I have an 83 hunter 25. Power washed everything first time after picked up the boat, and two days later getting a trickle of water down from the second keel bolt from the bow. Is it possible that its coming in the windows to between the cabin and outer shell? There is only a little moisture on the bolts inside the cabin, so it has to be getting in to the hollow cavity somehow... Any ideas?
Keel leak?
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The ballasted keel and the hull are tightly sandwiched and held by the bolt keels. A sealer is applied and the bolts tightened to create a waterproof seal. You report a trickle of water coming down the 2nd keel bolt, I understand this to be a leak down the keel under the hull. Place the boat in the water and if you have an actual leak the same trickle of water should show inside the hull likely pointing to one or more of the bolts. It is not uncommon for older boats to show small keel/hull joint leaks and as long as the bolts are not corroded and inspected frequently it should be safe to use the boat. A repair may entail as little as tightening the bolts or may require the dropping of the keel and retreading and resealing to replace the bolts.
Resetting H25 keel
I reset the keel on my boat. The PO claimed he had done this and it leaked, hence his giving up on the boat.
I made a frame to support the keel so it would not tip or fall forwards, loosened the keelbolt nuts (but left them on, giving about 3/4" or 7/8" height to work with) and then turned up all the boat stands till the boat rose above the keel. I then scraped out all the prior owner's mess and cleaned it very well with solvents. I even hammered in new lead where it had chipped either from the process or from age. In some cases I filled voids with WEST epoxy and Aerosil (milled fibers would be better).
I used two tubes of 5200 (holding strength: 700 lbs per square inch) and squeezed it all in there, plus some more I had lying around when I ran out. Then we turned all the stands to set the boat back down on it.
Much of the 5200 oozed out. So long as it was an even ooze all around I considered it safe investment-- you lose about 17 bucks' worth of 5200 but at least you know it's in there. I faired the gap with much of the oozed-out 5200. I replaced all the nuts and washers and about 3 or 4 times a week for 2 weeks turned them all down tighter to about where you would leave lug nuts after changing a tire-- good hand-tight but no further. You've got to allow the 5200 to start curing before moving to this stage; but don't let it cure too far.
Before I had got them all tight (some were still pretty loose) the yard picked up the boat and moved and reblocked it. The 5200 held the keel on without separation. This is an example of why you should USE NOTHING ELSE BUT 5200 FOR HULL-KEEL JOINTS. Period. Apparently the PO had gone into the boating store and asked for 'caulk'. What he got was wooden-boat caulk, which fills gaps in wooden planks that are under compression-- they are being squeezed together. This job is not calling for something to keep out the water but to hold two things together, strongly. The PO's 'repair' leaked like it was meant to. He saw the water gushing in while the boat was still in the Travel-Lift slings. What a keel needs is a bedding compound to bond dissimilar materials together against tensile-- it is trying to fall apart (in this case vertically). 5200 is the very very best you can use for this. It is what the factory used to assemble your boat when it was built.
Many times people may have minor leaks through the hull-keel joint that are more or less insignificant. They may reflect merely a small pinhole in the 5200 that has allowed water through to a keelbolt hole and thence up into the bilge. Of course these should be stopped as soon as possible-- this is one area in which you do not want water intrusion, no matter what bilge water means to you. But it may not be telling you the keel needs to be reset, and you could sail merrily for years just touching up the leaks (with 5200 troweled in). Nevertheless at the age our boats are getting to, it's a good idea to reset our keels just for the sake of knowing it's now all right.
My boat like everyone else's will probably get the typical fin-keel 'smile' around the front of the keel. It's not due to the 5200; but in fairing the lead (to approximate a decent NACA shape-- which it did not have from the factory!) I slathered plenty of epoxy and filler over the joint. This will crack, in time. Besides its strength, the other great asset of 5200 is that it is reasonably pliable enough to allow some flex without cracking or parting. A keel should never be attached with epoxy, for example. (People have said new Beneteaus' keels are done with epoxy. Let's see what they look like after 10 years.)
In doing mine I made big backing plates out of G-10 for the forward five mounting bolts. On this keel the forwardmost one is the most critical. Think of the leverage involved if you were to tip some underwater obstacle with the very bottom of the keel's forward edge, at speed even. The front bolt will take all the initial jerk (in tensile). My backing plate there is very wide and as long as I could have it. The following four, two each side, I fitted with G-10 plates, each long enough to catch two bolts in a row but separated in the center to allow bilge water to flow through. These were installed with 5200 as well-- but I made sure to tape the bolt threads because if the 5200 bonded to them there would be no allowance for future adjustment. I still need to make a little stainless-steel plate to catch the two second from the back as they are so close the fender washers overlap. I would not rely on mere washers for any of these; but the aftermost one or three may be the least vital (if anything they keel is in compression there, not tensile).
Resetting the keel is not a hard job and I estimate that with diligence you could do it over 5-6 working days. The thing is to do it correctly. I once thought this would be the end of any boat; but it's no worse (and probably much easier) than pulling the engine from a car. It's a task, it can be done, and you can do it. Once done, it will remove this nightmarish worry from your mind and remind you as well that you can fix anything those other dolts think is 'terminal' or 'impossible'.
(I look forward to doing this job for others as I sail south this coming summer. Piece of cake!
)
I reset the keel on my boat. The PO claimed he had done this and it leaked, hence his giving up on the boat.
I made a frame to support the keel so it would not tip or fall forwards, loosened the keelbolt nuts (but left them on, giving about 3/4" or 7/8" height to work with) and then turned up all the boat stands till the boat rose above the keel. I then scraped out all the prior owner's mess and cleaned it very well with solvents. I even hammered in new lead where it had chipped either from the process or from age. In some cases I filled voids with WEST epoxy and Aerosil (milled fibers would be better).
I used two tubes of 5200 (holding strength: 700 lbs per square inch) and squeezed it all in there, plus some more I had lying around when I ran out. Then we turned all the stands to set the boat back down on it.
Much of the 5200 oozed out. So long as it was an even ooze all around I considered it safe investment-- you lose about 17 bucks' worth of 5200 but at least you know it's in there. I faired the gap with much of the oozed-out 5200. I replaced all the nuts and washers and about 3 or 4 times a week for 2 weeks turned them all down tighter to about where you would leave lug nuts after changing a tire-- good hand-tight but no further. You've got to allow the 5200 to start curing before moving to this stage; but don't let it cure too far.
Before I had got them all tight (some were still pretty loose) the yard picked up the boat and moved and reblocked it. The 5200 held the keel on without separation. This is an example of why you should USE NOTHING ELSE BUT 5200 FOR HULL-KEEL JOINTS. Period. Apparently the PO had gone into the boating store and asked for 'caulk'. What he got was wooden-boat caulk, which fills gaps in wooden planks that are under compression-- they are being squeezed together. This job is not calling for something to keep out the water but to hold two things together, strongly. The PO's 'repair' leaked like it was meant to. He saw the water gushing in while the boat was still in the Travel-Lift slings. What a keel needs is a bedding compound to bond dissimilar materials together against tensile-- it is trying to fall apart (in this case vertically). 5200 is the very very best you can use for this. It is what the factory used to assemble your boat when it was built.
Many times people may have minor leaks through the hull-keel joint that are more or less insignificant. They may reflect merely a small pinhole in the 5200 that has allowed water through to a keelbolt hole and thence up into the bilge. Of course these should be stopped as soon as possible-- this is one area in which you do not want water intrusion, no matter what bilge water means to you. But it may not be telling you the keel needs to be reset, and you could sail merrily for years just touching up the leaks (with 5200 troweled in). Nevertheless at the age our boats are getting to, it's a good idea to reset our keels just for the sake of knowing it's now all right.
My boat like everyone else's will probably get the typical fin-keel 'smile' around the front of the keel. It's not due to the 5200; but in fairing the lead (to approximate a decent NACA shape-- which it did not have from the factory!) I slathered plenty of epoxy and filler over the joint. This will crack, in time. Besides its strength, the other great asset of 5200 is that it is reasonably pliable enough to allow some flex without cracking or parting. A keel should never be attached with epoxy, for example. (People have said new Beneteaus' keels are done with epoxy. Let's see what they look like after 10 years.)
In doing mine I made big backing plates out of G-10 for the forward five mounting bolts. On this keel the forwardmost one is the most critical. Think of the leverage involved if you were to tip some underwater obstacle with the very bottom of the keel's forward edge, at speed even. The front bolt will take all the initial jerk (in tensile). My backing plate there is very wide and as long as I could have it. The following four, two each side, I fitted with G-10 plates, each long enough to catch two bolts in a row but separated in the center to allow bilge water to flow through. These were installed with 5200 as well-- but I made sure to tape the bolt threads because if the 5200 bonded to them there would be no allowance for future adjustment. I still need to make a little stainless-steel plate to catch the two second from the back as they are so close the fender washers overlap. I would not rely on mere washers for any of these; but the aftermost one or three may be the least vital (if anything they keel is in compression there, not tensile).
Resetting the keel is not a hard job and I estimate that with diligence you could do it over 5-6 working days. The thing is to do it correctly. I once thought this would be the end of any boat; but it's no worse (and probably much easier) than pulling the engine from a car. It's a task, it can be done, and you can do it. Once done, it will remove this nightmarish worry from your mind and remind you as well that you can fix anything those other dolts think is 'terminal' or 'impossible'.
(I look forward to doing this job for others as I sail south this coming summer. Piece of cake!
) DianaofBurlington,DianaOfBurlington said:I reset the keel on my boat. The PO claimed he had done this and it leaked, hence his giving up on the boat.
I made a frame to support the keel so it would not tip or fall forwards, loosened the keelbolt nuts (but left them on, giving about 3/4" or 7/8" height to work with) and then turned up all the boat stands till the boat rose above the keel. I then scraped out all the prior owner's mess and cleaned it very well with solvents. I even hammered in new lead where it had chipped either from the process or from age. In some cases I filled voids with WEST epoxy and Aerosil (milled fibers would be better).
I used two tubes of 5200 (holding strength: 700 lbs per square inch) and squeezed it all in there, plus some more I had lying around when I ran out. Then we turned all the stands to set the boat back down on it.
Much of the 5200 oozed out. So long as it was an even ooze all around I considered it safe investment-- you lose about 17 bucks' worth of 5200 but at least you know it's in there. I faired the gap with much of the oozed-out 5200. I replaced all the nuts and washers and about 3 or 4 times a week for 2 weeks turned them all down tighter to about where you would leave lug nuts after changing a tire-- good hand-tight but no further. You've got to allow the 5200 to start curing before moving to this stage; but don't let it cure too far.
Before I had got them all tight (some were still pretty loose) the yard picked up the boat and moved and reblocked it. The 5200 held the keel on without separation. This is an example of why you should USE NOTHING ELSE BUT 5200 FOR HULL-KEEL JOINTS. Period. Apparently the PO had gone into the boating store and asked for 'caulk'. What he got was wooden-boat caulk, which fills gaps in wooden planks that are under compression-- they are being squeezed together. This job is not calling for something to keep out the water but to hold two things together, strongly. The PO's 'repair' leaked like it was meant to. He saw the water gushing in while the boat was still in the Travel-Lift slings. What a keel needs is a bedding compound to bond dissimilar materials together against tensile-- it is trying to fall apart (in this case vertically). 5200 is the very very best you can use for this. It is what the factory used to assemble your boat when it was built.
Many times people may have minor leaks through the hull-keel joint that are more or less insignificant. They may reflect merely a small pinhole in the 5200 that has allowed water through to a keelbolt hole and thence up into the bilge. Of course these should be stopped as soon as possible-- this is one area in which you do not want water intrusion, no matter what bilge water means to you. But it may not be telling you the keel needs to be reset, and you could sail merrily for years just touching up the leaks (with 5200 troweled in). Nevertheless at the age our boats are getting to, it's a good idea to reset our keels just for the sake of knowing it's now all right.
My boat like everyone else's will probably get the typical fin-keel 'smile' around the front of the keel. It's not due to the 5200; but in fairing the lead (to approximate a decent NACA shape-- which it did not have from the factory!) I slathered plenty of epoxy and filler over the joint. This will crack, in time. Besides its strength, the other great asset of 5200 is that it is reasonably pliable enough to allow some flex without cracking or parting. A keel should never be attached with epoxy, for example. (People have said new Beneteaus' keels are done with epoxy. Let's see what they look like after 10 years.)
In doing mine I made big backing plates out of G-10 for the forward five mounting bolts. On this keel the forwardmost one is the most critical. Think of the leverage involved if you were to tip some underwater obstacle with the very bottom of the keel's forward edge, at speed even. The front bolt will take all the initial jerk (in tensile). My backing plate there is very wide and as long as I could have it. The following four, two each side, I fitted with G-10 plates, each long enough to catch two bolts in a row but separated in the center to allow bilge water to flow through. These were installed with 5200 as well-- but I made sure to tape the bolt threads because if the 5200 bonded to them there would be no allowance for future adjustment. I still need to make a little stainless-steel plate to catch the two second from the back as they are so close the fender washers overlap. I would not rely on mere washers for any of these; but the aftermost one or three may be the least vital (if anything they keel is in compression there, not tensile).
Resetting the keel is not a hard job and I estimate that with diligence you could do it over 5-6 working days. The thing is to do it correctly. I once thought this would be the end of any boat; but it's no worse (and probably much easier) than pulling the engine from a car. It's a task, it can be done, and you can do it. Once done, it will remove this nightmarish worry from your mind and remind you as well that you can fix anything those other dolts think is 'terminal' or 'impossible'.
(I look forward to doing this job for others as I sail south this coming summer. Piece of cake!
Thank you for your input I will do this myself. Being a contractor will help with tools and skills. I will use your step by step and ideas for supporting the keel. Thank you so much!
5200 for keel bedding
Contractor, take care and go slowly and gently. Common sense dictates all.
I have frequently been received with skepticism when I laud about 5200 all the time. One question is; 'If 5200 is so great, why did the keel leak (for the PO) in the first place?' I put a post on my blog about damage to the hull (http://dianaofburlington.blogspot.com/2012/09/where-have-you-been-naughty-girl.html) and have lately come to surmise that the boat was holed, probably from being laid on her side, and with any fin-keel boat involved in such an incident the hull/keel joint is the first thing to suspect. There was also delaminated 'glass in that vicinity which may have been damage when the keel wracked in its fixings.
At Cherubini right now we have a Raider 33 with Sandy-storm damage and as we know it was tossed over onto its side the hull/keel joint is a major concern. I'll post updates to how this turns out.
For now my boat is pretty sound in this area so I think my fix was adequate.
Keep us all posted, Contractor, with how you make out with yours!
Contractor, take care and go slowly and gently. Common sense dictates all.
I have frequently been received with skepticism when I laud about 5200 all the time. One question is; 'If 5200 is so great, why did the keel leak (for the PO) in the first place?' I put a post on my blog about damage to the hull (http://dianaofburlington.blogspot.com/2012/09/where-have-you-been-naughty-girl.html) and have lately come to surmise that the boat was holed, probably from being laid on her side, and with any fin-keel boat involved in such an incident the hull/keel joint is the first thing to suspect. There was also delaminated 'glass in that vicinity which may have been damage when the keel wracked in its fixings.
At Cherubini right now we have a Raider 33 with Sandy-storm damage and as we know it was tossed over onto its side the hull/keel joint is a major concern. I'll post updates to how this turns out.
For now my boat is pretty sound in this area so I think my fix was adequate.
Keep us all posted, Contractor, with how you make out with yours!
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