard. When the boat is out of the water, I simply lift the rudder up and pin it. I can also Pin the rudder from the cock pit while in the water after driving up on the trailer - However, I sometime forget because I am so focused on the retrevial process
. In the water, I simply release the line that secures the rudder in the down position. I will then pin the rudder when it foats up. For added safety, I still secure the rudder in the up position with line before driving! Hope I did not exceed my word limit on this!problem solved!!!
John, your response has solved a dillema I was having while at the mooring. There were a few nor' easters that snuck up the coast this Fall that almost took my rudder with them. I was thinking that during periods of time when I would be away from the boat, say longer than a week, I could either remove the rudder or even better...lock it in an upright position out of the water. Your system sounds like it is just the thing to do. Thanks for the input Brian h23 kickin' back
John, your response has solved a dillema I was having while at the mooring. There were a few nor' easters that snuck up the coast this Fall that almost took my rudder with them. I was thinking that during periods of time when I would be away from the boat, say longer than a week, I could either remove the rudder or even better...lock it in an upright position out of the water. Your system sounds like it is just the thing to do. Thanks for the input Brian h23 kickin' back
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