Hi guys, I am in the process of cleaning up my keel and noticed cracks in the gel coat around where the keel bolts on. I took my dremel to the cracks to gouge it out a bit so I could smear epoxy in there. Now I'm 1/4 inch deep at least with no end in sight. How would I go about fixing this? I plan on digging it out until I come to the end of the crack and filling with epoxy. Is this going to be ok? I sure don't want my keel falling off.
Keel Hanger
- Thread starter Pippen
- Start date
I think you were concerned about nothing. There is no strength in the gelcoat. I would stop where you are now. Now, I would first free the keel hangers and give them a light coat of grease. Also apply some grease to the weldment threads and the hanger bolts. I use WEST epoxy products exclusively for many years, and highly recommend it. Next, I would make sure the area is properly prepped and clean with acetone. I use disposable acid brushes, but I would mix up some WEST epoxy and give a light coat to the area. Now mix in some thickener, I would use 404 High Strength filler. Mix to about peanut butter consistency and apply in the area, one side at a time. Now install the hangers, bolts only snug. We're going to use the hangers as the mold. The grease will prevent the epoxy from sticking to the hangers, weldments, or bolts. Do the other side the same way. Let it cure overnight, and disassemble. Clean up any drips and finish reinstalling the keel.
Hope that helps,
Don
Hope that helps,
Don
Thank you so much for the quick reply Don. The cracks go much deeper then the gelcoat. At first that's all I thought it was. I am now 1/2 inch deep, still chasing the crack. I can stick a small wire in pretty far. I plan on grinding further in until it stops and then build it back with epoxy like you said. To me there doesn't seem to be much holding the weldments in. The cracks go up and over them and deep like they started to pull out. Didn't notice hitting ground last sailing season. I thought I may try and through bolt these things just to be sure. But maybe I am overreacting but I don't think.
The weldments won't pull out, you would've know of other issues I'm sure before they could pull out. And no, there isn't a lot holding them in, but it's been a successful design that has lasted 40+ years, and the identical method is still used in the C-22 Sport. Here are some photos of a weldment replacement job I did a couple months ago.
Don
Don
Pippen,
What Don described in his first reply is exactly what I did, but I didn't do it because of any cracks. My reason for shaping the area was to reduce the void area behind the keel hanger to impede the build up of marine growth. Anyway, I've copied the link to page on my restoration thread which shows these pictures below.
Keep in mind;
1. It was pretty easy for me because I had my hull inverted... working upside down will be much harder.
2. I used low density fairing filler. It is not high strength and much easier to sand, but I had also never ground away and of my laminate.... mine filler was used for shape, not strength. You really, really need to use high-density micro fibers!
3. Don said to use grease... yes, you need a release agent on the keel hangers, bolts, and in the weldment threads but grease is too messy and difficult to clean up. A much better release agent is to use zipper wax. Get a tube of Zipper wax from Wal-Mart (usually in the sewing & crafts section) or at any Craft/hobby store... Looks like a giant tube of chap stick or a glue stick. Rub the wax liberally onto the backs of the castings and onto the threads of the bolts. It need not be super thick, but you need to ensure a good film of wax has been applied to every surface.
The pictures should help you visualize the job and what the end results should look like;
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...n-of-1981-c-22-swing-keel-10580.166613/page-9
What Don described in his first reply is exactly what I did, but I didn't do it because of any cracks. My reason for shaping the area was to reduce the void area behind the keel hanger to impede the build up of marine growth. Anyway, I've copied the link to page on my restoration thread which shows these pictures below.
Keep in mind;
1. It was pretty easy for me because I had my hull inverted... working upside down will be much harder.
2. I used low density fairing filler. It is not high strength and much easier to sand, but I had also never ground away and of my laminate.... mine filler was used for shape, not strength. You really, really need to use high-density micro fibers!
3. Don said to use grease... yes, you need a release agent on the keel hangers, bolts, and in the weldment threads but grease is too messy and difficult to clean up. A much better release agent is to use zipper wax. Get a tube of Zipper wax from Wal-Mart (usually in the sewing & crafts section) or at any Craft/hobby store... Looks like a giant tube of chap stick or a glue stick. Rub the wax liberally onto the backs of the castings and onto the threads of the bolts. It need not be super thick, but you need to ensure a good film of wax has been applied to every surface.
The pictures should help you visualize the job and what the end results should look like;
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...n-of-1981-c-22-swing-keel-10580.166613/page-9
Ah Crap.... Hold the phone!
I took a closer look at your pics... Since your boat is right side up (and I'm used to looking at it upside down), and all the various colors are screwy, I got a little confused.
So the pockets your hangers fit into already have rounded recesses.. And the cracks you ground out are in the laminate on the flat portion of the keel trunk just above the keel hanger pockets. You don't have to go through all that mess I just posted with the waxing the keel hangers, you just need to fill in the deep gouges you ground out.
I wouldn't worry about grinding any deeper, you are deep enough into the laminate to get the majority of the crack. You just need to mix up some epoxy with high-density micro-fibers (best for strength) and fill those. Its a flat area so it should be pretty easy to apply and get flat with plastic putty knife. Mix the epoxy and filler to a thick peanut butter because you don't want it to sag. Get it as flat as you can because sanding that area is difficult once the epoxy is cured. Epoxy and microfibers will be as strong or stronger than the original laminate.
I took a closer look at your pics... Since your boat is right side up (and I'm used to looking at it upside down), and all the various colors are screwy, I got a little confused.
So the pockets your hangers fit into already have rounded recesses.. And the cracks you ground out are in the laminate on the flat portion of the keel trunk just above the keel hanger pockets. You don't have to go through all that mess I just posted with the waxing the keel hangers, you just need to fill in the deep gouges you ground out.
I wouldn't worry about grinding any deeper, you are deep enough into the laminate to get the majority of the crack. You just need to mix up some epoxy with high-density micro-fibers (best for strength) and fill those. Its a flat area so it should be pretty easy to apply and get flat with plastic putty knife. Mix the epoxy and filler to a thick peanut butter because you don't want it to sag. Get it as flat as you can because sanding that area is difficult once the epoxy is cured. Epoxy and microfibers will be as strong or stronger than the original laminate.
Perfect, off to a place we have here in Nova Scotia called the yacht shop in the am for epoxy and filler. I sold my last boat because I thought the keel was going to fall off. Don't really want to sell this one. Although it would be a good excuse to move up to a 25.
+1 for Don and CD :: the reason I too would stop here and fill with epoxy is that as many of us uncover our 40+ year old craft-- what you're looking at is typical : voids in the mold and less than painstaking gel coat work at the factory.
I've seen this in the deck layup / floor construction / interior gel coat voids etc.
Once you epoxy that up you'll have a better and stronger than original condition. No stress
I've seen this in the deck layup / floor construction / interior gel coat voids etc.
Once you epoxy that up you'll have a better and stronger than original condition. No stress
One more thing, sorry, do you know If West System Six 10 would be stronger the mixing epoxy/filler.
I happen to have a tube left over from another project.
I happen to have a tube left over from another project.
West Systems says 610 is the premixed equivalent of 105 resin /hardener and 406 (colloidal silica) -- a very strong bonding recipe.