Keel Bolt Configuration Confusion

[HarryBrown]

Problem: Keel Bolt Configuration Confusion
I have recently purchased a Model 1980 MacGregor 25; Hull # MACR0210M80K. The boat is in a slip in Oceanside, Ca. Harbor District. The boat is somewhat dilapidated in that I have had to replace the rudder, which was not a difficult problem. But the keel winch and cable are also badly rusted and the cable is not connected to the keel. I purchased a new keel winch & cable and am going to attempt to connect the cable to the keel with the boat in the slip. My problem is I am unsure of the keel bolt configuration. I don't want to unscrew the wrong bolt and really mess things up. There are 4 bolts in the area where the keel is fastened to the hull. I have included a picture that I took of the 4 bolts and numbered them 1, 2, 3, and 4. I downloaded a MacGregor 25 user manual from macgregorsailors.com to see if it would clarify the configuration. It really didn't help me much except to tell me not to remove the pivot bolt and the bulkhead bolt. I'm taking an educated guess here and thinking that bolt #1 is the bulkhead bolt and bolt #4 is the pivot bolt which supports the keel. Can anyone tell me what bolts #2 and #3 are for? Are they both lock bolts for different keel positions? Am I guessing right on bolts #1 & #4? Any advice wiould be helpful. It's better than nothing so I shouldn't complain, but the manual that I downloaded is very poor resolution and difficult to read. It mentions the Bulkhead bolt, the pivot bolt, and the lock bolt. So what's the extra bolt for?
Even though I can't raise or lower the keel I have been sailing it anyway. But I want to be able to raise and lower the keel so I can pull it out of the water for hull maintenance. God knows how long it's been since that's been done!
Appreciate any help.....
Harry Brown
25072 Via Escondido
Temecula, Ca. 92590
951-699-4638
harry1brown@aim.com

 

[Ray Bowles]

I'm not familiar with the Mac25 keel assembly but I have a lot of time with other swing keels. There's no way I'd even think about attempting to do the repair in the water. I would beg, barrow, rent or steal a trailer and pull the boat out of the water. She will load on the trailer even with the keel hanging down as it will fold back into the keel sump as the boat is dragged on the trailer. Then I'd raise the boat off the trailer and let the keel slowly drop as the boat is raised. Now make all the repairs.
The second plan would be to have the yard, or a different yard if need be, place the boat on stands in the yard and then you do all the repairs needed at that time.
I think you will find trying to do the repairs the way you planned a royal pain in the butt and very, very hard to do.
Ray

 

[caguy]

1 - Bulkhead bolt (do not remove)
2 - Lock down bolt (remove to raise keel)
3 - Never saw one before.
4 - Pivot bolt (do not remove)
You could do it in the water with a scuba tank. You'll need something to cut off remaining cable from bolt. You'll need cable, thimble and a couple of ferrules and a tool to crimp them with.
If you have a trailer you can pull the boat from the water by running a sling 3/;8'' rope, from gunnel winch to gunnel winch. You can winch the keel high enough to get it started on the trailer and finish pulling it on with the trailer winch.

 

[Ol Dave]

Harry, caguy is 100% correct in everything he says.
The cable attaches to the aft end of the keel. The attachment has nothing to do with the bolts you are looking at. (the locking pin is used to keep the keel locked down so it doesn't fold back into the hull in a knock-down or turtle situation).

I would try to do this out of the water. Maybe just in a sling at a yard as a "short haul". There is a possible complication in this older Mac. The keel is iron and it rusts. If it has been in the water a long time and has not been raised since the cable is shot, rust may have formed that will make raising the keel all the way up into the trunk difficult. It may not just slide easily into a borrowed trailer.
Ol' Dave

 

[Bob McL]

When I picked up my boat, the keel line was broken and we used the trailer to force the keel to fold as the boat was pulled forward. There were two things in my favor: 1) the trailer (a power boat one) had a roller in the center at the first cross bar to help the keel start the fold easily. and 2) there was a center set of rollers farther up so the keel was able to rest on the trailer to relieve the weight from the hull when towed. The trailer had four fore/aft bunks, but the boat only rested on two of them. It's still that way two years later and works fine.

 

[HEINZIR]

I have replaced the keel cable on my Venture 23 in the water several times. I used a diving mask but had no other scuba gear. The nicopressed loop in the cable is attached near the end of the keel with a 3/8" ss bolt and nylock lock nut. I had to swim down, take a few turns on the wrench, come up for air, and go down again. The hardest part for me was staying down at the 5' depth; my "natural bouyancy" kept floating me back up. I ended up clamping my knees around the keel so I could work.

The nut came off the bolt easily on my boat but it is kept in fresh water. Yours might not come off so easily. Take a quick swim down with a couple of 9/16" wrenches and see if it is even possible.

Here are some tips if you do decide to do it in the water:
Make sure you have the right size wrenches with you. Tie them to yourself or your boat with lanyards so they do not get lost if you accidentally let go of one. Make sure you have an extra bolt, washer, and nut on board in case you drop one. You cannot feed the new cable down from above because of the loop in the end. You will have to feed the bitter end up into the boat from the water after the other end is attached to the keel. Make sure there is someone on board to grab the end as you feed it up.

As for the winch, make absolutely certain that it is a brake type winch with a friction clutch that will not allow the cable to freewheel. Using a regular trailer winch is just asking for a broken arm. Just ask my wife!
Here is the model most Venture owners use for replacement: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200331205_200331205

I think the OEM cable is 3/16" dia. I had some trouble with the cable breaking prematurely so I used 1/4" ss 7x19 cable as an upgrade. I believe 1/4" is the largest size that can be nicopressed.

I have also replaced the keel cable with the boat on the trailer. I jacked up the rear of the boat high enough to access the cable attachment using a pair of bottle jacks.

Good luck!

 

[HarryBrown]

Ray, I really appreciate your input. I was thinking about doing what you suggest but I think that one of those bolts will prevent it from folding back up into the trunk when I try to load it onto the trailer. The guy that I have cleaning the bottom says he is willing to give it a go attaching the cable but it probably won't be as easy as that. I asked him if he could see where the cable is supposed to attach to the keel and he couldn't see anything. I'm afraid the keel which is 30 years old is so old and corroded it will have to be pulled out of the water. Just for your info the waiting list for a slip in the Oceanside harbor is 5 to 6 years. So I saw this old MacGregor 25 for sale with the slip for $2,500 so I bought it more to get the slip than for the boat. This is how we learn.....again, Thank You for your time and input, I really appreciate it.
Harry