catalina direct claims that their keel pin kit will secure the keel in place therby reducing the wear on the pin. what if i simply tighten the lock down bolt so that its snug against the keel will this suffice. and if the consensus out there is that i should have the kit can i install this kit without dropping the keel? (done it before and wish to never do it again)
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T
Ted
Keel pin comments
I think you may be confused about 2 different kits that Catalina Direct sells. One is the keel pin kit, which you mention, and another is a keel 'disk' kit. The keel pin kit is for when the pin siezes up in the bushing and causes the hole in the keel to enlarge and become elongated. This eventually leads to the keel falling out. The keel disk kit is for when the keel is a little sloppy and makes a 'clunking' noise while sailing. The disks go on the top portion of the keel, making it a tighter fit in the keel trunk. These can be installed without dropping the keel. If the pin is the problem, then the keel must be dropped. How else would you be able the replace any of the parts? It sounds like you need to determine if the 'pin' kit is needed, or if the 'disk' kit will suffice. You probably need to drop the keel to take a look.
I think you may be confused about 2 different kits that Catalina Direct sells. One is the keel pin kit, which you mention, and another is a keel 'disk' kit. The keel pin kit is for when the pin siezes up in the bushing and causes the hole in the keel to enlarge and become elongated. This eventually leads to the keel falling out. The keel disk kit is for when the keel is a little sloppy and makes a 'clunking' noise while sailing. The disks go on the top portion of the keel, making it a tighter fit in the keel trunk. These can be installed without dropping the keel. If the pin is the problem, then the keel must be dropped. How else would you be able the replace any of the parts? It sounds like you need to determine if the 'pin' kit is needed, or if the 'disk' kit will suffice. You probably need to drop the keel to take a look.
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John
wear questions too
I'm also evaluating whether I need the pin kit or if I can get by with just the shim kit. From what I can see without dropping the keel, the pivot pin hole through the keel is about an 1/8" larger than the pin. It's sloppy but doesn't look like it would fail. The pin seems to be OK - it looks round, not oval, and there's about 1/2" or so of side to side space of between the nylon washers and the keel. Meaning I can only see 1/2" of the pin at any time. I'd like to just try the shim kit this year to get rid of the clunking. I'll change the hanger bolts too. One concern is that with the keel lockdown bolt tightened it would cant the keel out of plumb (because of the slop) and therefore the hole might be worn at an angle out of square with the center line of the keel. Then with the shims bringing the keel back to plumb it would only bear on the pin on one edge and wear out at a faster rate. Eventually I'll probably do the whole keel refurbish thing but not this year. I'm wondering what an exceptable amount of slop is in the keel pin hole and side to side between the keel and hanger blocks. Also what wears at a faster rate the keel or the pin?
I'm also evaluating whether I need the pin kit or if I can get by with just the shim kit. From what I can see without dropping the keel, the pivot pin hole through the keel is about an 1/8" larger than the pin. It's sloppy but doesn't look like it would fail. The pin seems to be OK - it looks round, not oval, and there's about 1/2" or so of side to side space of between the nylon washers and the keel. Meaning I can only see 1/2" of the pin at any time. I'd like to just try the shim kit this year to get rid of the clunking. I'll change the hanger bolts too. One concern is that with the keel lockdown bolt tightened it would cant the keel out of plumb (because of the slop) and therefore the hole might be worn at an angle out of square with the center line of the keel. Then with the shims bringing the keel back to plumb it would only bear on the pin on one edge and wear out at a faster rate. Eventually I'll probably do the whole keel refurbish thing but not this year. I'm wondering what an exceptable amount of slop is in the keel pin hole and side to side between the keel and hanger blocks. Also what wears at a faster rate the keel or the pin?
D
Dave
Keel kits
When you say "shim kit" are you referring to the two pads that get epoxied onto both sides of the keel on the part that swings up into the trunk? If so, the shims alone probably won't stop the clunk of the keel sliding back and forth on the pivot pin. It'll only center the top of the keel, but when you change tacks the bottom of the keel can still move back and forth. I installed the new wider hangars, pin, bolts and pads last year and the keel is absolutely solid when it's down. No clunk noise whatsoever. It's really not a tough job at as long as you support the keel appropriately. You only have to lower it a few inches. I bought a cheap (few bucks) metal cutting blade for my chop saw and was able to easily cut the new hangars to fit. The pads come with epoxy that works quite well. Mine are still very solidly attached. I highly recommend this upgrade. I have pictures of how I did the upgrade if you're interested.
When you say "shim kit" are you referring to the two pads that get epoxied onto both sides of the keel on the part that swings up into the trunk? If so, the shims alone probably won't stop the clunk of the keel sliding back and forth on the pivot pin. It'll only center the top of the keel, but when you change tacks the bottom of the keel can still move back and forth. I installed the new wider hangars, pin, bolts and pads last year and the keel is absolutely solid when it's down. No clunk noise whatsoever. It's really not a tough job at as long as you support the keel appropriately. You only have to lower it a few inches. I bought a cheap (few bucks) metal cutting blade for my chop saw and was able to easily cut the new hangars to fit. The pads come with epoxy that works quite well. Mine are still very solidly attached. I highly recommend this upgrade. I have pictures of how I did the upgrade if you're interested.
J
John
Yes, the epoxied pads
That's what I was referring to. Yeah, changing the hanger blocks and pivot pin doesn't look like too much trouble. Probably should do that too. Sure, I'd be interested in seeing your pictures . Thanks.
That's what I was referring to. Yeah, changing the hanger blocks and pivot pin doesn't look like too much trouble. Probably should do that too. Sure, I'd be interested in seeing your pictures . Thanks.
C
chris
i'll use the pads
ted: i lowered the keel 2 years ago and the pin was in great shape. the previous owner had the boat trailored all the time. however, since i'm going to dock the boat i figured the ounce of prevention senario. i'll use the pads. easy fix thanx
ted: i lowered the keel 2 years ago and the pin was in great shape. the previous owner had the boat trailored all the time. however, since i'm going to dock the boat i figured the ounce of prevention senario. i'll use the pads. easy fix thanx
C
chris
i'll give it a shot
dave: i'm ordering the pads today. i'll put it in the slip first and see just how much slop there is and then go from there. i painted my boat 2 years ago and had a helluvatime jacking that 2andahalf tons up and dropping the devil of a keel down to do the deed. thanx for the insights.
dave: i'm ordering the pads today. i'll put it in the slip first and see just how much slop there is and then go from there. i painted my boat 2 years ago and had a helluvatime jacking that 2andahalf tons up and dropping the devil of a keel down to do the deed. thanx for the insights.
C
Campy
Shim kits
Installed the Shim Kit on my boat too. Didn't work so well still had some clunking. I figured I needed something else to mute the movement of the keel. I cut the bottom out of my daughters old plastic sand pails (four of them) then bored a hole big enough for the keel pin to pass through. I then lowered the keel just enough to remove the pin using an 11 ton truck jack on a couple of cinder blocks while the boat was on supports. I guess you could probably do it on a trailer??? I sandwiched two of the pail bushings on either side of the keel and shoved the keel pin through the whole deal then lifted the keel back into place. Made sure to replace the keel bolts with new stainless steel ones (From Catalina Direct) put some anti locking goo on them and secured them to 25 foot pounds as suggested in the manual. Been working like a champ for two years now. Campy out.
Installed the Shim Kit on my boat too. Didn't work so well still had some clunking. I figured I needed something else to mute the movement of the keel. I cut the bottom out of my daughters old plastic sand pails (four of them) then bored a hole big enough for the keel pin to pass through. I then lowered the keel just enough to remove the pin using an 11 ton truck jack on a couple of cinder blocks while the boat was on supports. I guess you could probably do it on a trailer??? I sandwiched two of the pail bushings on either side of the keel and shoved the keel pin through the whole deal then lifted the keel back into place. Made sure to replace the keel bolts with new stainless steel ones (From Catalina Direct) put some anti locking goo on them and secured them to 25 foot pounds as suggested in the manual. Been working like a champ for two years now. Campy out.
B
Bob
Home Made Keel Pin
I bought my 1980 C22 in 1991, never sailed before. First time out I noticed the keel clunking around. My son & his wife slept on the boat at anchor during a windy night, say no more. I removed the keel while the boat was on the trailer. The easy part was putting some wooden beams & blocks under the trailer frame & removing the axle & keel support beam. The toughest part of the job came when 3 of the carbon steel keel hanger bearing bolts broke off. They were less than half their original diameter because of corrosion. Very disappointed in Catalina for this. Not easy on your back drilling out broken bolts. I had access to a machine shop & am a bit on the cheap side so had my keel pin made from stainless. I found out later the original is from silicone bronze. I didn't pay much attention to the old one except saw it was worn out. I made the pin diameter larger where it fits into the keel. Drove it in with a sledge hammer & wood block. I didn' have the guts to take the keel to work & set it up on the milling machine so doctored the hole up with a hand grinder at home. Machined the bearing bores oversize to get them round. Only .004" clearance on the pin to bearing. 1/4" & 5/16" thick SS washers on each side of the keel keeps it centered within the bearings & leaves only 1/16" total side clearance. Zerk fittings on each bearing, grease offseason. There is a grease reservoir between the pin end & the blind hole in the bearing. The zerks are zink & help with the electrolysis problem. They dissappeared in one short Canadian season when parked in brackish (alkaline) fresh water. In clean fresh water they last 4 seasons. I think the SS pin & bronze bearing cause more electrolysis than silicone bronze & bronze. This keel is absolutely silent. While I had the keel out, had it sandblasted & primed with Zink rich primer. (Zinc dust & polyurethane?) Finish coated with 2 component polyurethane. "Endura" made in Canada. I just found out recently that Endura is not recommended for under water use. Worked great, looks like new today. Patch it up every year just on the end where I hit rocks. Also painted the rudder with the same paint. This has a high gloss & if fully cured must be sanded for a second coat. Also painted all the nonskid surfaces. Us old retired folks do tend to ramble on & on.
I bought my 1980 C22 in 1991, never sailed before. First time out I noticed the keel clunking around. My son & his wife slept on the boat at anchor during a windy night, say no more. I removed the keel while the boat was on the trailer. The easy part was putting some wooden beams & blocks under the trailer frame & removing the axle & keel support beam. The toughest part of the job came when 3 of the carbon steel keel hanger bearing bolts broke off. They were less than half their original diameter because of corrosion. Very disappointed in Catalina for this. Not easy on your back drilling out broken bolts. I had access to a machine shop & am a bit on the cheap side so had my keel pin made from stainless. I found out later the original is from silicone bronze. I didn't pay much attention to the old one except saw it was worn out. I made the pin diameter larger where it fits into the keel. Drove it in with a sledge hammer & wood block. I didn' have the guts to take the keel to work & set it up on the milling machine so doctored the hole up with a hand grinder at home. Machined the bearing bores oversize to get them round. Only .004" clearance on the pin to bearing. 1/4" & 5/16" thick SS washers on each side of the keel keeps it centered within the bearings & leaves only 1/16" total side clearance. Zerk fittings on each bearing, grease offseason. There is a grease reservoir between the pin end & the blind hole in the bearing. The zerks are zink & help with the electrolysis problem. They dissappeared in one short Canadian season when parked in brackish (alkaline) fresh water. In clean fresh water they last 4 seasons. I think the SS pin & bronze bearing cause more electrolysis than silicone bronze & bronze. This keel is absolutely silent. While I had the keel out, had it sandblasted & primed with Zink rich primer. (Zinc dust & polyurethane?) Finish coated with 2 component polyurethane. "Endura" made in Canada. I just found out recently that Endura is not recommended for under water use. Worked great, looks like new today. Patch it up every year just on the end where I hit rocks. Also painted the rudder with the same paint. This has a high gloss & if fully cured must be sanded for a second coat. Also painted all the nonskid surfaces. Us old retired folks do tend to ramble on & on.
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