Keel options again. I have posted this in the past but need some opinions. My keel is a 1983 rusty one. Everyone is telling me that no mater what you do to this it will happen again and again. I had quotes of $2,500.oo to repair this. My question is to those that have gone down this path. How long will it last if I have the keel sandblasted and redone with a product such as interlux? Will I get 1 year or maybe 5 years? I have to agree with the marina if it happens every year why spend all the money trying to stop the inevitable. Anyone bet the odds or even perhaps went down the road of a lead keel replacement? Thanks Jim
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I will tell you what worked for me.
My Cheoy Lee Clipper 33 had an iron keel. The first haul out the yard wanted to sand blast and redo. I insisted we just wire brush it and use west epoxy over the rusting places. Next haul out it needed more but had not gotten any worst. Most haul out later where done by me. I would clean up any rust spots with sand paper and west expoy them. Seems to work as I very seldom had to redo the same area. This is what I would recomend. If you have to fill an area mix the west epoxy with high strengh filler. Bottom Paint it and forget it. Mine was in better shape at 25 years old than the first haul out.
My Cheoy Lee Clipper 33 had an iron keel. The first haul out the yard wanted to sand blast and redo. I insisted we just wire brush it and use west epoxy over the rusting places. Next haul out it needed more but had not gotten any worst. Most haul out later where done by me. I would clean up any rust spots with sand paper and west expoy them. Seems to work as I very seldom had to redo the same area. This is what I would recomend. If you have to fill an area mix the west epoxy with high strengh filler. Bottom Paint it and forget it. Mine was in better shape at 25 years old than the first haul out.
You might try it yourself...
My boat has a cast iron keel but it has always been in fresh water so rust wasn't really much of a problem when I tackled it several years ago. I'm still rust free. You can rent a sand blaster for about $100 a day. A bucket of sand should be enough. Tape cardboard or, even better, rubber or plastic strips to the hull with duct tape so the sand doesn't rough up the hull. Duct tape alone might be enough if you don't get too close to the joint. Be sure and use goggles. There are lots of products out there. I used a two part epoxy but this POR-15 products looks like it might work great. The starter kit might be enough for all of the rust you have showing. If they won't let you sand blast it at the marina get a scraper and a wire brush and knock off the bulk of it. You can even put POR-15 directly onto rusty surfaces if you want. Send me half of the $2000 you don't spend.
My boat has a cast iron keel but it has always been in fresh water so rust wasn't really much of a problem when I tackled it several years ago. I'm still rust free. You can rent a sand blaster for about $100 a day. A bucket of sand should be enough. Tape cardboard or, even better, rubber or plastic strips to the hull with duct tape so the sand doesn't rough up the hull. Duct tape alone might be enough if you don't get too close to the joint. Be sure and use goggles. There are lots of products out there. I used a two part epoxy but this POR-15 products looks like it might work great. The starter kit might be enough for all of the rust you have showing. If they won't let you sand blast it at the marina get a scraper and a wire brush and knock off the bulk of it. You can even put POR-15 directly onto rusty surfaces if you want. Send me half of the $2000 you don't spend.
Rust lock
I had the same problem with my 1990 H30. I faired the keel myself (sand and scrape). Then applied Rust lock metal primer. Lightly sanded after a day of drying. Then applied antifouling paint over it. 2 seasons later I see an occasional rust bloom. Scrape the small area. Reapply rust lock and paint. Hope this helps! Tom
I had the same problem with my 1990 H30. I faired the keel myself (sand and scrape). Then applied Rust lock metal primer. Lightly sanded after a day of drying. Then applied antifouling paint over it. 2 seasons later I see an occasional rust bloom. Scrape the small area. Reapply rust lock and paint. Hope this helps! Tom
Same boat, same keel...
not nearly as bad a problem. Have wire brushed, primed and painted in the past. This year I bought a small grinder. For each rust bloom I ground down to bare metal, immediately wiped clean and sprayed with a metal primer. Once everything was primed I painted over with a base coat of bottom paint. Over the past couple of years the amount of rust spotting has declined, but where its been reappearing it got ground down this year and treated as above. It is a perenial problem with a steel keel unless you blast down to bare metal and encapsule, but even that's no guarentee if you scrape something while finding where bottom "really" is. Neighboring sailor with a lead keel on his O'Day was applying epoxy filler and fairing out cavities where impurities have leached out and left pock marks or craters last weekend. Consider it all pennace for the fine days of sailing ahead!
not nearly as bad a problem. Have wire brushed, primed and painted in the past. This year I bought a small grinder. For each rust bloom I ground down to bare metal, immediately wiped clean and sprayed with a metal primer. Once everything was primed I painted over with a base coat of bottom paint. Over the past couple of years the amount of rust spotting has declined, but where its been reappearing it got ground down this year and treated as above. It is a perenial problem with a steel keel unless you blast down to bare metal and encapsule, but even that's no guarentee if you scrape something while finding where bottom "really" is. Neighboring sailor with a lead keel on his O'Day was applying epoxy filler and fairing out cavities where impurities have leached out and left pock marks or craters last weekend. Consider it all pennace for the fine days of sailing ahead!
This haul - I tried Por 15...
I have tried a wire brush on an electric drill but would recommend a grinder with a low grit paper. It works much better and MUCH quicker. Typically, I just paint over the sanded spots with bottom paint and put her back in the water. This haul, I used the grinder to get most of the rust off and then treated with POR 15 before the bottom paint. I was impressed with how it went on and am hoping for much better results at next haul.
I have tried a wire brush on an electric drill but would recommend a grinder with a low grit paper. It works much better and MUCH quicker. Typically, I just paint over the sanded spots with bottom paint and put her back in the water. This haul, I used the grinder to get most of the rust off and then treated with POR 15 before the bottom paint. I was impressed with how it went on and am hoping for much better results at next haul.
I agree with the others,
I just maintain with the grinder and rust lock, there were some larger areas last year, about the size of a tennis ball, that I filled with the waterproof fibre strand auto body filler I got at NAPA. This area did not require any added work this year as it remained intact.
I just maintain with the grinder and rust lock, there were some larger areas last year, about the size of a tennis ball, that I filled with the waterproof fibre strand auto body filler I got at NAPA. This area did not require any added work this year as it remained intact.
Rust Neutralizer
This year a friend recommended a product called "Extend Rust Converter", made by Loctite, a company famous for products to prevent screws from unscrewing. I used a wire brush on the rust, and made sure I did not remove the rust completely. The "Extend" is applied to the rusty surface and allowed to dry for about 20 minutes. It converts the rust and encapsulates it taking on a black finish. A second coat is applies and allowed to dry for 24 hours. I then applied an undercoating of RustOleum on the entire keel. The next day I applied my VC-17 bottom paint. We are on Lake Ontario, and every year I try to keep the rust on on 1990 Hunter 33.5 keel to a minimum. We will see what it looks like in the fall when we haul again. See the link below for "Extend".
This year a friend recommended a product called "Extend Rust Converter", made by Loctite, a company famous for products to prevent screws from unscrewing. I used a wire brush on the rust, and made sure I did not remove the rust completely. The "Extend" is applied to the rusty surface and allowed to dry for about 20 minutes. It converts the rust and encapsulates it taking on a black finish. A second coat is applies and allowed to dry for 24 hours. I then applied an undercoating of RustOleum on the entire keel. The next day I applied my VC-17 bottom paint. We are on Lake Ontario, and every year I try to keep the rust on on 1990 Hunter 33.5 keel to a minimum. We will see what it looks like in the fall when we haul again. See the link below for "Extend".
west marine
west marine sells a fiberglass filler like bondo use a disc sander and grind all the rust spots clean then use the filler smooth it out and sand it, it may need a second coat clean then paint it. I did mine 5 years ago it still looks great just like new.
west marine sells a fiberglass filler like bondo use a disc sander and grind all the rust spots clean then use the filler smooth it out and sand it, it may need a second coat clean then paint it. I did mine 5 years ago it still looks great just like new.
rust neutral
I was thinking of a product that I used on cars to convert rust back to metal. This product is also used on bridges. Another one I use in the aviation industry is zinc chromate. I also will check on interlux again etc. Everyone seems to use this with ok results lasting a few years. I am going to try it myself with a couple of friends. I need to find a yard that will let me do my own work. My plan is to sand blast the entire keel and start fresh here. I also will try the grinding tools to get the deep pockets clean. I will keep you all posted on the outcome. I did try to locate a lead keel for hunter. My advice is save your energy and money. Trying to get hunter parts are difficult at best. Customs keels are more than the boat is worth! jim
I was thinking of a product that I used on cars to convert rust back to metal. This product is also used on bridges. Another one I use in the aviation industry is zinc chromate. I also will check on interlux again etc. Everyone seems to use this with ok results lasting a few years. I am going to try it myself with a couple of friends. I need to find a yard that will let me do my own work. My plan is to sand blast the entire keel and start fresh here. I also will try the grinding tools to get the deep pockets clean. I will keep you all posted on the outcome. I did try to locate a lead keel for hunter. My advice is save your energy and money. Trying to get hunter parts are difficult at best. Customs keels are more than the boat is worth! jim
Do it Right or Forget it
Sand blast the entire keel and coat it with epoxy WITHIN ONE HOUR. If you do it correctly it will last for many years. Prior to that I tried Rustlok, VC Tar, grinding, rust converters, ...... and they all got rusty in two years or less. I actually put light fiberglass cloth in my second coat of epoxy. Lots of work and you'll never see it from the cockpit
Sand blast the entire keel and coat it with epoxy WITHIN ONE HOUR. If you do it correctly it will last for many years. Prior to that I tried Rustlok, VC Tar, grinding, rust converters, ...... and they all got rusty in two years or less. I actually put light fiberglass cloth in my second coat of epoxy. Lots of work and you'll never see it from the cockpit
Keel earthing
I ground mine right down to new steel and then coated with 6 coats of west epoxy and also epoxy filler into the keel to hull joint. and its OK so far. I also disconnected the electrical connection to the mast. I believe this sets up electrolytic corrosion. I have the intention to fit a ground plate for lightning protction but havent got round to it yet.
I ground mine right down to new steel and then coated with 6 coats of west epoxy and also epoxy filler into the keel to hull joint. and its OK so far. I also disconnected the electrical connection to the mast. I believe this sets up electrolytic corrosion. I have the intention to fit a ground plate for lightning protction but havent got round to it yet.
Looks pretty bad Jim
A patch job is for a couple of small spots. What you have is major spots. The other thing that I see is rust way up high close to the hull. If that rust has spread beyond the keel hull joint, you may need to dig that whole area out and re-epoxy with West Systems in that area. How do the joints look around the front keel bolts? Do you have separation of the epoxy? I can see rust on the leading edge of the keel. This area has allot of epoxy because of large gaps between the keel and the hull that had to be filled/faired. You may have water penetration into this area and it needs to be sealed - a patch job will not address this issue. You may want to take a closer look at the keel with someone at your boatyard - you may need more than a patch job. You can post more pictures here - I'm sure there will be tons of opinions.
A patch job is for a couple of small spots. What you have is major spots. The other thing that I see is rust way up high close to the hull. If that rust has spread beyond the keel hull joint, you may need to dig that whole area out and re-epoxy with West Systems in that area. How do the joints look around the front keel bolts? Do you have separation of the epoxy? I can see rust on the leading edge of the keel. This area has allot of epoxy because of large gaps between the keel and the hull that had to be filled/faired. You may have water penetration into this area and it needs to be sealed - a patch job will not address this issue. You may want to take a closer look at the keel with someone at your boatyard - you may need more than a patch job. You can post more pictures here - I'm sure there will be tons of opinions.
As far as iron keels go,
I don't think your's is very bad. I have an iron keel on my H28.5 and it's no big deal to maintain -- after the initial treatment. I would not spend the kind of money you mention in your post, but rather decide to take a day to grind your keel down to the barest metal you can find. Put two coats of POR-15 on it, wait a day or two, and then bottom paint it. I did this with my boat in 2003 when I bought it and I started out with a keel somewhat similar to yours. Since that time, I have only gotten a few very very tiny spots of rust bleed through here and there. I think they are probably places where I did not grind the keel adequately. Since you've got to use up the POR-15 once you open the can, I don't have any left, or want to buy any more, to touch up these few spots. So, I just lightly sand them and spot paint them with one or two coats of Petit Rustlok. I doubt I spend more than an hour a year on keel maintenance since the initial treatment.
I don't think your's is very bad. I have an iron keel on my H28.5 and it's no big deal to maintain -- after the initial treatment. I would not spend the kind of money you mention in your post, but rather decide to take a day to grind your keel down to the barest metal you can find. Put two coats of POR-15 on it, wait a day or two, and then bottom paint it. I did this with my boat in 2003 when I bought it and I started out with a keel somewhat similar to yours. Since that time, I have only gotten a few very very tiny spots of rust bleed through here and there. I think they are probably places where I did not grind the keel adequately. Since you've got to use up the POR-15 once you open the can, I don't have any left, or want to buy any more, to touch up these few spots. So, I just lightly sand them and spot paint them with one or two coats of Petit Rustlok. I doubt I spend more than an hour a year on keel maintenance since the initial treatment.
Rusty Keel
I have a 1983 Hunter 34 with a rust keel. I've taken it down to bare metal and didn't know what to do next... I believe that I'm going to simply go with the POR-15 and bottom paint... Thanks for the advice...
I have a 1983 Hunter 34 with a rust keel. I've taken it down to bare metal and didn't know what to do next... I believe that I'm going to simply go with the POR-15 and bottom paint... Thanks for the advice...
filler on deep rust?
I am going to do this myself look out. If I find some areas where it is deep or uneven, do you fill the voids with a filler? I am thinking of a bondo filler of some sort. Then lock it in with a good primer. Than bottom paint. What is the name of a filler if one is to be used? I have a good idea on primer and bottom paint. If the rust is not to deep do you just prime a couple more coats than bottom paint over it? Thanks for all the input. It helps on my planning this project. Jim
I am going to do this myself look out. If I find some areas where it is deep or uneven, do you fill the voids with a filler? I am thinking of a bondo filler of some sort. Then lock it in with a good primer. Than bottom paint. What is the name of a filler if one is to be used? I have a good idea on primer and bottom paint. If the rust is not to deep do you just prime a couple more coats than bottom paint over it? Thanks for all the input. It helps on my planning this project. Jim
Hello, I previously owned a 1983 H34. The keel was in hideous condition with rust penetrating 1/8 of an inch and more in places. After a lot of checking around I went with 1. Grind out and remove as much rust as possible. 2. Wash the keel down with phosphoric acid. This is available under many names (check the label for ingredients) at West Marine and places (cheaper) like Home Depot. Phosphoric acid is a rust converter that tends to stop the rust by altering it and creating a chemical barrier to the water. 3. Paint the keel with 3 coats of Interlux Primocon. It's a 2 part system that is pretty reasonably priced. 4. Apply the antifouling of your choice. (we use VC-17). The above procedure gave us excellent protection for the 4 years that I was around the boat and would recommend it to anyone with an iron keel. If you want to fair the keel, do it after the acid wash and touch up again with the acid any bare areas on the keel after fairing. The acid didn't seem to affect the Watertite when we were done. Make sure to use a product like Interluxes Watertite or thickened Epoxy for fairing (don't use bondo as it's porous). See West Systems products for a good easy to sand fairing mix if you want to go that route (it's quite a bit cheaper). Hope this helps, Ted
As Hunter Voyager mentioned,
when you seal up your keel, be sure and also address mast grounding. I sealed mine too good back in the early 90's. Pow! First cloud that went by cost us about $20K! Since then a ground plate has prevented a reoccurrence.
when you seal up your keel, be sure and also address mast grounding. I sealed mine too good back in the early 90's. Pow! First cloud that went by cost us about $20K! Since then a ground plate has prevented a reoccurrence.
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