Jib track problem

Alan · Dec 17, 2009

More better idea

Leave the current sheet/block assembly as is but place a block on the sheet between the clew and the deck block. From the new block run a line back to a stopper. The new line acts as a twing and is only loaded while twisting off the jib. Of course you will need one for each side.

Personally rather than go through this I would install a track which would allow adjustments to sheeting angle both forward and aft, the best of all worlds.
Adjusting the car forward would give better sail shape while sailing off the wind or when partially reefed. With your design you never get that option.

Stu Jackson · Dec 17, 2009

Is your rig masthead or fractional?

rardiH36 · Dec 17, 2009

A related variation to this thread:

I've seen before in this forum that adding the second block and a controlling line on each side between the normal jib sheet deck blocks and the clew also can be used as a barber-hauler to pull the sheet further in toward the center line for better pointing. This has interest for me since my boat doesn't have jib block track. Instead the jib sheet blocks are anchored the farthest outside possible on the toe rail by snap shackles. But the advantage is that the blocks can be moved forward/aft along the toe rail to heart's content depending on wind conditions and/or the amount of jib/genoa that's unfurled. I haven't tried the second block method for barber hauling because it would seem that with every tack, when the sheets go loose, the blocks would fall and bang around on the deck ... causing dings and damage. Or the blocks and the lines would become twisted and tangled with the jib sheet. I'm probably misunderstanding the description of the concept. Anyway, thanks in advance for further details of the setup.

regards,
Rardi

Scott T-Bird · Dec 17, 2009

Adding tracks for your fair leads is a good up-grade for your boat if you are at all conscience of twist in your head sail. On the other hand, I assume you have a fractional rig with a relatively small head sail, meaning that the head sail is not the engine for your boat as it would be on a masthead rig, so I would think that headsail twist is not such an important issue that you would want to go to the expense of adding tracks.

However, by adding tracks, you may be able to get your fair leads more inboard than they are now, which is a good thing for upwind sailing. The tracks on our boat are on the rail and I would like to add inboard tracks just to gain a few degrees heading upwind.

dewhunter · Dec 17, 2009

allens more better idea

The h26/260 is fracional rigged . Allen has the best solution for the jib sheeting problem. Tracks and car would be great if only the deck was thick enough to hold the hardware or you could access the underside to reinforce the tracks. The jib has a problem of backwinding the main if you don't pull the clew outboard and back. I did this on my h26 and have had good results with sail trim and making more power. Banging the deck with hardware does'nt happen unless lines are very loose. Hope tis helps you,Gary

Gudenuph · Dec 17, 2009

Jib Sheet Tweeker

Quoddy said:
Here's the problem. I want to twist the jib (110) while its fully unfurled but I don't have any jib tracks. The present fairlead is a swivel block positioned on the deck for equal pull on foot and leech. I would like to avoid putting holes in the deck (fairly new boat, perfectly sound and watertight).

Would this work? I run a line through the present block with a new block on it, which the jib sheet will go through. When this new line is tensioned it will pull the new block tight against the old block so the clue will be sheeted at approximately the same angle. As I release tension on the new line it will allow the new block, sheet and clue to rise directing less tension towards the leech, effectively twisting off the top.
I believe there is a line called a tweaker for a spinnaker that works on a similar principle. Once again would this solution fail to work or might it cause some other unforeseen problem such that I should just start drilling?

What you propose is exactly what we did on our thirty footer even though we had a long track on the rail. You will find that the tweeker is much more convienent and can be adjusted under load (420 sq ft genny) which was quite difficult by moving the car on the track. Thus the sail will be better shaped for the varying conditions. With a furling jib the clew needs to be cut high to allow furling and which also allows an inhaul to effectively narrow the sheeting angle. (The jib bows around the shrouds yet the clew is well inboard) We did this with a single tag line attached to the clew, and which "tacked" with the clew, and drawn inboard with the windward winch. Very effective with a 150% genny. We would never go back to a jenny track and car setup.
Incidently, the tag line is very useful in heavy-weather-short-tack beating up the channel, but that's another story.

For what it's worth, Geohan

rardiH36 · Dec 17, 2009

Gudenuph said:
We did this with a single tag line attached to the clew, and which "tacked" with the clew, and drawn inboard with the windward winch. Very effective with a 150% genny. We would never go back to a jenny track and car setup.
Incidently, the tag line is very useful in heavy-weather-short-tack beating up the channel, but that's another story.

Geohan:

The tag line concept you mention is how I am currently "barber-hauling" my 135 genoa to get the clew closer to the centerline than I otherwise can acheive with my toe rail fairlead. The tag line is attached to a snap shackle the onto the clew ring. The line is 1/2", so when I tack the weight of the line generally keeps the end still on the deck. The height and angle of the cabin top winches on each side of the campanion way are just right for hauling the clew in without affecting the up/down angle by much. Main drawback to this set-up is that someone needs to go on deck after each tack after the sheet is tensioned to grab the line on the down sloping leeward side. And with the often strong winds on SF Bay the boat can be heeling at very exhilarting angle. One hand firmly gripping the boat is a must.

rardi

paulj · Dec 17, 2009

I call them twings......so does this person.
http://thistle.dwinchester.com/RiggingPictureGalery/ChristopherLaBorde_Twings/Thistle.html

paulj :troll:

Joe · Dec 17, 2009

Install a short track, 2-3 feet. It won't leak. It's a good upgrade, which will increase the value of the boat. Overall it will be a simpler solution.

The twing idea works fine if you want to "close down" the leech, but your question mentioned twisting off, which would mean "opening it up". That would require moving the lead back, not forward. In any event, the tension on the twing will be huge, not like it is on a spinnaker where you see them used most often, so you'll need a pretty solid deck connection for it's block and..... some kind of winch connection to adjust it.... Pluse there may be complications if you must make a quick tack. ..... Nahhh.. go buy 2 - 3 foot sections of 1" T-track and some inexpensive Ronstan sliding cars. You can remove the old fixed mount blocks and use them on the cars. Good project, you'll be glad you did it.

BTW a barberhauler will allow you to adjust the "lead angle" by moving the clew inboard or outboard. It gives you some control of the "slot" between main and jib. You can temporarily rig them by creatively using existing cabin top winches and/or connection points on the deck or cabin top for blocks. Try messing around with this idea. As others have mentioned, you might find it suits your purpose as much as moving the leads forward or backward.

On my old Nacra catamaran I barberhauled the jib outboard when sailing off the wind. Newer beach cats have track mounted leads on the forward crossbar... very cool.

Mac Daddy · Dec 17, 2009

Sounds like your describing a twing. You need tracks.