Had an interesting experience this weekend. Checked knot on jib sheet and it was ok, but didn't notice line had chafed through the cover, and when I trimmed the jib, the cover came off, the knot came out, and the jib was free on the starboard side. Dpes anyone know of any reason that the jib sheet should not have a loop spliced in so no knot is necessary? *yks
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What are the alternatives?
The chafe part is a little confusing, but the question about knots makes sense to me. On my boat I have a pair of jib sheets attached to the clew of the jib with bowline knots. I think this is pretty standard. One problem is that knots can get hung up on things while tacking. Are there alternative ways to attach the jib sheets to the jib. Splices to permanently attach the sheet to the jib? Eye splice and shackle? One long line with a larks head through the clew? I think the reason for the use of bowline knots is that any other knot is going to lock onto the jib and you won't be able to untie it. These things are under tremendous force. I think the reason that lines are not spliced through the jib is that each jib would need dedicated sheets. What do other people do?
The chafe part is a little confusing, but the question about knots makes sense to me. On my boat I have a pair of jib sheets attached to the clew of the jib with bowline knots. I think this is pretty standard. One problem is that knots can get hung up on things while tacking. Are there alternative ways to attach the jib sheets to the jib. Splices to permanently attach the sheet to the jib? Eye splice and shackle? One long line with a larks head through the clew? I think the reason for the use of bowline knots is that any other knot is going to lock onto the jib and you won't be able to untie it. These things are under tremendous force. I think the reason that lines are not spliced through the jib is that each jib would need dedicated sheets. What do other people do?
Splice is stronger but...
An eye splice is stronger than a knot, but once it's there, it's there. Even if your head sail is on a furler, you will have to take it off in the fall with both sheets attached - on my boat this would add significant weight and bulk. If you used a shackle with an eye splice, you will have a big weight on the clew of the sail, (given the stress on the clew you will need two big shackles). Imagine someone on the foredeck getting whacked with that. It might also affect sail trim downwind.
An eye splice is stronger than a knot, but once it's there, it's there. Even if your head sail is on a furler, you will have to take it off in the fall with both sheets attached - on my boat this would add significant weight and bulk. If you used a shackle with an eye splice, you will have a big weight on the clew of the sail, (given the stress on the clew you will need two big shackles). Imagine someone on the foredeck getting whacked with that. It might also affect sail trim downwind.
larks head
Hello, I use a single line with a larks head where the sheet passes through the clew. It works great, no knots, shackles, etc.. It's a little difficult to get the sheet off at the end of the season, but it does come out. Barry
Hello, I use a single line with a larks head where the sheet passes through the clew. It works great, no knots, shackles, etc.. It's a little difficult to get the sheet off at the end of the season, but it does come out. Barry
Sheet bend?
A sheet bend is a knot typically used to tie a line to another of different diameter. Where do you come up with this nonsense "that's what it's meant for?" Standard practice is a bowline. Many tie it "inside out" so the the tail won't hang up on things. The bowline is easily tied, strong, won't cinch on the clew, and is easily untied, even after it has had a big load on it. You might want to unite this quickly, so an eye splice is not a good idea. Also, many take the sheets off, use them on other sails, and end-for-end them anually.
A sheet bend is a knot typically used to tie a line to another of different diameter. Where do you come up with this nonsense "that's what it's meant for?" Standard practice is a bowline. Many tie it "inside out" so the the tail won't hang up on things. The bowline is easily tied, strong, won't cinch on the clew, and is easily untied, even after it has had a big load on it. You might want to unite this quickly, so an eye splice is not a good idea. Also, many take the sheets off, use them on other sails, and end-for-end them anually.
Bowlines ...
Bowlines are for people that can't tie a Buntline Hitch. Buntline Hitches are for people that can't afford proper shackles (J-Locks) at $125+ each. Sheet Bends are for tying lines together if you don't want the knot to be very secure.
Bowlines are for people that can't tie a Buntline Hitch. Buntline Hitches are for people that can't afford proper shackles (J-Locks) at $125+ each. Sheet Bends are for tying lines together if you don't want the knot to be very secure.
Actually i learned to tie a sheet bend
on the weaving floor of a cotton mill where it was called a weavers knot. As long as you maintain tension on a sheet bend it is good but please don't rely on it if the line will flog a lot. There are other knots and hitches that will serve better. Learn them.
on the weaving floor of a cotton mill where it was called a weavers knot. As long as you maintain tension on a sheet bend it is good but please don't rely on it if the line will flog a lot. There are other knots and hitches that will serve better. Learn them.
One solution
One solution would be to use bowlines and tie on/remove your sheets each time you sail. This way you can check for chafe, and know that the sheets are secure. Shackles are great until you have a sheet fly loose, and have a shackle knock your teeth out while you're trying to capture a flogging sail. Just my $.02 worth.
One solution would be to use bowlines and tie on/remove your sheets each time you sail. This way you can check for chafe, and know that the sheets are secure. Shackles are great until you have a sheet fly loose, and have a shackle knock your teeth out while you're trying to capture a flogging sail. Just my $.02 worth.
Larry's got the right idea....
but,...Some of you people need to read a basic sailing book before you start giving advice. Sheet Bend... are you kidding? Sorry Moody, I know you're an expert at many things but just knowing how to tie a buntline hitch doesn't qualify it over the bowline for sheet attachment. For one thing, the buntline hitch can be difficult to untie and the knot will cinch up tight when put under a strain.(good for attaching a line to a shackle, but not to a sail) Mike, if you want to prolong the life of your expensive genoa sheets, don't leave them out in the elements. Remove them when you're not sailing and stow them inside. For RF rigs, tie on a single line after removing the sheets to allow you to roll up the sail securely while you're away. Two sheets, attached with bowlines is preferable on any boat over 25 feet. That allows you to reverse the lines often and vary knot location. It takes less than 10 seconds to tie on a jibsheet, so what's the big deal. Storing your sails with the sheets left attached is bad for the sails and makes for a heavy sail bag. It also makes for some rather ineffecient sail changes. Your jib/genoa sheets are the most actively used pieces of rigging on your boat.... take care of them.
but,...Some of you people need to read a basic sailing book before you start giving advice. Sheet Bend... are you kidding? Sorry Moody, I know you're an expert at many things but just knowing how to tie a buntline hitch doesn't qualify it over the bowline for sheet attachment. For one thing, the buntline hitch can be difficult to untie and the knot will cinch up tight when put under a strain.(good for attaching a line to a shackle, but not to a sail) Mike, if you want to prolong the life of your expensive genoa sheets, don't leave them out in the elements. Remove them when you're not sailing and stow them inside. For RF rigs, tie on a single line after removing the sheets to allow you to roll up the sail securely while you're away. Two sheets, attached with bowlines is preferable on any boat over 25 feet. That allows you to reverse the lines often and vary knot location. It takes less than 10 seconds to tie on a jibsheet, so what's the big deal. Storing your sails with the sheets left attached is bad for the sails and makes for a heavy sail bag. It also makes for some rather ineffecient sail changes. Your jib/genoa sheets are the most actively used pieces of rigging on your boat.... take care of them.
Stowing lines in sail bag ...
When lines are salty and wet, I agree with not stowing them. I've found it easy to stow them in the sailbag since we are on fresh water and the lines are always dry when I stow them. I use a bow line, but found that the lines were wearing quickly when left on the sail to be used over and over at the same stress point. So I tied a little bit longer loop with a bowline so that the tail doesn't hang up on things and then passed the line doubled through the loop onto the clew. They don't get hung up and the stress points have half the load and have not worn so far. I was thinking about the comments regarding being able to remove the lines easily and I think this would also be a simple matter of untying the bowline.
When lines are salty and wet, I agree with not stowing them. I've found it easy to stow them in the sailbag since we are on fresh water and the lines are always dry when I stow them. I use a bow line, but found that the lines were wearing quickly when left on the sail to be used over and over at the same stress point. So I tied a little bit longer loop with a bowline so that the tail doesn't hang up on things and then passed the line doubled through the loop onto the clew. They don't get hung up and the stress points have half the load and have not worn so far. I was thinking about the comments regarding being able to remove the lines easily and I think this would also be a simple matter of untying the bowline.
Avoid shackle
Conventional wisdom for rigs without roller furling is to avoid shackles as they can be dangerous to the crewman who has to go forward to pull in the jib. I found this to be true on my Catalina 25--ouch! A shackle on the end of a flogging sail can deliver a nasty blow to the face...
Conventional wisdom for rigs without roller furling is to avoid shackles as they can be dangerous to the crewman who has to go forward to pull in the jib. I found this to be true on my Catalina 25--ouch! A shackle on the end of a flogging sail can deliver a nasty blow to the face...
Interesting...
my Jib sheets have never been off the Jib since I bought the boat. From the looks of 'em, they've been attached for many years. Considering the fact that I only have the one Jib and non reefing main, I don't do much swapping.
my Jib sheets have never been off the Jib since I bought the boat. From the looks of 'em, they've been attached for many years. Considering the fact that I only have the one Jib and non reefing main, I don't do much swapping.
Best way to fasten a single line to the headsail
The last two issues of Good Old Boat had an excellent approach. (And a few alternative approaches too.) I've tried it, and it works well on my 20 footer. The effect is similar to the Larks Head Barry L mentions, but with no distortion to the clew of your jib - and with the ability to swiftly detach the sheet from one sail and use the same sheet for the next. It solves David's 'fastening a single line' issue - but without needing to attach the sheet itself to the clew. Attach a short (6-8") line permanently to the jib clew via an eye splice. (Alternatively, use an unattached line, twice as long, passed through the clew and doubled back on itself. In the next steps, treat this doubled line it as if it were a single line.) The jib sheet is a single line, ie as long as your port and starboard sheets combined. "Fold' the jib sheet at the midpoint, to form a little loop. Attach the permanent clew line (or the doubled unattached line) to the jib sheet using a double sheet bend. The link shows you how to tie this bend. It's really easy: takes about 2 seconds. In their illustration, the dark line coming from the right is your jib sheet; the light line coming from the left is the clew line, which actually does the bending. BTW: three posts above suggest that the sheet bend is an unsatisfactory knot. This is true - but the DOUBLE sheet bend is much better: withstands any amount of flogging, etc. If you use multiple headsails, attach clew lines to each of them. Then you only ever need to use the one jib sheet. Just detach one sail from the sheet; bend the next sail onto it. Dick
The last two issues of Good Old Boat had an excellent approach. (And a few alternative approaches too.) I've tried it, and it works well on my 20 footer. The effect is similar to the Larks Head Barry L mentions, but with no distortion to the clew of your jib - and with the ability to swiftly detach the sheet from one sail and use the same sheet for the next. It solves David's 'fastening a single line' issue - but without needing to attach the sheet itself to the clew. Attach a short (6-8") line permanently to the jib clew via an eye splice. (Alternatively, use an unattached line, twice as long, passed through the clew and doubled back on itself. In the next steps, treat this doubled line it as if it were a single line.) The jib sheet is a single line, ie as long as your port and starboard sheets combined. "Fold' the jib sheet at the midpoint, to form a little loop. Attach the permanent clew line (or the doubled unattached line) to the jib sheet using a double sheet bend. The link shows you how to tie this bend. It's really easy: takes about 2 seconds. In their illustration, the dark line coming from the right is your jib sheet; the light line coming from the left is the clew line, which actually does the bending. BTW: three posts above suggest that the sheet bend is an unsatisfactory knot. This is true - but the DOUBLE sheet bend is much better: withstands any amount of flogging, etc. If you use multiple headsails, attach clew lines to each of them. Then you only ever need to use the one jib sheet. Just detach one sail from the sheet; bend the next sail onto it. Dick
Single line not a good idea
There are many reasons to prefer two lines knotted to the clew over a single line, some involving life and limb. For example, if one fouls, you can tack, untie when head to wind, and sail on the other tack while you clear the fouled line. Can't end-for-end one line. Most common, safest, and most widely practiced method, coastal and offshore, is two sheets, tied with bowlines to the clew. I don't get the need to design a way around this. The "Good Old Boat" method cited sounds retarded to me. Much more trouble and nonsense for a very simple situation. Shackles on headsail clews are potential killers.
There are many reasons to prefer two lines knotted to the clew over a single line, some involving life and limb. For example, if one fouls, you can tack, untie when head to wind, and sail on the other tack while you clear the fouled line. Can't end-for-end one line. Most common, safest, and most widely practiced method, coastal and offshore, is two sheets, tied with bowlines to the clew. I don't get the need to design a way around this. The "Good Old Boat" method cited sounds retarded to me. Much more trouble and nonsense for a very simple situation. Shackles on headsail clews are potential killers.
Sheet Bend YES!!!
I have been using a double sheet bend all season. Tie a 3 foot smaller diameter rope (I use 1/4") to the jib using a larks head knot. Bend the jib sheet in the middle in a loop and taking the two ends of the small rope together tie the sheet bend. This knot is easy to tie, strong, easy to untie to facilitate sail changes. It keeps a metal shackel off the jib where it could injure someone during tack changes. There was an article in the May/June This Old Boat on different methods to connect the jib to the sheet, and in a follow up letter in the July/August describing the double sheet bend. I was using a larks head before theis year but decided to use my scout skills to come up with a different method. The lars head works but is a pain to change. The double sheet bend makes sail changes as easy as shackle. The sheet bend is a strong knot and used historically exactly for this purpose.
I have been using a double sheet bend all season. Tie a 3 foot smaller diameter rope (I use 1/4") to the jib using a larks head knot. Bend the jib sheet in the middle in a loop and taking the two ends of the small rope together tie the sheet bend. This knot is easy to tie, strong, easy to untie to facilitate sail changes. It keeps a metal shackel off the jib where it could injure someone during tack changes. There was an article in the May/June This Old Boat on different methods to connect the jib to the sheet, and in a follow up letter in the July/August describing the double sheet bend. I was using a larks head before theis year but decided to use my scout skills to come up with a different method. The lars head works but is a pain to change. The double sheet bend makes sail changes as easy as shackle. The sheet bend is a strong knot and used historically exactly for this purpose.
Rudeness and ignorance seem to go
together. A sheet bend is so called because it has historically been used to tie (bend) a sheet to a clew line without large and lumpy hardware. jviss, you are not designing a new way, unless you do what you are doing. The old way is the sheet bend. I started sailing at 13, and I am now 56...I think I have some of it worked out!
together. A sheet bend is so called because it has historically been used to tie (bend) a sheet to a clew line without large and lumpy hardware. jviss, you are not designing a new way, unless you do what you are doing. The old way is the sheet bend. I started sailing at 13, and I am now 56...I think I have some of it worked out!
Old ways are new again ...
I'll agree that sheet bend and clew line combination is a pretty good attachment method. The J105 guys are using a clew line to attach the sheets on asymmetric spinnakers. The doubled clew line with a lark's head might be a handy way to tidy a furled sail so the sheets can be stowed properly. I'm just not a fan of loops at the clew of the sail. Seen sheet bowlines snag on all manner of things. I hope y'all noticed the smiley on my first post. Not tryin' to be rude, just having fun.
I'll agree that sheet bend and clew line combination is a pretty good attachment method. The J105 guys are using a clew line to attach the sheets on asymmetric spinnakers. The doubled clew line with a lark's head might be a handy way to tidy a furled sail so the sheets can be stowed properly. I'm just not a fan of loops at the clew of the sail. Seen sheet bowlines snag on all manner of things. I hope y'all noticed the smiley on my first post. Not tryin' to be rude, just having fun.
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