We just had our 1968 Venture 21 out for a 4-day trip in the San Juan Islands. The boat performed great, but we found that while swinging at anchor the keel would flop back and forth (side to side) and make a bunch of noise when the boat would roll in the small waves. Does anyone else's do that? How can I get it to stop? It is an older model and doesn't have a lockdown pin, only a winch for raising and lowering. Greg
Keel Slop
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Keith Nuttle
ockdown pin
The V-21 has always had a method of locking the keel down. In mine, 1970, there are three bolts in the keel housing ockdown pin. The pivot bolt, the stop bolt and the lock bolt. The stop bolt and the lock bolt are at the top I don't remember exactly which is which. I had to check the original manual as I trailersail on inland lakes. I have never locked mine down. When I anchor out it is in shallow water so the keel was always in the up position. There are manuals online for the V-21 on line if you can not find one email me.
The V-21 has always had a method of locking the keel down. In mine, 1970, there are three bolts in the keel housing ockdown pin. The pivot bolt, the stop bolt and the lock bolt. The stop bolt and the lock bolt are at the top I don't remember exactly which is which. I had to check the original manual as I trailersail on inland lakes. I have never locked mine down. When I anchor out it is in shallow water so the keel was always in the up position. There are manuals online for the V-21 on line if you can not find one email me.
Inspection is key to detection
Greg, MacGregor recommends lowering the keel (ANNUALLY if left in water) to inspect the keel bolt and keel bolt hole for wear. This is very important since if the bolt fails either on the trailer or in the water, the hull WILL be damaged. That said, the fit between the keel hole and keel bolt is not perfect. It can be improved by installing bushings (inserts) for the keel (not a DIY job, unless you're a machinist!). Be sure to use a material that is strong, self lubricating and won't cause corrosion problems when in contact with the keel and keel bolt. See the Generic Venture Manual on this site. http://www.macgregor-boats.com/ Also there is a V21,23,25 manual. All manuals on this site mention the keel lock-down bolt required for self-righting. I find it troubling that your boat doesn't have one. Mark Steinbeck's 1968 V21 (hull #175) has one. http://www.northcounty.com/sailing/v21/project_list.htm Happy sails *_/), MArk
Greg, MacGregor recommends lowering the keel (ANNUALLY if left in water) to inspect the keel bolt and keel bolt hole for wear. This is very important since if the bolt fails either on the trailer or in the water, the hull WILL be damaged. That said, the fit between the keel hole and keel bolt is not perfect. It can be improved by installing bushings (inserts) for the keel (not a DIY job, unless you're a machinist!). Be sure to use a material that is strong, self lubricating and won't cause corrosion problems when in contact with the keel and keel bolt. See the Generic Venture Manual on this site. http://www.macgregor-boats.com/ Also there is a V21,23,25 manual. All manuals on this site mention the keel lock-down bolt required for self-righting. I find it troubling that your boat doesn't have one. Mark Steinbeck's 1968 V21 (hull #175) has one. http://www.northcounty.com/sailing/v21/project_list.htm Happy sails *_/), MArk
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Sean
Same Question For Mac 26S - Keel Slap
I was out last weekend enjoying the Schaefer fireworks show on the Rhode and every power boater that went by, my keel went 'klank' 'bang' 'slap' and it sounded like a side to side issue. Is there a way fix this? Are bushings in order for this too...stainless steel bushings cut to fit? Would I need some kind of rubber insulator to prevent damage to the keel fitting rubbing on the bushings...? I've never heard of a locking pin for the 26S, am I missing something? If so, what should I look for..? Anyone have pictures of the keel assembly or pivot area? Any ideas would be extremely valuable to my future zz's on the hook. Thanks, -Sean
I was out last weekend enjoying the Schaefer fireworks show on the Rhode and every power boater that went by, my keel went 'klank' 'bang' 'slap' and it sounded like a side to side issue. Is there a way fix this? Are bushings in order for this too...stainless steel bushings cut to fit? Would I need some kind of rubber insulator to prevent damage to the keel fitting rubbing on the bushings...? I've never heard of a locking pin for the 26S, am I missing something? If so, what should I look for..? Anyone have pictures of the keel assembly or pivot area? Any ideas would be extremely valuable to my future zz's on the hook. Thanks, -Sean
Modified?
mArk, That's funny, I thought my boat was just too old to have one. My hull number is 485, and if 175 has one then I should too. Now that I think about it the top of the keel trunk does look like it may have some extra fiberglass work done. Maybe the lockdown holes are covered? I plan to drop the keel this winter during a major refit and painting. I'll have to see about getting a silicon bronze bushing installed to help with the slop. Greg
mArk, That's funny, I thought my boat was just too old to have one. My hull number is 485, and if 175 has one then I should too. Now that I think about it the top of the keel trunk does look like it may have some extra fiberglass work done. Maybe the lockdown holes are covered? I plan to drop the keel this winter during a major refit and painting. I'll have to see about getting a silicon bronze bushing installed to help with the slop. Greg
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vwjon
they clunk
The keel to pivot bolt is a loose fit. That is by design and it's also where the clunk comes from. Some have tried using closed cell foam on the inside of the trunk he help deaden the sound. ps the actual clunk is the top of the keel against the inside of the trunk.
The keel to pivot bolt is a loose fit. That is by design and it's also where the clunk comes from. Some have tried using closed cell foam on the inside of the trunk he help deaden the sound. ps the actual clunk is the top of the keel against the inside of the trunk.
Sean, 26S is different...
Sean, The 26S centerboard does not have a swing-keel in the sense of the earlier MacGregors. Unlike the pre-waterballasted models that had all ballast in the swing-keel, the centerboard on your boat has almost neutral boyancy and provides no righting force (only lateral resistance). Since with water ballast the boat will right itself whether the centerboard is down or not, a centerboard locking pin was not needed and was never included in any MacGregor 26 model. As to silencing the knocking, it may help to raise the centerboard when at anchor, keeping it tight against the hull. Just a thought. MArk
Sean, The 26S centerboard does not have a swing-keel in the sense of the earlier MacGregors. Unlike the pre-waterballasted models that had all ballast in the swing-keel, the centerboard on your boat has almost neutral boyancy and provides no righting force (only lateral resistance). Since with water ballast the boat will right itself whether the centerboard is down or not, a centerboard locking pin was not needed and was never included in any MacGregor 26 model. As to silencing the knocking, it may help to raise the centerboard when at anchor, keeping it tight against the hull. Just a thought. MArk
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Sean
Mark - Keel Slap Quiet in the Cradle
I hear ya Mark, I tried that. Raised the keel which totally worked with the slap, clank, bang, the noise was all gone, but then the boat swayed left and right with every wake even the smallest of wakes. It swayed so much so that it started tugging at my set hook. Before I knew it I had started to drift. I guess this may be the one downside to a swing keel boat...would bushings help this keel? -Sean
I hear ya Mark, I tried that. Raised the keel which totally worked with the slap, clank, bang, the noise was all gone, but then the boat swayed left and right with every wake even the smallest of wakes. It swayed so much so that it started tugging at my set hook. Before I knew it I had started to drift. I guess this may be the one downside to a swing keel boat...would bushings help this keel? -Sean
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Steve Paul
storm or anchor sail
Mark, a small anchor sail at the end of your boom may well stop that hunting around the anchor or buoy line. I always felt leaving the 26S keel down addrevated wear at the pin. I believe a bushing of stainless would be the right improvement as well. Steve P.
Mark, a small anchor sail at the end of your boom may well stop that hunting around the anchor or buoy line. I always felt leaving the 26S keel down addrevated wear at the pin. I believe a bushing of stainless would be the right improvement as well. Steve P.
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RJMartin
About the locking pin
I am a new sailor in a 70-71 24'. Several swing-keel sailors told me they never locked the keel, felt it was better for the hull in case they grounded. But I'm concerned now that I learn the boat is not self-righting without the keel locked down. I have the hole for locking the keel but don't have a pin. What sort of pin should I look for? Stainless steel? Should it be hardened or a shear pin?
I am a new sailor in a 70-71 24'. Several swing-keel sailors told me they never locked the keel, felt it was better for the hull in case they grounded. But I'm concerned now that I learn the boat is not self-righting without the keel locked down. I have the hole for locking the keel but don't have a pin. What sort of pin should I look for? Stainless steel? Should it be hardened or a shear pin?
Keel quieter
I was thinking that an expanding bolt in the keel lockdown hole (sorry Greg) might stop the swing-keel/centerboard from slopping back and forth at anchor. My original though was a sort of Molly bolt like you use to hang pictures on drywall but that might not contract after tightening and you won't be able to get it out to get your keel up. DO NOT TRY THIS. My second thought was to use a smaller diameter but longer lockdown bolt with a rubber tubing sleeve over it. The tubing would expand when the bolt (with washers) is tightened.The tubing would either grab the keel firmly or expand in the gap between the keel and trunk. If this works it would be a lot cheaper than the bushings. By the way, the reason the keel doesn't clunk while sailing is because the water creates a sidewards pressure, forcing it to one side. Happy sails *_/), MArk
I was thinking that an expanding bolt in the keel lockdown hole (sorry Greg) might stop the swing-keel/centerboard from slopping back and forth at anchor. My original though was a sort of Molly bolt like you use to hang pictures on drywall but that might not contract after tightening and you won't be able to get it out to get your keel up. DO NOT TRY THIS. My second thought was to use a smaller diameter but longer lockdown bolt with a rubber tubing sleeve over it. The tubing would expand when the bolt (with washers) is tightened.The tubing would either grab the keel firmly or expand in the gap between the keel and trunk. If this works it would be a lot cheaper than the bushings. By the way, the reason the keel doesn't clunk while sailing is because the water creates a sidewards pressure, forcing it to one side. Happy sails *_/), MArk
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Steve Paul
Think about this
Mark, I'd be afraid of a complicated expanding system. With my luck it would be too much of a problem and get stuck all the time. Why not make some large washers out of a think polyethylene cutting board to just take up the slop between both sides of the keel to keel trunk? If all you want is to stop the banging then this should do it and be trouble free. Just get the thickness right and it's done. Remember the KISS system. Keep it Simple Stupid ! Nothing personal intended, honest. Good luck and don't forget to report back. Steve P.
Mark, I'd be afraid of a complicated expanding system. With my luck it would be too much of a problem and get stuck all the time. Why not make some large washers out of a think polyethylene cutting board to just take up the slop between both sides of the keel to keel trunk? If all you want is to stop the banging then this should do it and be trouble free. Just get the thickness right and it's done. Remember the KISS system. Keep it Simple Stupid ! Nothing personal intended, honest. Good luck and don't forget to report back. Steve P.
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steve woods
What I did
I bought a product called "rocker stopper" after a particularly bad night on board when it was a hard choice between the clonking from the keel, and the extra rolling when it was up. These hang over the side - 3 each side from the winches. They look like orange sombreros - and sink quickly in the water, but give more resistance on the way up. I can then leave the keel up. i think they are a good compromise, and work for me. If anybody wants some but cant find them, let me know and I'll help. Steve
I bought a product called "rocker stopper" after a particularly bad night on board when it was a hard choice between the clonking from the keel, and the extra rolling when it was up. These hang over the side - 3 each side from the winches. They look like orange sombreros - and sink quickly in the water, but give more resistance on the way up. I can then leave the keel up. i think they are a good compromise, and work for me. If anybody wants some but cant find them, let me know and I'll help. Steve
Steve Woods - rocker stoppers
I'm interested in the rocker stoppers. I have seen them advertised, but didn't know anyone that used them. How much of the rock do they stop? How far out from the boat are they or do you hold them away from the boat. I have the same rocking problem at anchor. Especially when a powerboat goes flying past. On a side note to the others, I was told that was told that the centerboard must rest against the side of the trunk to keep from breaking. There is a lot of pressure on that pin if you try to shim it so the board desn't hit the sides. IMHO?? Idasailor may know about this. I just bought a new centerboard from them and it fit the same way as the orig Mac one did.
I'm interested in the rocker stoppers. I have seen them advertised, but didn't know anyone that used them. How much of the rock do they stop? How far out from the boat are they or do you hold them away from the boat. I have the same rocking problem at anchor. Especially when a powerboat goes flying past. On a side note to the others, I was told that was told that the centerboard must rest against the side of the trunk to keep from breaking. There is a lot of pressure on that pin if you try to shim it so the board desn't hit the sides. IMHO?? Idasailor may know about this. I just bought a new centerboard from them and it fit the same way as the orig Mac one did.
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Steve Paul
I might not have been clear
In shimming the keel I'd make it large enough to reach to the bottom of the trunk to avoid the leverage against the pin. There still must be some slop however to allow it to raise and fall by rope. Steve P.
In shimming the keel I'd make it large enough to reach to the bottom of the trunk to avoid the leverage against the pin. There still must be some slop however to allow it to raise and fall by rope. Steve P.
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