Jib Sheet rigging, winches and travelers?

[joes new addiction]

This is on my '71 PT 1/4.
I've just about finished the cabin refitting and wiring, and was sitting under the tarp in the cockpit listenig to the wind beat the tarp WISHING I was running along the winds, rather than freezing my kester in the driveway!
I got to playing with the winches for the jib sheets, the traveler pulley set up. (trying to figure out how I'm gonna put my mast running/anchor light plug).
Then it hit me.........................
The winches are on top of my cabin.
Below on the front? rear? entrance? of the cabin is a set of jam cleats to secure the jib sheets.............. O.K., I go that.
On the cockpit sides are a set of travelers with a pulley......
These travlers run 75% of the cockpit lenght.
The mast set up is on the cockpit floor, got that.......
When I as at ASA sailing school last spring the jib sheets ran though these travlers pulleys, on the cockpit sides and to a winch in front of the traveler, (or maybe the back of the travler), (or something like that, I can't remember the set up, it was a Cat. 22').
I was taught to use the travelers to adjust the trim of the jib-forward in light winds, middle to start, (mark the middle so you have a starting point), back in heavy winds.
This I got.
How do I run my sheets from jig to the traveler to the winches, down to the jam cleat?
If I'm in heavy winds, and run the sheet from the rearward part of the traveler to the winch, I bet there is a 30 degree angle of the sheet to the winch in the cockpit.
On my AFC 16', the P.O. had 3 eyes on the cockpit sides, easy to use and figure out, no winches. Now that I've gotten a "real" sailboat I'm lost in space.
There must be SOMETHING I'm missing here?
If you look on line, "PT 1/4 sailboat for sale in Pa." you can see my baby (in much finer days) and the winch travler set up. Maybe a pic is worth my 1000 words!
Joe
New sailor, new to me boat, new problems!
It seemed so easy at school and on U tube!!!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Let's come to an understanding!

Whew ... I wonder if everybody else is as confused by your terminology as I am?

First, the cabin mounted winches are normally used for halyards and possibly mainsail control lines ... if they are led back to the cockpit. The cleats on the cabin top are for these lines. On my boat, I eliminated the cleats and installed clutches so that I can free-up the winches to use as I please. The picture shows a cabin top winch with 4 clutches for various mainsail control lines and halyards for foresails (on port side).

The term traveler is used primarily to describe the track which your mainsail is attached to via the traveler car and the block assemblies. It runs side-to side, not fore and aft.

I think you are using the term traveler to describe your genoa tracks on the sides of the cockpit (or on the rails?). This may be technically correct but very confusing because everybody thinks of a traveler as a mainsail control. I have no idea what you mean by mast set up on the cockpit floor.

Back to the jib (genoa) controls ... the pulley on the genoa track is call a block or a car and it is (should be) adjustable along the track. The sheet will be led from the car aft probably to a winch that is mounted along your rails. If you don't have winches there, then you are expected to physically manhandle your sheets, which could be very difficult if you don't modify your technique accordingly. You must have cleats of some sort at the cockpit rails to secure your gneoa sheets. The cleats could be a jam cleat, a horn cleat, or maybe a cam cleat.

The picture shows a genoa sheet leading from the car (block) on the track to the winch on my stbd rail. Behind the winch is a horn cleat (not shown) to secure the sheet. You can also see my traveler for the mainsail.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Hmmm ... that does look like an odd set-up. It appears that there is a winch more towards the centerline which you would use for halyards and such. The winches on the rear corners of the cockpit look like they could be set up for the jib sheets by turning the lines severely back from the jib cars when they are set aft. You also have cleats aft of the tracks. By micro-tuning your technique, I would think that you may be able to secure the sheets on the cleats without using winches.

It also looks like you have cam cleats at the corners of the stern?

 

[joes new addiction]

Sorry for the poor termology. My "Rosetta Stone sailing langauge C.D. is in the mail!
Yeah, as you look at the pic, I can't seem to figure it all out.
I don't want to even go into all the hardware, cleats, winches, mounted on the piece of almn over my hatch cover in the center! I ASS-U-Med that winch was for the main sail, (but also thought I could use some of it to lower and re raise the mast on the water)
There is enough "things" there to refit a boat!
At first I thought I'd have to "muscle the jib lines, but then when I look at the 2 winches, I thoiught they were part of it.
Guess I'll have to wait til I get warm weatrher and set the mast and raise the jib to figure out everything.....
Joe
That's 1/2 the problem I'm having, trying to figure out what the P.O.(s) did to the boat, and with little info on it.......

 

[RichH]

If Joe's-new-addiction can post a plan view drawing of his boat, a pic, or list a website that has a plan view it would be much better for us to respond.
I think what he's calling a 'traveller' is the jib sheet traveller track and fairlead car.

For such a lightweight (very quickly reacting) boat Id recommend that the jibsheet arrangement be so that he (or his crew) can easily adjust the jibsheet from the 'high side' or opposite side of the boat ... the jibsheet crossing the cockpit to a block (or harken hexaratchet cheek block - preferred) mounted near or on the rail, then lead to the jib fairlead car on its track ... (what he is probably calling a 'traveller') then to the jibs clew with mounted 'double block' on the clew and back to terminate at the fairlead car - 2:1 mechanical advantage needing only 'half' the strength to hold the line + friction from the hexaratchet when the jib sheet is 'going out', etc., a cam cleat near ones butt available for instant release.
Only danger from such a set up is getting konked in the head by the double block on the jibs clew.
The advantage is that no one has to grind a winch, no one cross the cockpit to adjust the jib and the cam cleat can be in close/instant reach on the 'high side' of the boat - especially good on a relatively small boat when one has to instantly 'dump' a sheet to prevent 'capsize', etc.

A pic would be the best for us to continue this discussion.

 

[tkanzler]

Maybe I'm just stronger than I realize, but when I had a 23 ft boat, I never used the winches. Not for winching, at least. I'd use them as a sort of belaying pin, since it's easy on the hands to let a sheet out under load with half a turn on a winch, but that's about it. For the OP's boat, I'd lead the genoa sheet over the lee side winch to the jammer (with an extra turn if the wind pipes up), or if the high side is preferred, across to the windward drum, then 3/4 or 1-1/4 turns to the jammer, depending on which side is windward. Easy to cut loose, and no real need for extra winches or stoppers. That's at first glance, of course. Things might look a little different while actually sailing that boat.

For everyone's convenience: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/12352

Edit: Looks like the ones at the stern are for a spinnaker, but I can't tell if there are any sheaves in there. But you never know what the PO did, and why.

 

[RichH]

After seeing the links provided, tkanzler has this right. The boat is a raised deck/flush deck and with little possibility of going to a 'standard' control.

In this arrangement, and includes using either the winch closest to the fairlead car or the 'opposite winch' can - because the winches are soooo high - is the probability of a 'wrap' / jam of the jib sheet line on the winch when releasing.
If this were my boat, Id consider to relocate those winches to near the aft end of the genoa track to keep them somewhat 'level' to the track and would use a turning block near the stern of the boat or very end of the genoa track ... Winch --> turning block --> fairlead car ---> clew ... for less likelihood of a winch jam or 'wrap'. With the winches at 'rail level' one could still use the opposite or 'high side' winch to control the jibsheet.

Good call by Tkanzler.

So it then becomes for JoesNewAdventure to tie a jibsheet to the clew, then through the fairlead car on the rail, then around the (either) winch and use the 'cleat' to restrain it. ..... but be sure that the free end of the jibsheet in your hand is held high and above the winch so that the releasing jibsheet doesnt make a 'knot' or become 'tightly entangled' on the winch when 'letting go'.

 

[joes new addiction]

Tanks!
The P.O. was a 72 year young gent, I'll have to ask him when I see him again how he managed to do it all.
I'll most likely be a "solo sailer", so I'll have to set her up with that in mind.
Joe
So much to learn, how can I work and learn to sail? They better pay me to just sail 24/7!