So my keel winch was badly corroding and rusting through so I decided to change it before putting it in the water this season. I ordered the replacement kit from CD along with a new cable....however it seems the cable is for a keel with an eyebolt? The new cable has a fork and clevis pin at the point of attachment to the keel, but my existing setup has the cable running directly through a hole in the keel and crimped. Problem is the cable is not budging whatsoever due to corrosion, layers of bottom paint, etc....should I just drill it out?
Keel Cable Issue
- Thread starter Drock360
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keel eyebolt
You are correct that the keel should have a eye bolt to attach the cable. It's likely a PO broke the eye bolt then rather than removing the broken bolt drilled the hole and attached the cable your seeing.
There is (should be) a notch in the top of the keel where the eye bolt screws into the keel. (six/eight inches from the end of the keel)
My advise would be to replace the eye bolt, but not seeing what your up against I can offer little advise.
You are correct that the keel should have a eye bolt to attach the cable. It's likely a PO broke the eye bolt then rather than removing the broken bolt drilled the hole and attached the cable your seeing.
There is (should be) a notch in the top of the keel where the eye bolt screws into the keel. (six/eight inches from the end of the keel)
My advise would be to replace the eye bolt, but not seeing what your up against I can offer little advise.
Re: keel eyebolt
Well to be honest, it looks like the keel is in bad shape at the point where the eyebolt should be. I can attempt to tap it and put a new eyebolt in, but the keel is pretty brittle in that area. (No sign of Zincs ever installed) Any advice on keel repair? I will take a picture and post it...Thanks again
Well to be honest, it looks like the keel is in bad shape at the point where the eyebolt should be. I can attempt to tap it and put a new eyebolt in, but the keel is pretty brittle in that area. (No sign of Zincs ever installed) Any advice on keel repair? I will take a picture and post it...Thanks again
Here is a photo of the cable as it should be attached to the eyebolt. The location of this eyebolt is such that it is directly underneath the hole for the keel cable whick is located in the keel slot of the hull when the keel is up. If you have to notch the keel, & then drill and tap a hole then this eyebolt should not be far from this location. This manner of fixing the cable to the eyebolt helps to prevent damage to the hull caused by the forked fitting or any other type of cable connection:
http://www.chipford.com/graphics/2008/graphics/080430_keel01.jpg
http://www.chipford.com/graphics/2008/graphics/080430_keel01.jpg
wow thats pretty......after trying to jostle the existing cable lose (including tapping with a hammer) this is what I'm dealing with now. If you look from the top you can see the sheared top of the eyebolt that should be there....
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What would be the proper technique to repair cast iron if i were to grind down the corrosion and built up some new material? Epoxy?
Drock,
You might be able to back the sheared bolt out with a left-twist drill bit or an easy out. As far as repairing your keel, consider buying the instructional video from Catalina Direct. I did this repair and re-fairing of the keel a few years ago. The video, together with the template for getting the proper shape to the keel, was very helpful. After grinding down the keel, I used a primer from Loctite called, "Extend" to stop the rust. Then faired with fairing compound, and finally, barrier coated with West Systems Epoxy... several coats. After that, anti-fouling paint. My keel is still rust free.
Disclaimer: No connection with West Systems or Catalina Direct.
You might be able to back the sheared bolt out with a left-twist drill bit or an easy out. As far as repairing your keel, consider buying the instructional video from Catalina Direct. I did this repair and re-fairing of the keel a few years ago. The video, together with the template for getting the proper shape to the keel, was very helpful. After grinding down the keel, I used a primer from Loctite called, "Extend" to stop the rust. Then faired with fairing compound, and finally, barrier coated with West Systems Epoxy... several coats. After that, anti-fouling paint. My keel is still rust free.
Disclaimer: No connection with West Systems or Catalina Direct.
Will the keel in the area of being refinished be strong enough to add the new eyebolt? It's a point of a lot of stress....I'm afraid it will get yanked out one day while Im out in the water, then i'll really be in deep.
There's also the question to zinc or not to zinc. The boat is moored in saltwater all season. Should I drill out and fill the existing cable hole, grind all shown rust areas, treat the rust with Loctite, attemp to install a new 1/2" eyelet, then epoxy and leave as is?
I've read where grinding down to metal isn't always the best thing to do because the cast iron is wrapped in epoxy. Yes the hole drilled by the PO already sacrificed the integrity of this "seal" and there are other metal parts in the assembly. I plan on possibly doing a whole keel refinish project for next year (I already have a bunch on my plate) so I want a "quick fix" that won't be a bothersome or hinder a full refinish project next season. Phew!
I've read where grinding down to metal isn't always the best thing to do because the cast iron is wrapped in epoxy. Yes the hole drilled by the PO already sacrificed the integrity of this "seal" and there are other metal parts in the assembly. I plan on possibly doing a whole keel refinish project for next year (I already have a bunch on my plate) so I want a "quick fix" that won't be a bothersome or hinder a full refinish project next season. Phew!
Hi, Sorry to be slow to return. THe eyebolt is set into a depression in the keel so that it doesn't extend above the back line of the keel. This way when the keel is full up, the entire back side of the keel pretty much hits the wide slot in the hull and the Swaged fork for the cable only goes up towards the turning ball and winch. It doesn't look as if your keel has this \_/- shaped cut-out for the eye bolt in the photo. Not sure why but this this \_/- shaped cut-out in the back side of the keel should be right below the cable volcano through hull.
For salt water most metal needs the zinc . Do you think that your epoxy is a paint? I think that most of us use something like the west system 2 part epoxy that is used for fiberglassing because it's a rather thick coating and can be thickened even more.
For salt water most metal needs the zinc . Do you think that your epoxy is a paint? I think that most of us use something like the west system 2 part epoxy that is used for fiberglassing because it's a rather thick coating and can be thickened even more.
I guess its kinda tough to see in the picture, doesnt give much perspective. Ill take a full keel pic tomorrow. But the \_/ is there im pretty sure, just not a defined shape since its kinda corroding away. Here is a marked up version showing the notch and where the old pin is sheared off.
Can i use the epoxy to fill the shown area without stripping the whole keel? Just grind down the surround area and build up to the match the current bottom paint/epoxy build up?
Can i use the epoxy to fill the shown area without stripping the whole keel? Just grind down the surround area and build up to the match the current bottom paint/epoxy build up?
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Aha, I see. It may be that you can redefine the shape, grind off the old eyebolt, and drill out and tap for a new (larger) eyebolt from CD. That would be best I'd think.
As far as the epoxy. You may try doing a small area and checking it after a year. The epoxy can peel off if any humidity can get between it and the keel metal. I also used some of that "rust convertor type paint" after wire wheeling my cast Iron and then applied the Epoxy. This sort of metal will rust very soon again if exposed to humid air.
On the edge of the keel that can drag (Back edge/bottom) I built up the epoxy with fiberglass cloth and also some thickened epoxy. I think that I used some sawdust from my belt sander bag to thicken the epoxy. A dedicated sailor would then fair the keel after epoxy so that it's smoothed for speed. After all is done, anti-fouling paint is then put on.
As far as the epoxy. You may try doing a small area and checking it after a year. The epoxy can peel off if any humidity can get between it and the keel metal. I also used some of that "rust convertor type paint" after wire wheeling my cast Iron and then applied the Epoxy. This sort of metal will rust very soon again if exposed to humid air.
On the edge of the keel that can drag (Back edge/bottom) I built up the epoxy with fiberglass cloth and also some thickened epoxy. I think that I used some sawdust from my belt sander bag to thicken the epoxy. A dedicated sailor would then fair the keel after epoxy so that it's smoothed for speed. After all is done, anti-fouling paint is then put on.
Yeah I'm planning on taking the keel down in the future and refinishing the whole thing (sandblasting down to bare metal and what not). For now I'd like to try and stop any further rusting and install the new eyebolt.
So the plan is 1) wire wheel/grind down any rust spots. 3) Drill out existing SS sheared eyebolt 3) Drill and tap new 1/2" threaded hole 4) install new SS eyebolt from CD 5) Loctite Extend bare surfaces 6) Build up epoxy to same level of surrounding areas and smooth 7) Ablative bottom paint
Look Correct??
So the plan is 1) wire wheel/grind down any rust spots. 3) Drill out existing SS sheared eyebolt 3) Drill and tap new 1/2" threaded hole 4) install new SS eyebolt from CD 5) Loctite Extend bare surfaces 6) Build up epoxy to same level of surrounding areas and smooth 7) Ablative bottom paint
Look Correct??
Sounds good. The drilling and tapping is probably the most difficult but don't inhale the old ablative paint when wire wheeling.
So i went to the local WM yesterday and they weren't of much help...after a lengthy conversation about how they were pretty sure my keel wasn't cast iron. They couldn't tell me how to tackle the rust/epoxy for cast iron.
What specific WEST SYSTEM Epoxy should I use? Will it "stick" to the rust stopping paint?
What specific WEST SYSTEM Epoxy should I use? Will it "stick" to the rust stopping paint?
There is no guarantee that the store workers know much.
The swing keels were cast in Mexico & they weigh about 550 lbs.
perhaps you want to contact the West System guys. (No relation BTW to the "West Marine" stores other than their Epoxy products are sold there.
I used this.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/105-epoxy-resin/
I bought the gallon can a few years back and a good deal is left over after several projects. In some areas like the bottom of the keel when it's full down, I used the fiberglass matting to provide some thickness and strength in case of inevitable grounding. It kinda works but it's really hard to protect 550lbs from getting scraped on our gravel bottom. Sometimes, I get pinholes that can cause rust but these are easily filled with a tsp. of epoxy over another coat of rust paint.Sticking isn't a great problem as the epoxy is an adhesive.
The swing keels were cast in Mexico & they weigh about 550 lbs.
perhaps you want to contact the West System guys. (No relation BTW to the "West Marine" stores other than their Epoxy products are sold there.
I used this.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/105-epoxy-resin/
I bought the gallon can a few years back and a good deal is left over after several projects. In some areas like the bottom of the keel when it's full down, I used the fiberglass matting to provide some thickness and strength in case of inevitable grounding. It kinda works but it's really hard to protect 550lbs from getting scraped on our gravel bottom. Sometimes, I get pinholes that can cause rust but these are easily filled with a tsp. of epoxy over another coat of rust paint.Sticking isn't a great problem as the epoxy is an adhesive.
So im looking at the resin AND a hardener? Or just mix the resin with a thickening additive similar to sawdust?
You will need the hardener for the resin.
I believe that their product comes in different sizes.
The thickening issue is completely another story. Without it, the resin would give you a coating of about 1 mm or less than 1/16" thick. That is fine for most of the keel but it may have an air bubble or you may miss a small spot. So, maybe two coats is a good idea. For a more thick buildup then some thickener is suggested. I've used dry sawdust with luck. Also without thickener, it will run a bit and form drips. But when wet, it is thicker than something like varnish.
Looks like a nice weekend coming up so wish me luck....I just got the new 1/2" eyebolt from CD too
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