keel bolts ? - buying boat

[Veneto]

Hi, I am delighted to join the forum. Probably I will become new owner.

I am looking to buy an Oceanis 400 in Italy. I found boat. I checked most of the boat and I found partly rusty keel bolts. The first one is rusty. The boat is year 93. Do you see this as a bigger problem? Is this normal for this type and old boat or it is something specific for "almost my new boat".

What are yours experience?

Regards,

Erik

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Welcome to the forum @Veneto .

Not a Benny owner but I think the problem you are looking at are steel washers under stainless steel (SS) bolt heads. All except the first one where both the plate and the bolt are steel. The steel washers will need to be replaced sooner rather than later because the bolts will become loose as the washers corrode.

In other production boats, the keel bolts are actually SS rods which are placed within the lead keel casting when poured and protrude into the bilge. Below is a keel bolt in my Hunter H-310:

Hopefully a Benny owner will chime in here and be able to say if bolts are the normal construction.

 

[RitSim]

A few comments- The rusty bolt still has its bolt head shapes so it hasn't been too long (probably not original from '93). The other two bolts appear to be hot dip galvanized. None of the washers are galvanized. On my boat, the washers are square and thick and stainless steel. From what I've read, the bolts can/should be replaced periodically- you can get the bolt spec (thread pitch, length, diameter) can be obtained from the owners manual.

One question is where's the water coming from? Leaking thru the bolt heads from outside is a bigger issue but (IMO) not a show stopper providing the price is right.

As you can see, the grounding connection also needs attention and good contact.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

@RitSim , do you have a drawing in your owner's manual showing the length of the bolt receptacle in the keel ? I'm accustomed to seeing keel "studs" in Hunters and Cats which are shown as extending well into the keel. Is your keel steel or lead ?

 

[Capt jgw]

Not a Bene owner either but after reading other threads on this I believe the bolts are just regular bolts threaded into the iron keel. Easily replaced, you can even do it in the water, one at a time. That's is, provided they're not corroded through down in the keel where you can't see them. If one breaks off instead of unscrewing, then you know you have a problem. A pretty big one. As said above they should be replaced periodically before they get that bad.

 

[RitSim]

My 1999 B411 has a cast iron keel. See keel bolt spec sheet attached

 

[TimFromLI]

I had the same issue on my '93 Beneteau. Below is a pic of the bad bolt. It was not a big issue. Both me and the surveyor missed it when I bought the boat. The water runs down the mast and collects in the bilge where this bolt is located. The limber hole is too high to drain the water unless the boat heels. My other bolts also have plates under them not washers. Your other bolts don't look original. If the boat is on the hard, have the seller change them or give you a credit. I tried to replace it myself but ended up having the yard do it. The tools and time required did not make it practical. The yard charged me 4 hours labor- they needed to remove some furniture to get to it. Beneteau does not use bolts anymore, they sell studs with double nuts to replace the bolts. I paid a lot for that one stud, over $200, they can probably be purchased a lot cheaper elsewhere once you have the specs. Also attached is a beneteau write up on the bolts.

 

[Mechone]

Well Beneteau still uses bolts and they are Dacroment and I replaced mine and so have many others in the last couple of years, however nothing wrong with steel rod if its steel coated and right strength, problem is rod cannot be identified . Do not use stainless bolts or stainless rods if your keel is cast iron ,the cast threads will eat away from galvanic reaction between stainless and cast .It tells you in bulletin that if stainless rod is used it must be removed yearly and threads inspected... Really good luck looking into the casting to see if threads are getting eating away, nothing like covering your butt and who in there right mind would want to remove rod every year, to even suggest or supply stainless rod for a cast keel is negligent

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Well Beneteau still uses bolts and they are Dacroment and I replaced mine and so have many others in the last couple of years, however nothing wrong with steel rod if its steel coated and right strength, problem is rod cannot be identified . Do not use stainless bolts or stainless rods if your keel is cast iron ,the cast threads will eat away from galvanic reaction between stainless and cast .It tells you in bulletin that if stainless rod is used it must be removed yearly and threads inspected... Really good luck looking into the casting to see if threads are getting eating away, nothing like covering your butt and who in there right mind would want to remove rod every year, to even suggest or supply stainless rod for a cast keel is negligent

Huh? The Beneteau specification sheet provided herein seems to call for stainless steel bolts & backing plates for their cast iron keels. Just wondering ... dacromet is banned in Europe (high hexavalent chromium concentration). It seems to have lost favor so perhaps that is why it isn't specified.

 

[Mechone]

Huh? The Beneteau specification sheet provided herein seems to call for stainless steel bolts & backing plates for their cast iron keels. Just wondering ... dacromet is banned in Europe (high hexavalent chromium concentration). It seems to have lost favor so perhaps that is why it isn't specified.

Really then I suggest you go back above and read the bulletin carefully, and who even says that bulletin is from Beneteau ...No letter head ,phone number address . I have a bulletin from beneteau clearly with their name ,address on it , dated etc. For all anyone knows it could be from Billy Bob's marine. Myself and others have bought "bolts" from Beneteau in the last couple of years from Ward and were never given threaded stainless rod and a couple of nuts

 

[TimFromLI]

If you're referring to the pdf I posted, then correct it does not say Beneteau on it. It was sent to me by Willis Marine in Huntington, NY. Willis has been in business for a long time and has a good reputation selling Beneteaus. When I called for replacement bolts I was told that they were no longer used. I'm not sure why he would say that if it were not true.. If you can find bolts from Beneteau, then buy them. I would prefer a bolt over a stud anyway.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Really then I suggest you go back above and read the bulletin carefully, and who even says that bulletin is from Beneteau ...No letter head ,phone number address . I have a bulletin from beneteau clearly with their name ,address on it , dated etc. For all anyone knows it could be from Billy Bob's marine. Myself and others have bought "bolts" from Beneteau in the last couple of years from Ward and were never given threaded stainless rod and a couple of nuts

I was referencing the drawing provided by @RitSim in post #6. It has a title block from Beneteau Inc, Marion, SC. It shows 12 SS Keel Bolts 20 x 110 for cast iron keel and the last one is SS 14 x 100. SS Backing plates are also called out. Of course, that would be for a Bene 411 so maybe I'm missing something ... I don't have a dog in this hunt.

I admit that I didn't look at the bulletin provided by @TimFromLI .

I do see your point about corrosion between dissimilar metals.

 

[TimFromLI]

All valid points. I just thought I'd share the source of my pdf. Believe it or not, not everything you read on the internet is true. I would stick to galvanized bolts/studs in an iron keel. I never considered what stainless might do to the threads in the keel. I find bolts are easier to remove and install. The yard had to grind down a Crowfoot wrench to fit in that recess in order to back off the second nut when installing the stud.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

It does pretty much explain why the photos don't appear to be showing SS bolt heads/plates/washers in the Bene examples. It did make me wonder about the drawing, though. Corroding the cast iron threads within the keel would seem to be a much bigger problem than the corrosion on bolts that can be readily replaced.

 

[Mechone]

There have been manufacturers that have used ss rod in cast ,can't remember however they said the ss rod is coated along with the cast threads to prevent galvanic reaction have they done that on the 411 don't know .I have also seen bronze bolts used in pics of older boats.
Every Beneteau I have seen with cast keels has had galvanized bolts going back to 1980s

 

[RitSim]

The spec pages I posted came out of my Beneteau supplied manual.