My wife and I have just purchased a Hunter Legend 375. As it was built in the Southern US it has an air conditioning/heat exchange mechanism. I am replacing it with an Espar furnace with the water flow heat transfer that can be connected to the current water heater. My question is what size of Espar to use, a 10Kw or 5Kw? We will most likely be living on and sailing from April to October. Does anyone have any comments or suggestions as to what they have in their boat and how well it works at producing comfortable, efficiently circulated heat.
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depends
George, I think that depends on your local climate. I have the smallest webasto water flow heat transfer system, and find it sufficient to heat my H410 in San Francisco Bay. The system never seems to struggle to keep the boat warm, even on the coldest days. Your coldest days up there in BC might be a bit chillier than my coldest days, however. For my part, I'm glad I went with the smaller system because of its efficiency.
George, I think that depends on your local climate. I have the smallest webasto water flow heat transfer system, and find it sufficient to heat my H410 in San Francisco Bay. The system never seems to struggle to keep the boat warm, even on the coldest days. Your coldest days up there in BC might be a bit chillier than my coldest days, however. For my part, I'm glad I went with the smaller system because of its efficiency.
Espar D$
I have just ordered the Espar D4 Air sysem for our 33.5. We are only looking to make our Spring and Fall weekends on board comfortable. I am curious to know why you have chosen water over air. The Espar web site has a sizing chart based on boat length, however you should speak to the local represenative as he can better size the unit based on your application and region. Merrill Ambition
I have just ordered the Espar D4 Air sysem for our 33.5. We are only looking to make our Spring and Fall weekends on board comfortable. I am curious to know why you have chosen water over air. The Espar web site has a sizing chart based on boat length, however you should speak to the local represenative as he can better size the unit based on your application and region. Merrill Ambition
Espar D4
I have just ordered the Espar D4 Air sysem for our 33.5. We are only looking to make our Spring and Fall weekends on board comfortable. I am curious to know why you have chosen water over air. The Espar web site has a sizing chart based on boat length, however you should speak to the local represenative as he can better size the unit based on your application and region. Merrill Ambition
I have just ordered the Espar D4 Air sysem for our 33.5. We are only looking to make our Spring and Fall weekends on board comfortable. I am curious to know why you have chosen water over air. The Espar web site has a sizing chart based on boat length, however you should speak to the local represenative as he can better size the unit based on your application and region. Merrill Ambition
Where did you buy the D4 from?
We talked to Boat Electric at the Seattle Boat show about the Espar units. Using their magic equation, we figured that the D4 was about the right size our Vision 32. My question is, where did you actually buy the unit from? Are you having it installed, or doing it yourself? thanks for the info... matt
We talked to Boat Electric at the Seattle Boat show about the Espar units. Using their magic equation, we figured that the D4 was about the right size our Vision 32. My question is, where did you actually buy the unit from? Are you having it installed, or doing it yourself? thanks for the info... matt
Congratulations
You have a great boat and a great place to keep it. We hang out in Genoa Bay from time to time and have a reciprocal at the Maple Bay Yacht Club, so we also tie up on the outside of their docks occasionally. Good Sailing Richard Owen
You have a great boat and a great place to keep it. We hang out in Genoa Bay from time to time and have a reciprocal at the Maple Bay Yacht Club, so we also tie up on the outside of their docks occasionally. Good Sailing Richard Owen
Cruising with Hunters
As we are new to the Gulf Islands but not to sailing, are there any Hunter cruising groups that we can join or at least contact. I contacted the Hunter North West Cruising contact at Specialty Yachts but have yet to get a reply.
As we are new to the Gulf Islands but not to sailing, are there any Hunter cruising groups that we can join or at least contact. I contacted the Hunter North West Cruising contact at Specialty Yachts but have yet to get a reply.
Espar D4
Hello Matt, As I understand the D4 has been replaced with a new model D5LC. It has more settings for comfort and less noise. Actually, I am having the Hydronic 5 installed by a mechanic who will tap it into the present water heater. Cheers.
Hello Matt, As I understand the D4 has been replaced with a new model D5LC. It has more settings for comfort and less noise. Actually, I am having the Hydronic 5 installed by a mechanic who will tap it into the present water heater. Cheers.
Hydronic 5
Hello Merrill, We are installing the Hydronic 5 to get additional hot water from the Espar while we are sailing or an anchor without using either shore power or the diesel. There is existing duct work in the boat for an old air conditioning system. The Espar rep indicated that the current duct work may not be suitable for a new Espar forced air sytem as the air temperature is very hot! Cheers.
Hello Merrill, We are installing the Hydronic 5 to get additional hot water from the Espar while we are sailing or an anchor without using either shore power or the diesel. There is existing duct work in the boat for an old air conditioning system. The Espar rep indicated that the current duct work may not be suitable for a new Espar forced air sytem as the air temperature is very hot! Cheers.
Forced Air vs Hot Water
I've been looking at the Espar hot water system for some time now and talked at length to the people at Boat Electric in Seattle who are the distributors for the area. One thing I learned that was really interesting is the forced air has one major advantage for Northwest boaters: it brings in DRY air into the cabin. The advantage of dry air is it helps to combat moisture and humidity much better. The hot water system basically just recirculates the existing cabin air - and moisture. On our recent trip to SE Alaska, which is similar to BC and Puget Sound, the one thing we had to battle was condensation, mold, and mildew so forced air is ideal in this environment. However, Boat Electric said that it's possible to design the Hydronic system so that some outside air can be brought into the cabin and emulate a forced air system. Other Hydronic issues, to me, are (1) the computerized nature of the Hydronic. It has a computer module that keeps track of everything (good) and will shut the system down when things aren't working right (good and bad). Trying to trouble shoot the system on your own may not be easy (bad). Forces one to take the unit into the dealer to get things fixed (really bad - I like to be self sufficient). (2) Another downside to the hot water system is the installation is quite sophisticated and not really suitable for the do it yourselfer. It is absolutely critical to have no air in the system and therefore the system must be properly designed with great attention to detail. Another critical item is the voltage available at startup (per Boat Electric): low voltage due to undersized conductors and/or low battery voltage will ruin the heater but this is true with any sophisticated heater installation. The good side of the Hydronic is (1) the small size of the Hydronic heater, (2) distribution system does not require large holes in the boat (really good), and (3) one can make HOT WATER!!!! (really, really good) All three are major pluses! Size? Getting back to your question - because our climate is fairly mild about 90 percent of the year, the D5 type Espar for either air or water should be a good size. The Boat Electric web site has a section on sizing but they CAUTION that boat size is not the only criterion. Web site: http://www.boatelectric.com/heating.htm
I've been looking at the Espar hot water system for some time now and talked at length to the people at Boat Electric in Seattle who are the distributors for the area. One thing I learned that was really interesting is the forced air has one major advantage for Northwest boaters: it brings in DRY air into the cabin. The advantage of dry air is it helps to combat moisture and humidity much better. The hot water system basically just recirculates the existing cabin air - and moisture. On our recent trip to SE Alaska, which is similar to BC and Puget Sound, the one thing we had to battle was condensation, mold, and mildew so forced air is ideal in this environment. However, Boat Electric said that it's possible to design the Hydronic system so that some outside air can be brought into the cabin and emulate a forced air system. Other Hydronic issues, to me, are (1) the computerized nature of the Hydronic. It has a computer module that keeps track of everything (good) and will shut the system down when things aren't working right (good and bad). Trying to trouble shoot the system on your own may not be easy (bad). Forces one to take the unit into the dealer to get things fixed (really bad - I like to be self sufficient). (2) Another downside to the hot water system is the installation is quite sophisticated and not really suitable for the do it yourselfer. It is absolutely critical to have no air in the system and therefore the system must be properly designed with great attention to detail. Another critical item is the voltage available at startup (per Boat Electric): low voltage due to undersized conductors and/or low battery voltage will ruin the heater but this is true with any sophisticated heater installation. The good side of the Hydronic is (1) the small size of the Hydronic heater, (2) distribution system does not require large holes in the boat (really good), and (3) one can make HOT WATER!!!! (really, really good) All three are major pluses! Size? Getting back to your question - because our climate is fairly mild about 90 percent of the year, the D5 type Espar for either air or water should be a good size. The Boat Electric web site has a section on sizing but they CAUTION that boat size is not the only criterion. Web site: http://www.boatelectric.com/heating.htm
Forced air - Dry Air???
John: I don't know why they would say that a forced air system is any dryer than a hot water system. I think that a forced air system must use recirculated air just like the hot water system, otherwise the required capacity to heat 100% outside air would be overwhelming. They may have "some" outside air but in our area (BC) it can't be very much. As you said, a hot water system can bring in "some" outaide air as well.
John: I don't know why they would say that a forced air system is any dryer than a hot water system. I think that a forced air system must use recirculated air just like the hot water system, otherwise the required capacity to heat 100% outside air would be overwhelming. They may have "some" outside air but in our area (BC) it can't be very much. As you said, a hot water system can bring in "some" outaide air as well.
Owned both
I've had both forced air and recirculating hot water on different boats of similar size. I don't know that the forced air system brings in air that is more dry, but it does a great job of moving a lot of warm/hot air through the boat. The net effect is very dry! However, the system is pretty noisy on many boats, especially when you're out on deck or dock. The water system was excellent, but it works like a radiator. It does not really move much air around and as a result, I found the cabin not as dry. However, without the sound of all that air moving through duct at high speed, it's very quiet. I live in Seattle. That said, if I had to do it again I would get forced air for the drying properties. in that regard it was clearly superior to the water system.
I've had both forced air and recirculating hot water on different boats of similar size. I don't know that the forced air system brings in air that is more dry, but it does a great job of moving a lot of warm/hot air through the boat. The net effect is very dry! However, the system is pretty noisy on many boats, especially when you're out on deck or dock. The water system was excellent, but it works like a radiator. It does not really move much air around and as a result, I found the cabin not as dry. However, without the sound of all that air moving through duct at high speed, it's very quiet. I live in Seattle. That said, if I had to do it again I would get forced air for the drying properties. in that regard it was clearly superior to the water system.
5kw is fine
George, We have a Hunter 376. This winter in Baltimore we used (2) 1500 watt heaters, 3kw. We noticed a drop in temperature of around 5 degrees when the wind was howling and the outside temperature was 14 degrees. I think you will do just fine with the 5 kw unit. Mike D
George, We have a Hunter 376. This winter in Baltimore we used (2) 1500 watt heaters, 3kw. We noticed a drop in temperature of around 5 degrees when the wind was howling and the outside temperature was 14 degrees. I think you will do just fine with the 5 kw unit. Mike D
re Forced Air Being Dry
The people at Boat Electric, Seattle distributor for Espar, said that the forced air units put out dryer air than the hot water ones because the forced air brings in outside air. Richard is right, the forced air heats 100% outside air, or where ever the air supply is set up to get its air which is usually outside. Currently my air supply is in the lazarette (never finished installing it completely) which is open, but not big time, to the outside, and consequently it's a few degrees warmer than the outside. Pulling in outside air would be somewhat more inefficient than using inside air but with all the other inefficiencies involved I don't know how big of a factor that would be. Phil mentioned one other downside to the forced air units - they sound a bit like a jet engine when they're running! But you get used to it. My unit, which is about 10 years old, is reasonably quiet inside and it's not even soundproofed, so I'm okay with what little interior noise there is. Boat Electric said that the hot water unit was REALLY QUIET inside, so that's a plus for HW. Don't know if I mentioned it before, but the small size of the Hydronic vs the Forced Air makes it really appealing. The Hydronic takes a while to come up to temperature where as the forced air is really fast. If you've been away from the boat all day and go on board it will take a while for the hot water system to warm things up.
The people at Boat Electric, Seattle distributor for Espar, said that the forced air units put out dryer air than the hot water ones because the forced air brings in outside air. Richard is right, the forced air heats 100% outside air, or where ever the air supply is set up to get its air which is usually outside. Currently my air supply is in the lazarette (never finished installing it completely) which is open, but not big time, to the outside, and consequently it's a few degrees warmer than the outside. Pulling in outside air would be somewhat more inefficient than using inside air but with all the other inefficiencies involved I don't know how big of a factor that would be. Phil mentioned one other downside to the forced air units - they sound a bit like a jet engine when they're running! But you get used to it. My unit, which is about 10 years old, is reasonably quiet inside and it's not even soundproofed, so I'm okay with what little interior noise there is. Boat Electric said that the hot water unit was REALLY QUIET inside, so that's a plus for HW. Don't know if I mentioned it before, but the small size of the Hydronic vs the Forced Air makes it really appealing. The Hydronic takes a while to come up to temperature where as the forced air is really fast. If you've been away from the boat all day and go on board it will take a while for the hot water system to warm things up.
Like Phil I have had both types
Most folks have covered the differences between the hot air and the hot water types of heating a boat. We are using a Webasco on a H380 and the the furnace and pump are very quiet due to mounting brakets that isloate the furance from bulkhead. However, we are also putting on a muffler to reduce the sound coming out of the boat so that when we are at a dock, it would sound like a jet landing nearby. For the Webasco's furnace, mufflers can be had at Shure Marine in Seattle.
Most folks have covered the differences between the hot air and the hot water types of heating a boat. We are using a Webasco on a H380 and the the furnace and pump are very quiet due to mounting brakets that isloate the furance from bulkhead. However, we are also putting on a muffler to reduce the sound coming out of the boat so that when we are at a dock, it would sound like a jet landing nearby. For the Webasco's furnace, mufflers can be had at Shure Marine in Seattle.
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