Just finished ASA Basic Keelboat, what next?

Kings Gambit · Sep 22, 2014

For a short excursion, sail to King Harbor and perhaps get an overnight slip at one of the commercial marinas there (call ahead), or sail to Paradise Cove at Pt. Dume (further & usually upwind) and anchor for the night. For the Cove you'll need to carry at least 150' (but 200' is better) of anchor rode plus ground tackle (anchor and chain). Also, get a copy of Brian Fagan's Cruising Guide to Southern California.

Stu Jackson · Sep 22, 2014

Sail, sail, sail. Practice, practice, practice. Read, read, read.

=s

Lotsa fun.

Good luck, the more you use it, the better you'll feel and the more you'll enjoy it.

We started on a 1981 C22, great boat.

mauruuru · Sep 22, 2014

If you wait till you know enough you'll never get out there. Start with short hops to easy destinations than expand outward. Go from fair weather to reasonable weather windows. The best way to learn is by doing---just do it in a planned manner so Murphy doesn't take over the helm.

weinie · Sep 22, 2014

What stu said.

Just get out there and raise the sails!

marke14 · Sep 22, 2014

Nice boat! My wife and I took the Basic Keelboat series through the U.S. Sailing Center in Long Beach, and we recently purchased a boat - a 1983 Universal Montego 25.

We, however, have our boat slipped in one of the marinas at the back of the LA Harbor currently. We are considering moving to Long Beach because it takes about an hour to get out to open water ...

Too bad we aren't closer, we could go out together sometime. Once we get to the point of really cruising (as in, around Palos Verdes) we could meet up!

I am going to subscribe to this thread because I am curious to see what other replies you get. I will probably buy that book ...

-Mark

Kings Gambit · Sep 22, 2014

marke14 said:
Nice boat! My wife and I took the Basic Keelboat series through the U.S. Sailing Center in Long Beach, and we recently purchased a boat - a 1983 Universal Montego 25.

We, however, have our boat slipped in one of the marinas at the back of the LA Harbor currently. We are considering moving to Long Beach because it takes about an hour to get out to open water ...

Too bad we aren't closer, we could go out together sometime. Once we get to the point of really cruising (as in, around Palos Verdes) we could meet up!

I am going to subscribe to this thread because I am curious to see what other replies you get. I will probably buy that book ...

-Mark

A good beginning sail trip for you would be to sail out of the LA Gate, sail the 3 miles to Queen's Gate and enter, then anchor in the lee of White Island in Long Beach Harbor. On the return, beat up to Cabrillo Beach inside the breakwater and anchor the night at the Cabillo Beach anchorage; permit is needed from the Port of Los Angeles for overnight. Or--even shorter, wait 'til the wind gets up and close-reach down the channel from Yacht Haven (or wherever you are up there), then beat to Cabrillo Beach (probably less than a mile from where you enter the open harbor), anchor--have a couple of G&T's & muchies, and then sail home. Try to get this in b/f the time change at the end of October!!

weinie · Sep 22, 2014

My 2 cents:

One important thing to realize is that keeping the boat going in particular direction is a lot more than pointing the tiller or wheel in the right direction. The trim of the sails and the flow of the wind over them will cause the boat to turn. Too much trim on the jib and the boat will have lee helm; it will want to turn down wind. If the main is sheeted in too much the boat will heel excessively and point the boat to weather.

You can have the rudder hard over one way or the other and if the sails are not trimmed for the point of sail you are on (ie close hauled, beam reach, broad reach, and points in between) the boat will not do what you want it to do. In fact, you should be able to steer the boat just by trimming the sails without using the rudder at all!

It's kinda like a ballet where you have three important things to coordinate...the jib, the main and the rudder all at once...and of course the wind is always shifting or gusting! Once you learn that you cannot fight the sails, the boat will do what you want it to.

rardiH36 · Sep 22, 2014

I echo Stu's observation: Just Go Do It ... And Have Fun ... And always keep learning.

I had much the same experience seven years ago when I bought my 1980 36' Hunter and then took a one week ASA program for both Basic Keelboat and Basic Coastal Cruising. My prior sailing history had been a few weekends a year as a teenager during the 1960's mostly tending jib for my Father on his Lido 14. With my new boat, I had a very steep learning curve. Very engaging and often intense.

My suggestions are:

- Always watch for changing situations that might necessitate some action on your part. Plan in your mind and communicate with your crew what will need to be done. This also pertains to using the motor when maneuvering in tight areas such as berthing/unberthing. Actually this often is the most challenging part of day sailing for even experienced sailors. Learn how cross winds will push the boat and bow sideways often much quicker than anticipated. And practice how to compensate.
- Be sure that your outboard is in great condition so it won't stall unexpectedly.
- I have read that winds generally are light in Southern California. But you are new to sailing and you are new to the boat. And along the coast in open sea, I would expect conditions can change quickly particularly in the afternoon when winds start to rush into the interior Inland Empire. For a while anyway, consider always going out with a reef pre-rigged in the mainsail. Reefing on a small boat, in maybe a choppy open ocean and in a freshening wind can be an adventure for even an experienced sailor. With what looks like a nice genoa on your boat, a reefed mainsail won't slow you down hardly at all in light/moderate winds. But in moderate/stronger winds, a reefed mainsail will allow you much more control and safety. And don't hesitate to roll in a few turns of your genoa around the furler for added control in a stiffening breeze.
- Water resistant VHF attached to the life vest is good to have.

weinie · Sep 22, 2014

Also, buy Don's book. (someone must have the link here somewhere!)

You'll learn how to control sail twist and draft. Learn about properly setting halyard tension and using the outhaul and using the vang properly and where to put your position your jib cars...etc etc...stuff they don't teach you in 101.

Kings Gambit · Sep 22, 2014

rardiH36 said:
I have read that winds generally are light in Southern California

This seems to be most true when "racing" a heavy boat around the buoys inside the Long Beach breakwater or when heading SE for Dana Point from Long Beach, racing or otherwise. The rest of the time, they can blow pretty good near Long Beach and Palos Verde. Also, FYI, the area around the northern Channel Islands is part of "Southern California"; there's typically no shortage of wind there in summer or winter. Just refer to my avatar taken in the East Santa Barbara Channel--steady in the high 20's; gusting to 32 kt true wind speed that morning.

marke14 · Sep 22, 2014

Thanks for the excellent suggestions, Kings Gambit! I think we will try to do some of that. We've been motoring out down the main channel (and back in) as you get shifty winds and blanketing from the docks, container ships and cranes. Although on Saturday we did see a nice junk rig taking back and forth to get out.

As an aside, we had a hell of a time beating back upwind (west) from the mid harbor area, outside of the breakwater. I think we were tacking too soon and not venturing far enough out to make the proper angles to the wind. We ended up in the same location after three cycles; we ended up going in Queens Gate and motoring back upwind inside the seawall. The day after we did a lot better but it was a learning experience for sure.

I like the idea of dropping anchor over in Cabrillo for a bit. We need to get our rode sorted out, and honestly I want to add more chain. Our boat came with two Danforth anchors but only one of them has any chain - and not that much to begin with. Can you just buy galvanized chain at Home Depot, presumably the nylon rode as well (rather than West Marine or some similarly expensive place)?

How much does the "off season" weather drop off in terms of sailing in the LA/SoCal area? You mention the time shift - and obviously the shorter winter days - but what about the wind and sea conditions?

Thanks for all the local info, it is very useful! I hope the original poster is also benefiting from the partial thread hijack!

-Mark

Kings Gambit · Sep 22, 2014

marke14 said:
Thanks for the excellent suggestions, Kings Gambit! I think we will try to do some of that. We've been motoring out down the main channel (and back in) as you get shifty winds and blanketing from the docks, container ships and cranes. Although on Saturday we did see a nice junk rig taking back and forth to get out.

As an aside, we had a hell of a time beating back upwind (west) from the mid harbor area, outside of the breakwater. I think we were tacking too soon and not venturing far enough out to make the proper angles to the wind. We ended up in the same location after three cycles; we ended up going in Queens Gate and motoring back upwind inside the seawall. The day after we did a lot better but it was a learning experience for sure.

I like the idea of dropping anchor over in Cabrillo for a bit. We need to get our rode sorted out, and honestly I want to add more chain. Our boat came with two Danforth anchors but only one of them has any chain - and not that much to begin with. Can you just buy galvanized chain at Home Depot, presumably the nylon rode as well (rather than West Marine or some similarly expensive place)?

How much does the "off season" weather drop off in terms of sailing in the LA/SoCal area? You mention the time shift - and obviously the shorter winter days - but what about the wind and sea conditions?

Thanks for all the local info, it is very useful! I hope the original poster is also benefiting from the partial thread hijack!

-Mark

Beating between the Queens and the LA gates when the wind is up is no cake-walk!! I've seen many smaller boats like yours have some trouble with it. There might not be enough heft there to punch it out with the opposing seas. You have to plan it out well and prepare for about a 1.5-hr trip to make good that 3 n. mi. or so. When going up there from Long Beach Harbor I almost always beat up inside the breakwater, especially if I have "passengers" aboard--b/c I wish to get there!

Also, you can get used anchor chain at Kelly Marine Hardware in San Pedro for about a buck a ft---I think--but I'm not sure on that. See link below.

http://www.kellymarine.com/

Parsons · Sep 22, 2014

I'd like to add that new sailors should volunteer to crew in the local weekday beer-can buoy races put on by local clubs. This is more than a bunch of boys with expensive toys. Small boat racing is a great learning experience because (1) it encourages you to go out in rougher weather than you'd normally do with your kids/picnic/partner on your boat, and (2) it allows coaching from some really experienced sailors for free. If you're willing to follow orders and ride the rail, you can get a great two-hour lesson for the price of a six-pack of beer for the ice chest.

BudGates · Sep 22, 2014

Another suggestion is to join one of the local sailing groups. My wife and I often sail with the SoCal Potters http://www.howies.net/socalpotter/ . They are a great group of people who have an outing almost every month. There are no dues and they're open to any small boats not just Potters. I only wish we could join them more often.

caguy · Sep 22, 2014

Rug7236 said:
My wife and I bought a 2004 Catalina 22 MKII we've dubbed "Weekends Off". We just finished the ASA Basic Keelboat training this last weekend and are ready to start our sailing adventures. Any suggestions? We're just wanting to learn more and slowly venture from the Marina (Del Rey, Los Angeles area). Any suggestions or things you WISH you knew when you began sailing? Thanks in advance

If you are going out of the landing at MDR, I find it easiest to turn the boat around when launching. You can do this by just pulling on the bow line. Mine is about 25"long.
The boat will swing around easily since the wind is always coming out of the SW. With the boat tied up at the dock you can raise the main sail at the dock while it is facing into the wind. After motoring to the main channel you can sail out of the channel getting lots of tacking practice before you get to the harbor opening. Either that or you can motor to the exit channel where the wind is always on your nose and raise your sails there. When you return going wing-on-wing down the channel is one of the nicest parts of the day. I usually drop my sails after a few passes up and down the main channel in the shadow of the condos. You will see others doing so likewise. After a day sail motoring to Killer Shrimp at the end of E channel (I think) is one out our favorite things to do. If I've caught fish tying up to the 4 hr. dock at Chase Park and barbecuing the catch also makes for the end of a great day.
Going north you will want to point as high as possible or you will have to tack at Santa Monica pier, watch out for reef on there side of pier, marked my floats. If you clear that you can heads up to Gladstone and tack there.
There trip to Paradise Cove is one of my favorites for an overnighter. Very peaceful and calm. Anchorage is about 40'. Beautiful place to wake up in.
Heading south you will likely want to point to outside of the tankers that are usually parked there. The sea lions you will find on the moorings and bell buoy are a nice welcoming committee. We sometimes go to Redondo for lunch. If you take a raft or kayak you can anchor in their channel for free. The guy at the launch lift will allow you to tie up for $10 at the dock next to the lift. Just watch you mast and rigging around the overhanging lift.
There are a lot of eateries there. The "Standing Room Only" joint is highly recommended but I fail to see the attraction. We waited over an hour for our hamburgers. The burgers were great but the wait was not worth it.
I you by pass Redondo, Palos Verdes makes a great destination, just watch the kelp beds, they sneak up on you.
Keep your eye open for the whale watching boat. They are great at spotting them and are usually drifting near one or headed full speed toward one. Managed to see about a dozen last season fewer this season. The dolphins are usually in a hurry to get somewhere too but they will sometimes go out of their way to come over and say hi. Nothing more fun than to have them swimming under you while under sail.
Will you be there this weekend?

Ward H · Sep 22, 2014

What Stu and rardi said. Follow their advice and you won't go wrong.

Stu Jackson · Sep 22, 2014

weinie said:
Also, buy Don's book. (someone must have the link here somewhere!)

Yup:

http://shop.catalinaowners.com/prod.php?51998

The VERY best guide you will EVER find.

BigEasy · Sep 22, 2014

Congratulations on the new boat & completing the basic keel boat course. Keep reading & sailing and enjoy the ride. I really think that you & the wife would enjoy an ASA one week liveaboard course that includes basic coastal cruising & bareboat chartering. There is still a ton of stuff to learn after basic keel boat. The combination course would be conducted on a larger boat and would qualify you to charter in the future. Have fun!

Just finished ASA Basic Keelboat, what next?

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