My 79 H25 came with a 110 jib and a 135 genoa,both hank-on, but no jib sheet fairlead blocks. I rigged two Harken blocks with springs and D-shackles and attached them to the toerail about 1 foot forward of the winches. I flew the big genny the other day, and it seems to need fairlead blocks farther forward. Does anyone have a good idea about how to rig up moveable jibsheet fairleads on the toerails? I don't want to install fore/aft tracks on the deck (just don't want more holes - after all, this boat is almost 24 years old!). Every jibsheet block arrangement I've seen uses tracks... Thanks
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Ed Schenck
Snap shackle?
My H37C, and I think all the cutters, use a block with a snap shackle. I had to readjust recently when I went to a larger yankee(jib). With a Cherubini and real toerails you can adjust readily. Garhauer has the answer in Related Link.
My H37C, and I think all the cutters, use a block with a snap shackle. I had to readjust recently when I went to a larger yankee(jib). With a Cherubini and real toerails you can adjust readily. Garhauer has the answer in Related Link.
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David Foster
Fairlead in the Toerail
This is the standard set-up for these Cherubini boats. This does mean that you need to experiment with the right position to control twist/foot tension for each setting of each sail. Your sailmaker can tell you the right angle for the sheet to pull on the sail. If you don't have a sailmaker, this is a great way to get to know one. They should advise you for no charge in the hopes you will buy from them some day. (Mine does.) The angle is typically somewhat below a 45 degree angle. We set the fairlead for the fully deployed 110 genny closehauled, and use that setting for all settings while daysailing. While cruising (or racing) we move it forward if we are on a broad reach or a run, and also when we furl it. While cruising, we usually reset the fairlead on the windward (lazy) sheet, then do the other side after we tack. This is a good set-up, except that the sheeting angle for 80 to 110 jibs is about 20 degrees. You need about 11 for optimum pointing. We have used a barber-hauler (a snatch block on the sheet pulled back toward the centerline of the boat) to allow us to point better. But this results in pinching and heeling, and with our shoal draft keel, we make more leeway than it is worth. So I have usually found it faster to bear off, and give her her head with the sheets run in the standard way. David Lady Lillie '77 h27
This is the standard set-up for these Cherubini boats. This does mean that you need to experiment with the right position to control twist/foot tension for each setting of each sail. Your sailmaker can tell you the right angle for the sheet to pull on the sail. If you don't have a sailmaker, this is a great way to get to know one. They should advise you for no charge in the hopes you will buy from them some day. (Mine does.) The angle is typically somewhat below a 45 degree angle. We set the fairlead for the fully deployed 110 genny closehauled, and use that setting for all settings while daysailing. While cruising (or racing) we move it forward if we are on a broad reach or a run, and also when we furl it. While cruising, we usually reset the fairlead on the windward (lazy) sheet, then do the other side after we tack. This is a good set-up, except that the sheeting angle for 80 to 110 jibs is about 20 degrees. You need about 11 for optimum pointing. We have used a barber-hauler (a snatch block on the sheet pulled back toward the centerline of the boat) to allow us to point better. But this results in pinching and heeling, and with our shoal draft keel, we make more leeway than it is worth. So I have usually found it faster to bear off, and give her her head with the sheets run in the standard way. David Lady Lillie '77 h27
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John '76 H25
my solution
This is how I am solving the problem, once I have the locations figured out for each sail, put one at each location, us a snap block and the locations are always marked and the stainless blocks won't wear the aluminum toe rail.
This is how I am solving the problem, once I have the locations figured out for each sail, put one at each location, us a snap block and the locations are always marked and the stainless blocks won't wear the aluminum toe rail.
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L and W
Toe Rail Mounted Bails
John, I arrived at the same solution last night! Just to let you know... West Marine has the same part for a few bucks less. The only thing that we will be giving up with this solution is the stand-up spring that keeps the block up off the deck and/or hull. Thanks for the input!
John, I arrived at the same solution last night! Just to let you know... West Marine has the same part for a few bucks less. The only thing that we will be giving up with this solution is the stand-up spring that keeps the block up off the deck and/or hull. Thanks for the input!
Not directly on the toerail
The typical thing is to shackle jib-lead blocks directly to the toerail, but this is not the best idea because it: 1. -is a poor bearing surfce, may affect lead angle; 2. -chips h*ll out of the black aluminium thing; 3. -consequently leads to losing the anodising which leads to oxidation and this is NOT something you want to replace when it starts looking like h*ll. The rubber-gasketed shackle rings look like a realy smart idea (especially because they hide it if it's already nicked up) but you'd need about three sets to adequately cover all your usual alternatives and even one pair is not cheap. But I can see myself hooking the snatch blocks right onto the toerail and maintaining it with black nail polish-- LOL! By the way the idea of the toerail, of which Hunter was one of the pioneers, was originally only threefold: 1. strong reinforcement to hull/deck joint-- it's basically a girder there and of T-6066, the best material applicable; 2. provision for mounting chainplates without added-in bulkheads under the deck-- since it's already strong and bolted down, all chainplate stress is effectively transmitted to the whole gunwale flange; 3. cosmetic, solving issue of how to dress off that seam in the boat (look at 70s boats without it!) and providing a sporty black-and-white look. The convenience of mounting snatch blocks on it was a designed-in albeit merely secondary benefit. JC 2
The typical thing is to shackle jib-lead blocks directly to the toerail, but this is not the best idea because it: 1. -is a poor bearing surfce, may affect lead angle; 2. -chips h*ll out of the black aluminium thing; 3. -consequently leads to losing the anodising which leads to oxidation and this is NOT something you want to replace when it starts looking like h*ll. The rubber-gasketed shackle rings look like a realy smart idea (especially because they hide it if it's already nicked up) but you'd need about three sets to adequately cover all your usual alternatives and even one pair is not cheap. But I can see myself hooking the snatch blocks right onto the toerail and maintaining it with black nail polish-- LOL! By the way the idea of the toerail, of which Hunter was one of the pioneers, was originally only threefold: 1. strong reinforcement to hull/deck joint-- it's basically a girder there and of T-6066, the best material applicable; 2. provision for mounting chainplates without added-in bulkheads under the deck-- since it's already strong and bolted down, all chainplate stress is effectively transmitted to the whole gunwale flange; 3. cosmetic, solving issue of how to dress off that seam in the boat (look at 70s boats without it!) and providing a sporty black-and-white look. The convenience of mounting snatch blocks on it was a designed-in albeit merely secondary benefit. JC 2
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Ed Schenck
Yep, directly.
Those snap shackles have been in only one or two holes in the twenty-three year life of the boat. You cannot look at my toerail and tell me where they normally are mounted(they are inside for the winter). Those mounting pads cost more than a block with shackle! Mine have a small becket. I use a light bungee cord to the lower lifeline to keep them off the deck when loose.
Those snap shackles have been in only one or two holes in the twenty-three year life of the boat. You cannot look at my toerail and tell me where they normally are mounted(they are inside for the winter). Those mounting pads cost more than a block with shackle! Mine have a small becket. I use a light bungee cord to the lower lifeline to keep them off the deck when loose.
Directly? You go
Ed, you've got a really nice boat. The PO of this little boat used those heavy-duty SS carabiner hooks and every time they were taken off or put on they chipped a little out of the toerail. You can go up and down the gunwale counting the spots where they've been. Also-- remember aluminium is NOT a good bearing material. Theoretically (and I admit that may be all it is) the SS shackles should abrade on the softer material under load. Maybe the load is not really high enough. Maybe the shackles found the perfect place to sit. Maybe you don't abuse the system. Maybe my boat's PO was an idiot (but I've seen it elsewhere too). I suppose there are always variables either way; in which case we should count our blessings. JC 2
Ed, you've got a really nice boat. The PO of this little boat used those heavy-duty SS carabiner hooks and every time they were taken off or put on they chipped a little out of the toerail. You can go up and down the gunwale counting the spots where they've been. Also-- remember aluminium is NOT a good bearing material. Theoretically (and I admit that may be all it is) the SS shackles should abrade on the softer material under load. Maybe the load is not really high enough. Maybe the shackles found the perfect place to sit. Maybe you don't abuse the system. Maybe my boat's PO was an idiot (but I've seen it elsewhere too). I suppose there are always variables either way; in which case we should count our blessings. JC 2
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L and W
So, bottom line is?
JC II, thanks for your input on this issue. Since you have close ties to the original, what was it that Hunter provided originally for jib sheet/genoa sheet blocks? Would you recommend installing fore/aft tracks after all? The problem with installing them is that the side deck undersides are completely inaccessible from the cabin. I can't even get a socket on the lifeline stanchion Nylock nuts due to the molded cabin ceiling covering the undersides of the side decks. I was also concerned about the point loads on the aluminum toe rails and damage to the oxidized finish. My rails are still in great shape, and I don't see any evidence of abrasion. Maybe the rail-mounted bails with the bearing pads are the best idea after all. They are supposed to be adjustable fore and aft with a partial unscrewing of the pins. If one didn't mind the hassle of adjusting them under way, one set should suffice...
JC II, thanks for your input on this issue. Since you have close ties to the original, what was it that Hunter provided originally for jib sheet/genoa sheet blocks? Would you recommend installing fore/aft tracks after all? The problem with installing them is that the side deck undersides are completely inaccessible from the cabin. I can't even get a socket on the lifeline stanchion Nylock nuts due to the molded cabin ceiling covering the undersides of the side decks. I was also concerned about the point loads on the aluminum toe rails and damage to the oxidized finish. My rails are still in great shape, and I don't see any evidence of abrasion. Maybe the rail-mounted bails with the bearing pads are the best idea after all. They are supposed to be adjustable fore and aft with a partial unscrewing of the pins. If one didn't mind the hassle of adjusting them under way, one set should suffice...
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Roger Rollins
Wichard's toerail padeye
best price is in BoatUS catalog, pg. 275. Although twice the price of the Johnson Marine folding unit, the Wichard looks like it would be much easier to move. If it really slides easily, one set would suffice. The West Marine catalog illustrates that 2 toerail cross-section profiles are available. Pg. 1023.
best price is in BoatUS catalog, pg. 275. Although twice the price of the Johnson Marine folding unit, the Wichard looks like it would be much easier to move. If it really slides easily, one set would suffice. The West Marine catalog illustrates that 2 toerail cross-section profiles are available. Pg. 1023.
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