So far, everyone I have spoken to ( in person and not on this site ) that has owned a ketch and went back to a sloop said that they wished they had a ketch again. From your own experience, which one do you prefer?
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C
Chris
Ketch or yawl
is more work to raise/lower/reef sails, but gives great sail b alance, allowing you to self-steer for long periods with the tiller/wheel lashed admidship. Small adjustments to the mizzen make it a snap. Read Slocomb!! He self-steered, as I remember, from Oz for a couple of thousand miles without making any corrections and made his landfall! While we are not all navigators par excellence, that is an indication of how a well balanced rig will behave.
is more work to raise/lower/reef sails, but gives great sail b alance, allowing you to self-steer for long periods with the tiller/wheel lashed admidship. Small adjustments to the mizzen make it a snap. Read Slocomb!! He self-steered, as I remember, from Oz for a couple of thousand miles without making any corrections and made his landfall! While we are not all navigators par excellence, that is an indication of how a well balanced rig will behave.
C
Capt Ron;-)
Joshua Slocum
Chris, Slocums yacht was a cutter, he added what he referred to as "a jigger" which technically made the "Spray" a yawl, very small mizzen. He used a 'backwinded' jib to help self-steer, with the jib sheets run through several directional blocks to the tiller; fall off the sheet tugs the tiller...
Chris, Slocums yacht was a cutter, he added what he referred to as "a jigger" which technically made the "Spray" a yawl, very small mizzen. He used a 'backwinded' jib to help self-steer, with the jib sheets run through several directional blocks to the tiller; fall off the sheet tugs the tiller...
J
Jack Tyler
Tony, you probably aren't Slocum...
Tony, I'm pretty sure that not every sloop owner who has owned a split rig, ketch or yawl, is going to forevermore say they wished they had a split rig again. Instead, I would guess it's highly dependent on the type of sailing they do. And the same is true for you - a split rig may make sense for you, or not, depending on your sailing plans. As an example, one thing that left my wife & I feeling comfortable taking our 42'/13M ketch across the Atlantic, two handed, was that we had previously discovered we could handle its ketch rig while crossing the Caribbean. However, put me back in St. Pete and doing local or coastal sailing and I'm sure I'd prefer the simplicity of the sloop rig, especially given that the boat would no doubt be smaller as well. Split rigs allow one to get up more sail area, step down the sail area more incrementally, allow you to balance the sail plan more easily, and allow you to do all this work with smaller sails (for a given total sail area) than sloop rigs. OTOH split rigs require more work for most evolutions, add weight & cost to the boat, and they can add conflicts between the rig and the boat (e.g. cockpit functionality or options for mounting solar panels). They make sense when the disadvantages are outweighed by the advantages; they aren't magic bullets. Finally, don't overlook the 'nostalgia' factor. Someone may be saying they prefer the ketch because that's the rig (and boat) that got them into the South Pacific a decade ago. We sailors have a hard time being objective about such subjective subjects.<g> Jack
Tony, I'm pretty sure that not every sloop owner who has owned a split rig, ketch or yawl, is going to forevermore say they wished they had a split rig again. Instead, I would guess it's highly dependent on the type of sailing they do. And the same is true for you - a split rig may make sense for you, or not, depending on your sailing plans. As an example, one thing that left my wife & I feeling comfortable taking our 42'/13M ketch across the Atlantic, two handed, was that we had previously discovered we could handle its ketch rig while crossing the Caribbean. However, put me back in St. Pete and doing local or coastal sailing and I'm sure I'd prefer the simplicity of the sloop rig, especially given that the boat would no doubt be smaller as well. Split rigs allow one to get up more sail area, step down the sail area more incrementally, allow you to balance the sail plan more easily, and allow you to do all this work with smaller sails (for a given total sail area) than sloop rigs. OTOH split rigs require more work for most evolutions, add weight & cost to the boat, and they can add conflicts between the rig and the boat (e.g. cockpit functionality or options for mounting solar panels). They make sense when the disadvantages are outweighed by the advantages; they aren't magic bullets. Finally, don't overlook the 'nostalgia' factor. Someone may be saying they prefer the ketch because that's the rig (and boat) that got them into the South Pacific a decade ago. We sailors have a hard time being objective about such subjective subjects.<g> Jack
C
Chris
Ron, you're quite right
Now I remember...it's been awhile since I read him, have to revisit. The point about balance still stands, tho', along with being able to incrementally adjust sail area and balance.
Now I remember...it's been awhile since I read him, have to revisit. The point about balance still stands, tho', along with being able to incrementally adjust sail area and balance.
T
Tom Hoppin
more options with a yawl or ketch
Here are some other interesting options with yawls and ketches I would like to add to the other responses on this subject. 1) The yawl/ketch can always be sailed as though it were single masted, with mainsail and jib only - keeping the mechanics simple as needed or desired . . . 2) A yawl/ketch can keep its mizzensail up when at anchor (when cruising but with crew on board, please) thereby keeping the boat headed steadily in to the wind and less subject to swinging on the anchor. 3) A yawl/ketch can be handled in ways a marconi rig can't, that is by dropping the main and using its mizzen and a bit of its roller-furled jib extended to maneuver using sails alone - by driving forward slowly with the sails drawing normally, or turning quickly by "backing" either or both sails appropriately, and I have even backed a boat under control into a slip under sail by using this method (I had a good crew, and the wind was in the right direction and at a suitable steady speed) 4) A yawl/ketch, with proper heavy weather "jib and jigger", can handle gale and storm wind conditions with more options than with a single masted boat 5) On a broad reach I have sailed with five sails up at the same time on yawls - spinnaker, fore staysail, mainsail, mizzen staysail, and mizzen - lots of laundry, lots of lines to tend - - - and it is always a special experience, perhaps not for everyone, but it is a real kick for many. I can keep visiting crew members busy tending lots of sails and it has always been a positive experience they never forget. Some downsides - - - 6) Dodgers and biminis on yawl/ketches typically have to be collapsible since the mizzen staysail cuts across the dodger site, and a bimini can't fold back if the main boom is end sheeted . . . wind generators can't be mounted on the stern rail on a "mast" given that the mizzen is there . . . . many two masted rigs can't have dinghy davits over the stern . . . 7) Ratings for multi-class racing were changed in the 70's to reduce the sail area advantages of yawls and ketches - so two masted boats now actually have a disadvantage in this department: and, frankly, in my experience, yawls and ketches 'typically' do not point quite as well as well tuned sloops.
Here are some other interesting options with yawls and ketches I would like to add to the other responses on this subject. 1) The yawl/ketch can always be sailed as though it were single masted, with mainsail and jib only - keeping the mechanics simple as needed or desired . . . 2) A yawl/ketch can keep its mizzensail up when at anchor (when cruising but with crew on board, please) thereby keeping the boat headed steadily in to the wind and less subject to swinging on the anchor. 3) A yawl/ketch can be handled in ways a marconi rig can't, that is by dropping the main and using its mizzen and a bit of its roller-furled jib extended to maneuver using sails alone - by driving forward slowly with the sails drawing normally, or turning quickly by "backing" either or both sails appropriately, and I have even backed a boat under control into a slip under sail by using this method (I had a good crew, and the wind was in the right direction and at a suitable steady speed) 4) A yawl/ketch, with proper heavy weather "jib and jigger", can handle gale and storm wind conditions with more options than with a single masted boat 5) On a broad reach I have sailed with five sails up at the same time on yawls - spinnaker, fore staysail, mainsail, mizzen staysail, and mizzen - lots of laundry, lots of lines to tend - - - and it is always a special experience, perhaps not for everyone, but it is a real kick for many. I can keep visiting crew members busy tending lots of sails and it has always been a positive experience they never forget. Some downsides - - - 6) Dodgers and biminis on yawl/ketches typically have to be collapsible since the mizzen staysail cuts across the dodger site, and a bimini can't fold back if the main boom is end sheeted . . . wind generators can't be mounted on the stern rail on a "mast" given that the mizzen is there . . . . many two masted rigs can't have dinghy davits over the stern . . . 7) Ratings for multi-class racing were changed in the 70's to reduce the sail area advantages of yawls and ketches - so two masted boats now actually have a disadvantage in this department: and, frankly, in my experience, yawls and ketches 'typically' do not point quite as well as well tuned sloops.
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