I have a friend who, when attempting to point the boat as high as possible into the wind, will pull on the jib line on the windward side. This pulls the back/bottom part of the jib close to in line with the mast. Everything I have read indicates that this is not the way to trim the jib. We didn't have steady enough wind to really test the difference, but it did seem to allow the boat to point higher. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice concerning this?
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to get a better angle towards destination
I think he meant it for mainly short periods of time to make it past a land point without having to tack.
I think he meant it for mainly short periods of time to make it past a land point without having to tack.
barber hauler
Would that not be the same effect as a "barber hauler"? Have never seen one rigged but it sounds so seamanlike I got to have a snatch block ;D
Would that not be the same effect as a "barber hauler"? Have never seen one rigged but it sounds so seamanlike I got to have a snatch block ;D
Barberhauling
I think what you are talking about is called "barberhauling" - i.e. moving the clew of the jib/genoa inboard from the position that the tracks normally would position it at. Check out the link below, item "k" J. Set the fore-and-aft position of the jib lead so the telltales break evenly along the luff. For example, if the top (windward) telltales flutter first, it means you should move the lead forward. One exception to this is in over-powered conditions, when you should move the lead back (and let the top telltales break) in order to depower the sail. K. Position your jib leads athwartships so your lead angle is roughly 8 to 11 degrees. On some one-designs (e.g. Flying Scots) and bigger boats (e.g. older designs that have jib tracks close to the rail), the existing leads are too far outboard, and it's faster to "barberhaul" the clew to windward slightly. Other times, such as when overpowered, you'll want to barberhaul outboard (or move the leads out, if possible) to depower. Love that Google. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
I think what you are talking about is called "barberhauling" - i.e. moving the clew of the jib/genoa inboard from the position that the tracks normally would position it at. Check out the link below, item "k" J. Set the fore-and-aft position of the jib lead so the telltales break evenly along the luff. For example, if the top (windward) telltales flutter first, it means you should move the lead forward. One exception to this is in over-powered conditions, when you should move the lead back (and let the top telltales break) in order to depower the sail. K. Position your jib leads athwartships so your lead angle is roughly 8 to 11 degrees. On some one-designs (e.g. Flying Scots) and bigger boats (e.g. older designs that have jib tracks close to the rail), the existing leads are too far outboard, and it's faster to "barberhaul" the clew to windward slightly. Other times, such as when overpowered, you'll want to barberhaul outboard (or move the leads out, if possible) to depower. Love that Google. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Yup, its a form of barber-hauling.
Can be done with the lazy sheet when pulled at right angles to the centerline. You can use a snatch block or simply a loose piece of line looped around the leeward sheet (between the clew and the fairlead). Most well set-up race boats will have a means to adjust the fairlead location 'across the deck' in addition to the normal fore/aft method. How to do .... once the boat's sails are properly trimmed and shaped (tell-tales, etc.) and on a hard beat to windward, begin to pull the barber-haul line in towards the centerline while watching the knotmeter, keep pulling in until the kntmeter shows the boat is just beginning to lose speed, then open the barberhauler an inch. This adjustment allows the highest pointing angle (for the present wind conditions), optimizes the 'slot' .... so now you have the best 'pointing angle' and the fastest speed possible all at the same time. If you already KNOW how to trim and properly shape sails (tell tales, etc) barberhauling or pulling in the proper amount on the jib traveller will pay big dividends on how well the boat performs going upwind.
Can be done with the lazy sheet when pulled at right angles to the centerline. You can use a snatch block or simply a loose piece of line looped around the leeward sheet (between the clew and the fairlead). Most well set-up race boats will have a means to adjust the fairlead location 'across the deck' in addition to the normal fore/aft method. How to do .... once the boat's sails are properly trimmed and shaped (tell-tales, etc.) and on a hard beat to windward, begin to pull the barber-haul line in towards the centerline while watching the knotmeter, keep pulling in until the kntmeter shows the boat is just beginning to lose speed, then open the barberhauler an inch. This adjustment allows the highest pointing angle (for the present wind conditions), optimizes the 'slot' .... so now you have the best 'pointing angle' and the fastest speed possible all at the same time. If you already KNOW how to trim and properly shape sails (tell tales, etc) barberhauling or pulling in the proper amount on the jib traveller will pay big dividends on how well the boat performs going upwind.
confused
Maybe my brain isn't working too well but how is this barber-hauling technique different from backwinding the jib when you tack?
Maybe my brain isn't working too well but how is this barber-hauling technique different from backwinding the jib when you tack?
Easy
Bill Read K above again - it's only a LITTLE, and not used when or during or for a tack. You are just pulling the loaded sheet inboard to move the clew of the jib inboard. Stu
Bill Read K above again - it's only a LITTLE, and not used when or during or for a tack. You are just pulling the loaded sheet inboard to move the clew of the jib inboard. Stu
yes, but barber hauling is used to increase the performance of the boat, not to head further up in the wind.
i always do it racing
I always "weather sheet" when i am competitive racing 420's. The difference is very noticiable in the smaller boats. I can usually squeeze around the windward mark with speed in a shift doing it.
I always "weather sheet" when i am competitive racing 420's. The difference is very noticiable in the smaller boats. I can usually squeeze around the windward mark with speed in a shift doing it.
- Jan 22, 2008
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lazy sheet
I often haul in the lazy jib sheet to bring the clew to the 18 degree position which is the optimum upwind pointing for my boat. I can get as close as 25 degrees off the wind presently, and hope to improve on that this summer by installing a traveller to allow me to sheet the main on center. This is not a speed issue, the closer you head to wind, generally the slower you go. Your fastest speed is typically on a beam reach. Narrowing the slot and bringing the main as close to centre as possible improves pointing performance only.
I often haul in the lazy jib sheet to bring the clew to the 18 degree position which is the optimum upwind pointing for my boat. I can get as close as 25 degrees off the wind presently, and hope to improve on that this summer by installing a traveller to allow me to sheet the main on center. This is not a speed issue, the closer you head to wind, generally the slower you go. Your fastest speed is typically on a beam reach. Narrowing the slot and bringing the main as close to centre as possible improves pointing performance only.
barber hauling means nothing more, nor less, than sheeting the jib further outboard than the usual track, anyway you want to. it's a way to add draft to the jib.
Barberhauling
We need to understand that at least within the Hunter family, there is such a variety of rig types that I don't think we can make blanket statements about how to barberhaul with out considering the diferences. I have a double spreader B
We need to understand that at least within the Hunter family, there is such a variety of rig types that I don't think we can make blanket statements about how to barberhaul with out considering the diferences. I have a double spreader B
High Point
Richard: My C22 with the 150 Genoa points a little higher without losing much speed if I attach the jib sheet across the cockpit to the windward winch. Kind of awkward, but it works. Dick
Richard: My C22 with the 150 Genoa points a little higher without losing much speed if I attach the jib sheet across the cockpit to the windward winch. Kind of awkward, but it works. Dick
Misuse of the term barberhauler
Sorry boys, I have to jump in here because I'm seeing some pretty reckless references regarding this device. Barberhaulers, sometimes called outhauls, are merely a gadget to move the jib sheeting angle out toward the side of the boat. Hence, they help control the slot between the jib and the main. Barberhaulers find their optimal use on reaching legs, when the sails are let out. By running the jib sheet through an extra block, which is on the end of a line, the jib sheeting angle can be moved out just by pulling on the end of the free line. If you are trying move the sheeting angle further inside than your fixed lead, then a device called an "in-haul" can be rigged.
Sorry boys, I have to jump in here because I'm seeing some pretty reckless references regarding this device. Barberhaulers, sometimes called outhauls, are merely a gadget to move the jib sheeting angle out toward the side of the boat. Hence, they help control the slot between the jib and the main. Barberhaulers find their optimal use on reaching legs, when the sails are let out. By running the jib sheet through an extra block, which is on the end of a line, the jib sheeting angle can be moved out just by pulling on the end of the free line. If you are trying move the sheeting angle further inside than your fixed lead, then a device called an "in-haul" can be rigged.
barberhauler
Joe, after doing a google search, evidently a lot of sailors sense the freedom to describe a barberhauler as a device that will alter the jib sheets either inboard or outboard... with the common theme that a barberhauler adjust the slot. Personally, I'd have to agree with the broader use even if the inventor first used it as an outhaul because more than deflecting outboard, conceptually he was adjusting the slot and I think barberhauler has come to mean a device that does that. Not that I don't like differentiations, twings...which are physically identical to a barberhauler, alter the sheet angle vertically rather than laterally. I would fuss at someone calling a twing a barberhauler but not someone calling an inhaul a barberhauler.
Joe, after doing a google search, evidently a lot of sailors sense the freedom to describe a barberhauler as a device that will alter the jib sheets either inboard or outboard... with the common theme that a barberhauler adjust the slot. Personally, I'd have to agree with the broader use even if the inventor first used it as an outhaul because more than deflecting outboard, conceptually he was adjusting the slot and I think barberhauler has come to mean a device that does that. Not that I don't like differentiations, twings...which are physically identical to a barberhauler, alter the sheet angle vertically rather than laterally. I would fuss at someone calling a twing a barberhauler but not someone calling an inhaul a barberhauler.
Mates: The most important thing about sail trim is to understand WHY you are making a particular sail trim adjustment. There are inboard fairlead tracks and outboard fairlead tracks. Most production boat have only one track and on older boats they were outboard hence the need for a Barberhauler or cross haul. Newer boats have the track inboard so there is no need for a Barberhauler. The devise was named after two brothers named Barber, who raced Lightnings against Dennis Conner. All a Barber hauler is is a short piece of line that you attach to the jib sheet(it is important that it be placed in the correct position on the jib sheet) and you use it to pull the jib sheet in simulating an inboard track. I've never seen a Barberhauler used to move from inboard to outboard. Why do we need inboard and outboard tracks? We need them because they affect the angle of attack and to a lesser extent twist. When sailing closehauled, you want to use the inboard track, which allows you to point higher. Pointing higher should not be the main goal - speed is and the higher you point the slower you go. So, if you have only outboard tracks, as I do, and your sailing closehauled, you want to clip on your Barberhauler to the jib sheet and start cranking in. At the first sign of losing speed STOP and ease it out slightly. While reaching, you want to use the outboard track because if you don't the top of the sail will twist open spilling air and the bottom of the sail will hook in and create drag. If all you have is inboard track, obviously this causes a problem and the solution is not a Barberhauler. How important is inboard and outboard track correct placement - about 1 knot of speed!!
I agree with you Arlyn,,,,,
... the term has evolved to include both inhaul and outhaul devices for jibs. After checking out some tuning guides for boats like the Mumm 30 I see that the term and rig can apply as you state. I do disagree that a barber hauler is not used for outboard adjustment. I rigged my Nacra 5.2 barber hauler according to class rules and the purpose of the device on this boat is to OPEN the slot from it's naturally closed position. It is set up so that the crew can control it from the windward rail. I have also seen numerous diagrams in other sail trim books and guides that show the device as an out haul.
... the term has evolved to include both inhaul and outhaul devices for jibs. After checking out some tuning guides for boats like the Mumm 30 I see that the term and rig can apply as you state. I do disagree that a barber hauler is not used for outboard adjustment. I rigged my Nacra 5.2 barber hauler according to class rules and the purpose of the device on this boat is to OPEN the slot from it's naturally closed position. It is set up so that the crew can control it from the windward rail. I have also seen numerous diagrams in other sail trim books and guides that show the device as an out haul.
Joe: Please help me with this as I don't see how it would work. The jib sheet goes from the clew down to the fairlead and then to the winch. Assume I'm closehauled. Now I attach the Barberhauler to the jib sheet some where between the clew and the fairlead. What do I do now to cause the sheet to go out? If I wanted to open the sail up, I could change the position of the fairlead and ease the sheet.
Haulin'
Barberhaulers were originally set up on one-designs to allow the jib sheets to be "outhauled", since their tracks sometimes were placed too far inboard for perfect trim in certain situations. This involved placing a block out on the rail, with a line clipped to the sheet leading through the block, often down through the deck, then back to the cockpit for cleating. Setups which did the opposite and pulled the sheet in were called "inhauls". Today the two are lumped together under the term "barberhauls", but originally there was a definite distinction.
Barberhaulers were originally set up on one-designs to allow the jib sheets to be "outhauled", since their tracks sometimes were placed too far inboard for perfect trim in certain situations. This involved placing a block out on the rail, with a line clipped to the sheet leading through the block, often down through the deck, then back to the cockpit for cleating. Setups which did the opposite and pulled the sheet in were called "inhauls". Today the two are lumped together under the term "barberhauls", but originally there was a definite distinction.
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