Jib Sheet Cleat

scuzzlebutt · Jun 19, 2011

I've got self tailing winches. They work like a dream. If it's in the budget, upgrade to those.

Mike1956 · Jun 19, 2011

I have set up 3 boats for single handing. two were Catalina 22s. the trick to getting your cam cleat in the correct position requires you to sit in the cockpit at the tiller. Wrap your jib sheet around the winch, put the cam cleat onto the sheet and position it on the coaming where it is most comfortable to use. Make sure that the cam cleat is squared up with the sheet, then have an assistant put a pencil mark around the cleat. Remove the sheet, drill your holes, bed the cleat using machine screws with a backing plate or at least large fender washers. Repeat again for the other side.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=10102&subdeptNum=10191&classNum=10239

Ken · Jun 20, 2011

Years ago I bought them at WM, I'd spring for the aluminum....

Stu Jackson · Jun 20, 2011

Have you considered Winchers? I used them for 12 years on our C25 on SF Bay in all sorts of winds, worked great, never failed.

OldCat · Jun 21, 2011

Clam Cleats - manufacturer's info:

http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleats.asp?menuid=2

There seemed to be some good ideas here - musing a bit - I was sort of wondering if any of these would make the CDI furle luff tension easier to adjust - or my reefing line on the boom and outhaul line - for you ( the OP) maybe they have the size that you wand if you want to stay with a cam cleat.

OC

C22_Lady_OH · Jun 30, 2011

I am new owner realizing the same issue. The only way to set the sheet in the cam cleat is using my foot to put an angle on the line. Self Tailing Winches would be nice but that will take a couple year's worth of budget for "boat stuff". I bought some old school cleats but there didn't seem to be a good angle for those. Does anyone run two sets of cam cleats?

OldCat · Jun 30, 2011

C22_Lady_OH said:
I bought some old school cleats but there didn't seem to be a good angle for those.

One way to get a good lead into a cleat is to make a base to lift it up, or set the cleat at the needed angle. They can be made of wood. Teak is the most 'boaty', but I don't see why something like oak from the local hardware store wouldn't work. Coat with UV resistant spar urethane. Wood bases are used for winches, so why not a cleat?

http://www.google.com/search?q=winc...gc.r_pw.&fp=53e7f82ee4d02a18&biw=1065&bih=837

Our wood workers may well be able to add improvement suggestions...

oc

Ken · Jun 30, 2011

Just wanted to toss this out there. When single handing I use the winch as a turning block then cross sheet to the high side. This allows for easier control esp in stronger winds.

I only use one cleat.

Pretty sure it's the Portland OR fleet that has quite a write up on the Fleet's Tech page. Check the C22 National Org website too.

Bilbo · Jun 30, 2011

The advantage of the Jam cleats or as tey are also called "clam cleats" over the cam-type is from my experience is that they can be released easier when in a tough situation but the jam cleats can also slip. I've had cams jam.
Clam or Jam Cleat: http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=25030F

Regarding raising up the cleat with a block of wood. Here is something of what a pad for that purpose looks like:
http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=25030F
They use teak because it is very rot resistant. Something like oak wouldn't hold up too long maybe 3-5 years where Teak would last 30 years or so. In Ohio, we have locust trees that are used by farmers as fence posts. I think that it would last a good 50 years also. But I have no clue where one could buy locust lumber. If one has the jam cleats, it is important that the line is the correct diameter then when you set it into the cleat, make sure that you push down on the line that comes out of the back side of the cleat to help to set it.
Also the Clam /Jam type cleat needs to be positioned so that the line leading to the exit side of the winch is inline with the direction of the cleat or it would probably let go. The closer that the cleat is located to the winch, the more important this would be.

Stu Jackson · Jun 30, 2011

Jam cleats and cam cleats are two different things. Jam cleats are like "regular" cleats but have a different horn, like the European jam cleats. Clam cleats are those open faced two pieces of plastic with ridges on the inner side.

OldCat · Jun 30, 2011

Bilbo said:
The advantage of the Jam cleats or as tey are also called "clam cleats" over the cam-type is from my experience is that they can be released easier when in a tough situation but the jam cleats can also slip. I've had cams jam.
Clam or Jam Cleat: http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=25030F

Regarding raising up the cleat with a block of wood. Here is something of what a pad for that purpose looks like:
http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=25030F
They use teak because it is very rot resistant. Something like oak wouldn't hold up too long maybe 3-5 years where Teak would last 30 years or so.

I agree on cam cleats - I have had them jam as well - always at a BAD time. I only use them for lines that don't always have to release.

I think oak will last - IF it is maintained. It will need more work than teak. It will need something like spar urethane to protect it - perhaps better with a coat of epoxy below the UV protecting urethane. As for oak's durability, it is hard to argue with the Navy's oldest commissioned warship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution

OC

Bilbo · Jul 1, 2011

OldCat said:
I agree on cam cleats - I have had them jam as well - always at a BAD time. I only use them for lines that don't always have to release.

This is because the tighter the line, the harder the cam's force is.

I think oak will last - IF it is maintained. It will need more work than teak. It will need something like spar urethane to protect it - perhaps better with a coat of epoxy below the UV protecting urethane. As for oak's durability, it is hard to argue with the Navy's oldest commissioned warship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution

OC

The "IF" part is important in the equation as well as how. I use spar varnish on my teak and no matter what I do, it will develop cracks or chip and water will permeate the wood. So, annual varnishing is the reg. unless I leave it go....as it won't rot. Here is an interesting article about Teak/ Oak:
http://www.articlesbase.com/gardeni...rniture-right-for-me-12698.html#axzz1QqXFGvqM
a forum of boat builders talking about Black Locust:
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?43470-Black-Locust-...-the-new-oak
"Locust has a bad reputation among sawyers because it's so often used for fence rows and is full of staples, and ingrown wire. I've always heard that it's not good for fence posts, as it lasts a year less than granite."
Also here:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Black_locust_uses.html
I think that IF I needed to replace my teak, I'd use Bl. Locust.

I also find it interesting that the cape Hatteras Light was built on a pine cribbing foundation. The pine didn't rot because it was under the waterline of the soil and so remained constantly wet.

Bilbo · Jul 1, 2011

Regarding the U.S.S. Constitution (Old Iron Sides) here is a very interesting article on one of it's first battles.
http://www.history.navy.mil/ussconstitution/history.html
See the section called "The Great Chase" July 16-19, 1812

Ken · Jul 1, 2011

I have Harken cam cleats all over my boat, Main sheet, Vang, Backstay, Traveler, and on the coaming for the jib sheets. I've had them on three boats, never in all the years I've had and used them have I ever had the any to jam or not release... They aren't cheap but for me there best out there. I'd not have any reservations in recommending them to anyone.

Stu Jackson · Jul 1, 2011

davidf said:
Well, I actually found the exact match for the clam cleats. ClamCleat Vertical CL201. If you look at the pictures in my original post, you'll see I have the ClamCleats on about 1" teak risers.

This setup has worked well for me so I'm stickin' with it.

David, I'm confused. I looked at your pictures and you have BOTH cam and clam cleats. Does this mean when the clam cleats don't work you need to fallback to the cam cleats that do?

Help me out here and explain how TWO cleats to do one job makes sense.

My experience has been that clam cleats fail, catastrophically, just when you need them the most, need a good fairlead and downward pull, and are generally a PITA. Just my opinion of course, but I took the clam cleat that Catalina puts on its larger boats for mainsheets off mine. Immediately.

Thanks.

OldCat · Jul 5, 2011

Ken said:
I have Harken cam cleats all over my boat, Main sheet, Vang, Backstay, Traveler, and on the coaming for the jib sheets. I've had them on three boats, never in all the years I've had and used them have I ever had the any to jam or not release... They aren't cheap but for me there best out there. I'd not have any reservations in recommending them to anyone.

I should have been more awake when I wrote my post - where I dislike cam cleats is on the main halyard - which does not apply to the exit of a winch. I had a cam cleat jam when a thunderstorm microburst decided to make me its best buddy. I thought it was far enough away, and it was over the other side of a mountain range. We wound up looking down at the mast

.

I have BAD feelings about cam cleats - that sometimes get overblown in my gut.

OC

Jib Sheet Cleat

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