What are the advantages and disadvantages of a ketch setup on a sailboat compared to a standard sloop rig.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
David
Ketch
Some advantages...More sail area at a lower center of gravity provides a stiffer sailing vessel. More options for how much sail you want to set in different conditions. Some disadvantages...Additional mast (mizzin) to maintain and rig. Additional sail to maintain.
Some advantages...More sail area at a lower center of gravity provides a stiffer sailing vessel. More options for how much sail you want to set in different conditions. Some disadvantages...Additional mast (mizzin) to maintain and rig. Additional sail to maintain.
T
Trevor
Sailplan
I've owned and sailed both ketches and sloops. The main advantages with a ketch are that you have a much more varied sailplan and the rig height is typically shorter (i.e. lower center of gravity for less heel). Reefing is not needed as often, since one can run with just a "jib & jigger", or just the smaller mizzen and jib when overpowered. A mizzen staysail (rigged between aft mizzen mast and main mast) is a great option that's easy to rig on a ketch. The mizzen mast also makes a great location for a radar scanner since it won't interfere with the jib. A sloop, however, can generally point higher and is easier to manage (less rigging to worry about). It's also less maintenance and initial cost (i.e. replacing running and standing rigging). Depending on the deck layout, it's easier to trim the mainsail with easier access to outhaul, vang, and traveller. I like both ketches and sloops - it just depends on how you like to sail (and of course, what catches your eye!) Best, Trevor
I've owned and sailed both ketches and sloops. The main advantages with a ketch are that you have a much more varied sailplan and the rig height is typically shorter (i.e. lower center of gravity for less heel). Reefing is not needed as often, since one can run with just a "jib & jigger", or just the smaller mizzen and jib when overpowered. A mizzen staysail (rigged between aft mizzen mast and main mast) is a great option that's easy to rig on a ketch. The mizzen mast also makes a great location for a radar scanner since it won't interfere with the jib. A sloop, however, can generally point higher and is easier to manage (less rigging to worry about). It's also less maintenance and initial cost (i.e. replacing running and standing rigging). Depending on the deck layout, it's easier to trim the mainsail with easier access to outhaul, vang, and traveller. I like both ketches and sloops - it just depends on how you like to sail (and of course, what catches your eye!) Best, Trevor
S
Steve Carpman
Ketch - Easier to Handle
I agree with all that has been written in the other two responses. Another advantage is a ketch can virtually be parked by dropping the main and jib and sheeting the in mizzen. This is a great way to heave to when the need arises or to stop the boat from sailing at anchor like many Hunters are prone to do. Also, the ketch can more easily be handled by a smaller (older?)crew or single handed.
I agree with all that has been written in the other two responses. Another advantage is a ketch can virtually be parked by dropping the main and jib and sheeting the in mizzen. This is a great way to heave to when the need arises or to stop the boat from sailing at anchor like many Hunters are prone to do. Also, the ketch can more easily be handled by a smaller (older?)crew or single handed.
J
John
ketch boats
Are there any production ketchs that are under 28 ft that are built today? If not, what are some good used ketch boats on the market?
Are there any production ketchs that are under 28 ft that are built today? If not, what are some good used ketch boats on the market?
D
David
Production Ketch
I don't know if anyone still builds a production ketch that small. Sabre built a 28' ketch in the early days. A friend of mine has one with a relatively new 2GM in it. I think it may be for sale.
I don't know if anyone still builds a production ketch that small. Sabre built a 28' ketch in the early days. A friend of mine has one with a relatively new 2GM in it. I think it may be for sale.
M
Mike Casucci
T
Tom Monroe
Flexibility and complexity ...
... are the tradeoffs in a ketch or yawl. I raced a yawl extensively back in the late 70's when the racing rules weren't completely prohibitive. Lots of sail combinations possible to meet almost any condition. Points almost as well as a sloop 'cause more of the sailplan is devoted to headsail/mainsail combo. Off the wind, a yawl (or ketch) really shine. You can often set 5 sails (spinnaker, forestaysail, main, mizzen staysail, and mizzen). I think there is also a topsail that can go in there set on the main backstay, but we never did that, although one day I was beginning to think through setting the working jib upside down ... Oh yeah, best feature ... the mizzen mast makes a great place to hang on to when you're taking a leak off the stern! And the mizzen makes a great steering sail in close quarters. But ... Staying the mizzen mast can be problematic, and if you're going to want to use the mizzen as the wind gets up, you have to have it properly stayed. More standing rigging to maintain, as others have mentioned, and I once counted 17 running lines to tend as I circled the boat tending sail. On a small boat, I don't think it's efficient enough to be practical, which is why you seldom see the rig in less than 35 foot. If I could afford a 35 foot boat, I'd sail a yawl. IMHO ... Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
... are the tradeoffs in a ketch or yawl. I raced a yawl extensively back in the late 70's when the racing rules weren't completely prohibitive. Lots of sail combinations possible to meet almost any condition. Points almost as well as a sloop 'cause more of the sailplan is devoted to headsail/mainsail combo. Off the wind, a yawl (or ketch) really shine. You can often set 5 sails (spinnaker, forestaysail, main, mizzen staysail, and mizzen). I think there is also a topsail that can go in there set on the main backstay, but we never did that, although one day I was beginning to think through setting the working jib upside down ... Oh yeah, best feature ... the mizzen mast makes a great place to hang on to when you're taking a leak off the stern! And the mizzen makes a great steering sail in close quarters. But ... Staying the mizzen mast can be problematic, and if you're going to want to use the mizzen as the wind gets up, you have to have it properly stayed. More standing rigging to maintain, as others have mentioned, and I once counted 17 running lines to tend as I circled the boat tending sail. On a small boat, I don't think it's efficient enough to be practical, which is why you seldom see the rig in less than 35 foot. If I could afford a 35 foot boat, I'd sail a yawl. IMHO ... Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
B
Bob
Say, Tom,
two questions: 1. How do you raise the mizzen sail on a yawl if it's not already on the boom? 2. How do you work the kink out of your neck from checking its trim?
two questions: 1. How do you raise the mizzen sail on a yawl if it's not already on the boom? 2. How do you work the kink out of your neck from checking its trim?
T
Tom Monroe
Bob ... kinks in the neck ...
... seem to happen to me on any boat! But yeah, on a yawl, by definition, the mizzen is behind you. Give the sheet to a crew member who likes the past better than the future. Unless you're baiting me, the mizzen IS on a boom. If you mean the mizzen staysail, it is raised on a halyard to the top of the mizzen mast, tacked to a padeye or some such near the aft lower shroud, and sheeted to the end of the mizzen boom. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
... seem to happen to me on any boat! But yeah, on a yawl, by definition, the mizzen is behind you. Give the sheet to a crew member who likes the past better than the future. Unless you're baiting me, the mizzen IS on a boom. If you mean the mizzen staysail, it is raised on a halyard to the top of the mizzen mast, tacked to a padeye or some such near the aft lower shroud, and sheeted to the end of the mizzen boom. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
B
Bob
No, what I mean Tom
is, from the moment you take the mizzen sail out of the bag, how do you feed its foot out onto the mizzen boom? Especially at sea, in wind? It's a serious, if dumb, question.
is, from the moment you take the mizzen sail out of the bag, how do you feed its foot out onto the mizzen boom? Especially at sea, in wind? It's a serious, if dumb, question.
T
Tom Monroe
Bob ... Now I understand
One of the other things that seems to have disappeared from boats these days is aft overhangs. All the boats these days have their sterns chopped off for swim platforms, etc. A mizzen mast stpeed aft of the rudder post (thus a yawl) would indeed be just sticking out in space, and you'd have a heck of a time figuring out how to stay it. But, on the yawls that I see, and even on current yawls designs where you find them, there's still an overhang you can stand on aft of the mizzen mast. The whole thing isn't just sticking out into space. On the yawl I raced, there was a lazarrette locker back there aft of where the mizzen mast was stepped. Mostly the mizzen is treated just like the main ... bent on at the beginning of the season, and stowed under a sail cover when not in use. You can furl it and cover it by standing next to the boom on the stern overhang. It's not a "temporary" sail, brought up out of the sail locker and raised under certain conditions. It's up most of the time. (Exceptions ... sometimes won't draw right when hard on the wind 'cause it sits in the spill off the main, and dead downwind, it can blanket the main) Regards, Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
One of the other things that seems to have disappeared from boats these days is aft overhangs. All the boats these days have their sterns chopped off for swim platforms, etc. A mizzen mast stpeed aft of the rudder post (thus a yawl) would indeed be just sticking out in space, and you'd have a heck of a time figuring out how to stay it. But, on the yawls that I see, and even on current yawls designs where you find them, there's still an overhang you can stand on aft of the mizzen mast. The whole thing isn't just sticking out into space. On the yawl I raced, there was a lazarrette locker back there aft of where the mizzen mast was stepped. Mostly the mizzen is treated just like the main ... bent on at the beginning of the season, and stowed under a sail cover when not in use. You can furl it and cover it by standing next to the boom on the stern overhang. It's not a "temporary" sail, brought up out of the sail locker and raised under certain conditions. It's up most of the time. (Exceptions ... sometimes won't draw right when hard on the wind 'cause it sits in the spill off the main, and dead downwind, it can blanket the main) Regards, Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
- Status
- Not open for further replies.