Just got the survey back

[PrincessoftheLake]

My huband and I just got the survey back for a 1985 Hunter 34 we are planning on purchasing. While the boat has received a rating of "Above Average" there are some defeciencies that will need to be addressed. I am hoping that others may have had experience with these repairs and could offer some insight.1. Moisture meter read high in the deck area around mast step and halyard winches. However, there is no cracking, sagging, sponginess or water stains in these areas. How severe could this be? Could it be remedied with rebedding with caulk?2. The discharge hoses and clamps should be replaced with good hoses. Is this a repair that you can do yourself or is it just too icky? How do you find out how much hose you need?3. For the hot water system that while it has a bronze pressure relief valve on the tank that it should have unrestricted an un-reduced overboard discharge. Does this mean a new valve installed? Again, is it hard to do?4. The Maxwell 2sp #24ST need new bearings and races. Is it possible to use any two speed winch repair kit or does it have to be Maxwell?5. The standing rigging needs to be tuned. Is there a tuning guide for the Hunter 34? I have never sailed a boat with the crossed lower shrouds.6. The survey recommends, at the next haul out, replace packing gland boot, install a shaft zinc, replacement of the standing rigging and all fittings. Any thoughts on attempting these repairs on our own?7. Recommends replacement of heat exchanger hoses from the water heater. Can this repair be attempted on our own?8. Flush water holding tanks with heavy bleach solution. How do you do this?That seems like plenty of questions for one post. I am looking forward to hearing from any of you helpful folks out there.

 

[Rick D]

Re: No. 3

...That's wierd. I have never heard of discharging a heater pressure relief valve overboard. I would have some worrys doing so, in fact. It should just drain to the bilge. Check with some other sources (like the heater manufacturer) before following this one. Rick D.

 

[PrincessoftheLake]

Thank you!

Rick-Excellent advice. I will check that before we do anything.Thanks,POTL

 

[Daryl2400]

Response

1) The halyard winches are bolted throught the glass and plywood core. If the core is wet it will cause problems. Hope he checked the compression post which is a problem on many of these.2) Waste hose is expensive and need periodic replacement to reduce odors. I'd replumb the waste system with PVC pipe and it will be done forever.3) Discharge for water heater is unnecessary4)I would replace the Maxwells with Andersens5) Standing rigging is big bucks and is overdue for replacement if it's original6) Zinc and packing is easy but you'll need professional help with the rigging. Dripless systems are overated and overpriced.7) The heater hoses go through the famous gridwork and are difficult to replace without removing the floor. It took me over 5 hours to replace the bilge pump hose.8) fill and flush the tanks, the refill and add and ounce or two of bleach. Let it sit overnight and flush it out againHow's the keel rust, opening ports and the rudder? These are other problems areas on this vessel

 

[Pete]

survey says !

#8-pretty straigth forward, you need to flush the water tanks and plumbing system with a bleach water solution. #7-again a straight forward repair/maintance item. as far as if it is something you can tackle is best answered by yourself and or husband as to how mechanical you are or are not.you will need to remove and replace the hoses (can be a nusance runing new hose to the heater but very doable)good time to replace the engine antifreeze. you will have to blead the air out of the cooling system again not hard and lots of good info it the archives (what engine?) #6- shaft zincs are very easy,the packing gland boot is not as easy and you may need the yard to pull the shaft to replace it. may be a good time to think about a dripless gland.the running rigging is a fairly expensive repair. parts alone can be well over $500 plus labor if you don't do it your self. Wait until winter when the mast is down and it is fairly simple remove and replace with new. take notes and or pictures so you put it back correctly.take the old to a rigging shop and have replacements made.This could be used as a bargaining chip as the cost could be alot and you may want to renogiate the purchase price. #5- tuning the rig is something you should be able to do, lots of books and info on how to do this. there should be instructin with the owners manual and or Hunter should be able to supply them. This goes hand in hand with replacing the rigging as you will have to retune the rig after replacing the rigging or have a rigger do it. If you have a rigger replace the rigging he or she SHOULD tune the rig for you also. #4- you will need a maxwell replacement/repair parts for the winch.it would be like putting a ford part in a chevy if you don't.Again a bargainig chip to renogiate the purchase price #3- agree with Rick, goes to bilge #2- this is a dirty job but doable just remove and replace ,clean up.use the old hoses for size.you should think about buying Peggy's book about boat plumbing systems including the head and related item as well as the fresh water system (#8)Will be well worth the money and will become a "boat bible" #1 last but not least this may be the most important issue of all. High moisture level indicate water intrusion into the core material OR a surveyor who did not know what he is doing with a moisture meter. Most time there are tell tale signs of water intrusion . this could be a very big repair bill or nothing so you need to investiage this further maybe have a good fiberglass man check it out. Cet this checked out and or have the surveyor explain it to you how it happens and what is involved with the repair. This repair (if the core has problems) could be thousands of 4 to repair. need more info on this and it is definately a owners problem (if it is a core problem and how bad it is)and it is a negoiating factor in the purchase price. It could also be nothing more then a bad meter or operator error but get it checked out ! Don't mean to sound so negative, bu tbetter to know all this before rather then after you own the boat or over paid for the boat. I suve there a lots of positives but we are talking about your survey issuses. GOOD LUCK ! and let us know the outcome of you purchase !

 

[John Nantz]

Here's a Question

Not a bad punch list for a survey. Nothing mentioned about the engine or keel which is a plus. What I'm currious about is did you pick out and select the surveyor yourself or did the seller or broker make the recommendation?Was the boat hauled for the survey? (there no mention of blisters or moisture in the hull, either).Comment on water heater vent (#3): Very interesting punch list item. On a house the pressure release has to be vented to the outside so it appears that there might be a code item somewhere that requires this. Possibly NFPA? If the surveyor is working for you it would be interesting to find out where this requirement is cited.The comment Pete made about the user of the moisture meter "OR a surveyor who did not know what he is doing with a moisture meter" is a possibility. It does take a good deal of expertise to know what you're picking up with one of these things and this comes from experience; geting suspicious readings and then having the yard to the tear-out so one can see what is actually there. After a while you get a feel for what the meter, along with the hammer and visual inspection clues, is telling you.Nothing was mentioned about the condition of the sails but then one can't really comment on sail shape without sailing the boat. Sails are expensive to replace so it would be wise to consult with a good sailmaker and get their input. They could provide a rough opinion of sail shape by stretching them out in the loft. Ask for an estimate about their replacement cost. A blown-out set of rags will cause the boat to heel easily and not point very well. You had a good post - thanks for asking us for our input.

 

[Steve Dion]

Get a core sample under the winches.

1. I would get a core sample from under the winches. It is doubtful that you can get bearing for these winches so you need to deduct from the price the cost of new winches. (Anderson's are good winches at a reasonable price, but you need bigger ones)2. I would have the mast step area inspected too. These moisture meters are somewhat subjective, but it is something that needs to be addressed.3. The standing rigging can be purchased from Seco Marine at a reasonable price. Once again, the price for the rigging and replacment needs to be deducted from the asking price. This is probably not something you want to tackle. Replacing the rigging will take care of the tuning.4. Never heard about overboard discharge on hot water heater. The water heater only holds 6 gal. of hot water. Your bilge and bilge pump will handle this.5. Replacing most of the hoses is something that you can do. The waste hoses are not fun, but do-able.Be sure that the compress post get checked. This can be anywhere from 2500 - 5000 to repair. You want some type of assurance that it is in good shape. When you pull the mast for the rigging, you can re-caulk the area to prevent any future water infiltration.Did your surveyor say WHY they thought the rigging should be replaced? Cracks, corrosion etc.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

#s 2, 3 and 8

#2. I'm assuming that refers to sanitation system hoses? If so, the hose CLAMPS *may* need replacing...but unless the hose is the wrong kind (not rated for sanitation and/or below-waterline connections), or has permeated with odor, there's no reason to replace them. If they really do need to be replaced, have the seller do it as a condition of sale.Recommendation #3 is just plain nutsy...the 6-20 gallon a water heater holds isn't enough to sink a boat. I've never seen a pressure relief drain that goes overboard, nor is there any "code" or standard that requires it. All water heaters install pretty much the same way...go here: http://www.raritaneng.com/products/water_heaters/index.html then to the link to the manual in pdf form. There's a very complete drawing on the second page.#8. Flushing a holding tank out with bleach is a very BAD idea...cuz urine has a high amonia content. If there's waste sitting in the tank, putting bleach in it can create ammonium chloride gas, which is lethal. Bleach won't accomplish any more to flush out any sludge or cure any odor out the vent than a very thorough flushing with plain water. Why does the surveyor think the tank needs to BE cleaned out? And btw...is the tank metal or plastic? If aluminum, did the survey include pressure testing it? It should have...'cuz urine is so corrosive that 10 years is about the max lifespan of any metal tank, even 316 stainless. I didn't see any mention of the toilet. If the sanitation hoses AND the holding tank need attention in the surveyor's opinion, it's highly unlikely that the toilet wouldn't also. What's the toilet's make/model/age?

 

[robusmc]

Water tanks?

Peggy, I think for #8 she may be referring to the fresh water tanks. Just a guess.

 

[PrincessoftheLake]

More Information

The surveyor we chose was actually a fellow that we knew but had also been recommended by the broker and another yacht broker here in town. The funny thing is that he surveyed the boat for the seller about 4 years ago and there were no moisture issues at the time and he made a point of mentioning it. When we were looking at the boat I was aware of the compression post issue so I did inspect around the mast carefully and inside the cabin. I did not see any kind of water damage, leakiness or sponginess. The hull and bottom were sounded and there was no sign of moisture or delamination. In regards to the replacement of the discharge hoses, he recommended replacement because of bad odor and says that hoses are wrapped with plastic. The manual Par Jabsco head is in good shape as is the polyethylene tank. In regards to the replacement of standing rigging, while it was observed to be serviceable and in good shape, no corrosion noted, he recommended replacement, simply because of age. The engine is a Yanmar 20 3GMF. In good shape, ran well but recommended replacement of filters and fluids. The sails are in lousy shape but we knew that and had planned to replace them. As far as flushing the fresh water tanks with bleach, there are no dificiencies, only a recommendation for the bleach as a disinfectant. Here's the deal. We really want a Hunter 34 in the 1983-1987 because those boats have been in our price range. We have offered $33,000 for this one because even though we knew it would need some work because of age, we wanted to be on Lake Superior in Bayfield, Wisconsin and this is the only Hunter available in the area. Of course, there are other boats out there but then we are faced with the expense of shipping. I want to say thank you to all who took the time to respond. It is very kind and I am very grateful for all the help.

 

[rodsails]

Standing Rig

If this has always been a fresh water boat. I would question the replacement of the standing rig unless there is something very obvious wrong or beaten up.

 

[eds928gt]

You can do plenty.

I've done some of the repairs on my 83 H34, and have hired professionals to do work I didn't want to do. For example, the holding tank hoses were done by a pro, while I tuned the rigging.Replacing the hotwater tank pressure relief valve is fairly easy. Just be sure to use teflon tape on the threads when reinstalling. Zincs on the prop shaft is as easy as it gets.The higher moisture reading around the mast is something to be concerned about. I'd remove the panel covering the compression post to see if it is still sound.I think you'll need a Maxwell repair kit, as there probably isn't a kit that works for all winches.Based on the appearance, replacing the standing rigging sounds like overkill. I'd replace the rigging if/when the mast is removed.The heat exchanger hoses should not be too hard to do on your own. It just takes a bit of time.~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

 

[Charlie L]

Standing Rigging

Take a magnifying glass and check the swedges for cracks. Most surveyors never go up the mast. I checked the bottom swedges before I bought my boat and supprise, the ones on top had stress cracks. I found that out three years after I had the boat.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Charlie, mine wore out at the top too.

I didn't check with a magnifying glass because we were in the tropics and the wires were rusting so bad that strands were parting, AT THE TOP! The bottom of the wire looked to be in one piece. Solution? New shrouds.

 

[Jim Gorman]

"old boat" (1985)

I have an 86 Hunter, delivered in September 1985 and, find that my standing rigging is still in good shape (I never raced the boat and put too much strain on the rig). For tuning, call the "wire factory" Loos & Company in Pomfret Connecticut and ask where you can buy a rigging tensionometer - it is a simple device to use and it comes with instructions.For the hoses - that is a job you can do yourself (beats $85 per hour for yard bills) - take the old hose off and take it to a Boat US store and have new ones cut to fit. Double clamp everything.While you are at it, replace the salt water strainer with one twice the size and mount it in the shaft alley right above the (new - replace the old one)through hull fitting. Also have the yard put a strainer on the outside of the new through hull fitting.Watch out for the mast step - the main bearing member is made out of long leaf yellow pine inside that which looks like a teak 4x4. It probably has deteriorated at the bottom where it steps against the keelson and it is only time before the cabin top displaces. I replaced mine with a structural aluminum 2x4 - have one made up at a local aluminum shop and have the yard install it. Should only take about 3 hours and the cost of the strut should be less than $300 - well worth the effort and expense cuz you will never again have to worry about it.Call me, if you wish to discuss at: (781) 749-3368Jim Gorman (happy with my Hunter, after 18 seasons)

 

[John Nantz]

Upgradded Rudder Question

Thanks for the answer to my questions. But now I have one more. The H-34 had an upgraded rudder. The early rudders allowed the steering to stall out and Hunter came out with one that was a bit larger, longer or wider, I don't remember which. Maybe both?Anyway, it might be something worth checking as I'd hate to be out there in a strong breeze and loose steerage. That happened to me once on another boat I was crewing on coming into the breakwater enterance at Santa Cruz - it got really exciting!!!With regard to hoses - if it appears it may be hard to replace the hose I would suggest using the old hose to pull the new one thru. On my boat Hunter got fairly creative in how they were routed.Good luck in your decision.And thanks Peggy for the clarification on the hot water heater concern.

 

[PrincessoftheLake]

Mast Step

Jim-When replacing the main bearing member, must the mast be struck?Thank you for the great comments. I would like to give you a call to discuss.POTL

 

[Daryl2400]

h34 Rudder

The very early 1983 boats had a rudder that measure about 11" long at the bottom. They were inadequate and changed to be about 16" long. Owners of early boats that complained during the first year were given new rudders. After that the owner got to write the check to Foss Foam who had the mold. The design of this rudder is poor and marginal at best. There is very little metal inside the rudder and welds of questionable quality. When the time comes (and it will) for you to replace it pay a few bucks extra and gave them add some strength to the frame and post.

 

[craig17181]

Send me an email princess

PrincesI have a couple of things for you on your purchase. I have had a similar hunter for the past six seasons at lake city....email me at shavdog@aol.com for some good stuff from someone who has been there done that. craig952-914-0880

 

[ge8679]

moisture meter

Hi... just a note on the readings you got around the winch area...the winches are mounted above an aluminum plate that is encased in the fiberglass...I imagine the readings may be picking up the extra density from these plates. The mast area may also have one of these plates embedded, My 1983 Hunter 34 has been raced hard and has had no rigging failures...my surveyor found no cracks, although he never went aloft either. I also had the small original rudder and had to replace it on my own, although I think the 1985 rudders were the newer design.I plan to tackle the heater hoses as my next project. they have lasted over 20 years, but I am pressing my luck. If you still have the cheap gate valves that Hunter ships, replace them with bronze Seacocks, mine crumbled when removed. Enjoy your new boat! Bill C