Hi Peggie, I'm looking at a new Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 37 soon and had a few questions about their plumbing. First of all, the holding tank is stainless steel. Of course the dealer touts this as the way to go but I've always believed otherwise, what do you think? Also, the holding tank is mounted above the water line with a gravity overboard drain and no 'Y' valve, is this an ok arrangement? I'm also looking at a Catalina 350 which has an electric macerating toilet and tthe Jeanneau has a standard manual toilet. The dealer was boo-hooing the electric toilet , your thoughts? Apparently, the water tank is a bladder which didn't sound too good to me either and can ya believe they're still using iron keels (I know you're not the keel mistress)? Thanks Peggie, Bill
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
I don' 'no nuffin' 'bout iron keels, but
All things being equal for you as to layout, sailing characteristics, price etc, I'd go with the Catalina unless the Jeanneau dealer is willing to make some changes in the plumbing: starting with thick-walled rigid plastic water and holding tanks. You might want to print out some of the articles in the HM forum reference library and give 'em to the dealer. Unless it's a straight uphill run from the toilet to the tank, I don't have a real problem with the way it's plumbed...higher in the boat does have the advantage of allowing for more horizontal vent (see the article "holding tank odor--odor out the vent" in the HM library). If it is a straight uphill run, it should be replumbed with an arch in the line close to the toilet...down hill from the top of the arch to the tank. If it's too high to allow that, the tank needs to be relocated. Catalina has gotten a BIT better about their holding tank venting...at least they're not running the vent into a rail stanchion on all their boats any more. Ronco Plastics makes their tanks, which are top quality. However, the best alternative may be to forget the tank altogether...in your waters, you can use a Lectra/San instead. The toilet itself is no big deal. You can take delivery with the manual toilet and install a Raritan SeaEra conversion kit yourself, or negotiate the swap out as part of the deal. I doubt that you'll talk the Jeanneua dealer into making the necessary changes...they'll cost him money in shop man hours and parts--which prob'ly why he's pooh-poohing the electric toilet on the Catalina...if he can convince you it's not a good thing, he won't have to swap out the toilet.
All things being equal for you as to layout, sailing characteristics, price etc, I'd go with the Catalina unless the Jeanneau dealer is willing to make some changes in the plumbing: starting with thick-walled rigid plastic water and holding tanks. You might want to print out some of the articles in the HM forum reference library and give 'em to the dealer. Unless it's a straight uphill run from the toilet to the tank, I don't have a real problem with the way it's plumbed...higher in the boat does have the advantage of allowing for more horizontal vent (see the article "holding tank odor--odor out the vent" in the HM library). If it is a straight uphill run, it should be replumbed with an arch in the line close to the toilet...down hill from the top of the arch to the tank. If it's too high to allow that, the tank needs to be relocated. Catalina has gotten a BIT better about their holding tank venting...at least they're not running the vent into a rail stanchion on all their boats any more. Ronco Plastics makes their tanks, which are top quality. However, the best alternative may be to forget the tank altogether...in your waters, you can use a Lectra/San instead. The toilet itself is no big deal. You can take delivery with the manual toilet and install a Raritan SeaEra conversion kit yourself, or negotiate the swap out as part of the deal. I doubt that you'll talk the Jeanneua dealer into making the necessary changes...they'll cost him money in shop man hours and parts--which prob'ly why he's pooh-poohing the electric toilet on the Catalina...if he can convince you it's not a good thing, he won't have to swap out the toilet.
If the dealer can replace these parts so can you.
Bill: If your dealer could replace these items so can you. I would let this control my decision. As I remember Jeanneaus are built with glassed in stringers/bulkheads. The Catalina, Hunter, Benneteau and Bavarias (many others) have liners. I would take the construction as a plus over the plumbing which needs to be upgraded and modified in most boats anyway. You can probably add a Jabsco electric pump to the head in the Jeanneau if that is what you really want. Do you home work and don't let these salestypes muscle you.
Bill: If your dealer could replace these items so can you. I would let this control my decision. As I remember Jeanneaus are built with glassed in stringers/bulkheads. The Catalina, Hunter, Benneteau and Bavarias (many others) have liners. I would take the construction as a plus over the plumbing which needs to be upgraded and modified in most boats anyway. You can probably add a Jabsco electric pump to the head in the Jeanneau if that is what you really want. Do you home work and don't let these salestypes muscle you.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Yes, he can replace them...but
Only with considerable effort and expense. It's one thing to buy an older "project" boat...but a NEW boat should be delivered in "stock the fridge and go" condition. It shouldn't be necessary to pay for a lot of things you don't want and then have to replace them AND redesign poorly designed systems.
Only with considerable effort and expense. It's one thing to buy an older "project" boat...but a NEW boat should be delivered in "stock the fridge and go" condition. It shouldn't be necessary to pay for a lot of things you don't want and then have to replace them AND redesign poorly designed systems.
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David
Replace?
If this is a new Jeanneau it does have the grid system and I believe the company is now owned by Beneteau. But why would a buyer want to do all that work on a new boat?
If this is a new Jeanneau it does have the grid system and I believe the company is now owned by Beneteau. But why would a buyer want to do all that work on a new boat?
No grid on the 43DS.
David: I was just on the Jeanneau 43DS this spring. All of the stringers are glassed in. My point here is that there are hundreds of these boats sold every year and the owners live with these metal tanks (just like Hunter owners did). I would not let this stop me from purchasing the boat it a tank and a toilet are not to my liking. These are expendable parts anyway. You will be changing some or all of these items within the next 5 years. This is like saying that you are not going to buy a house because the color is not to your liking!
David: I was just on the Jeanneau 43DS this spring. All of the stringers are glassed in. My point here is that there are hundreds of these boats sold every year and the owners live with these metal tanks (just like Hunter owners did). I would not let this stop me from purchasing the boat it a tank and a toilet are not to my liking. These are expendable parts anyway. You will be changing some or all of these items within the next 5 years. This is like saying that you are not going to buy a house because the color is not to your liking!
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David
Grid
Right Steve, the bulkheads and stringers are bonded together and to the hull, Jeanneau refers to this as their grid system.
Right Steve, the bulkheads and stringers are bonded together and to the hull, Jeanneau refers to this as their grid system.
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Bill
Thanks to all..............
for your input and especially to Peggie for giving me an idea of what to look for plumbingwise(geez that lady knows a lot about that s..t) I looked at the Jeanneau SO37 and while it is definitely a step above the BenHunCat it is also definitely lacking in a few important areas. Peggie, there was no loop in the waste line like you mentioned. I could see that in a heel with a full tank, waste could run back down into the toiletnot to mention it being metal. The salesman showed me the structural grid and while I was impressed with it I'm not aware of BenHunCats coming apart in the water thereby making the grid of negligable value. In fact, the deck to hull joint on the Big 3 is better than on the Jeanneau. The Jeanneau was smallish for a 37' boat in fact smaller inside than an H356which is 2 feet shorter and the same beam. There was good storage but the galley is barely adequate. The forward berth is big enough for one person of my size and the aft one is huge but it's almost impossible to get into it. The head was very nice with an upscale look and I had no problem with it. Ventilation was ok but there could have been more hatches and none of em come equipped with screens. The boat is as heavy as the Cat 36 but the engine is only a 27HP so I think it is underpowered for all the motoring we do here in the Puget Sound area. It also seems to be under powered sailwise too and there is a baby stay which would be murder on a headsail. I was surprised that there wasn't a hard vang too. The weatherdecks are Hunter size (too narrow). The cockpit is great and cockpit storage is tops but damn, I wish some of these manufacturers would provide deeper coamings. The rudder is well engineered but then there's the iron keel...i'm just not into rust. All in all it was a very nice boat but seeing it made me realize just how much value you get from BenHunCat and especially Cat
for your input and especially to Peggie for giving me an idea of what to look for plumbingwise(geez that lady knows a lot about that s..t) I looked at the Jeanneau SO37 and while it is definitely a step above the BenHunCat it is also definitely lacking in a few important areas. Peggie, there was no loop in the waste line like you mentioned. I could see that in a heel with a full tank, waste could run back down into the toiletnot to mention it being metal. The salesman showed me the structural grid and while I was impressed with it I'm not aware of BenHunCats coming apart in the water thereby making the grid of negligable value. In fact, the deck to hull joint on the Big 3 is better than on the Jeanneau. The Jeanneau was smallish for a 37' boat in fact smaller inside than an H356which is 2 feet shorter and the same beam. There was good storage but the galley is barely adequate. The forward berth is big enough for one person of my size and the aft one is huge but it's almost impossible to get into it. The head was very nice with an upscale look and I had no problem with it. Ventilation was ok but there could have been more hatches and none of em come equipped with screens. The boat is as heavy as the Cat 36 but the engine is only a 27HP so I think it is underpowered for all the motoring we do here in the Puget Sound area. It also seems to be under powered sailwise too and there is a baby stay which would be murder on a headsail. I was surprised that there wasn't a hard vang too. The weatherdecks are Hunter size (too narrow). The cockpit is great and cockpit storage is tops but damn, I wish some of these manufacturers would provide deeper coamings. The rudder is well engineered but then there's the iron keel...i'm just not into rust. All in all it was a very nice boat but seeing it made me realize just how much value you get from BenHunCat and especially Cat
If you are looking.....
Bill: If you are looking at new boats in this range, then do yourself a favor and look at the Bavaria too. (this should help cloud the issue even more)
Bill: If you are looking at new boats in this range, then do yourself a favor and look at the Bavaria too. (this should help cloud the issue even more)
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Bill
Thanks for the suggestion Steve.........
I checked out the Bavaria and while it and the Jeanneau both exhibit a higher level of fit and finish they do not equal the Catalina in space (living aboard)and features. For 15-30 thousand dollars less I can live with the Catalinas "rough edges". If I like the 350 when I see it I'll order one otherwise I'm going to order another 36MKII and modify the holding tank arrangement.
I checked out the Bavaria and while it and the Jeanneau both exhibit a higher level of fit and finish they do not equal the Catalina in space (living aboard)and features. For 15-30 thousand dollars less I can live with the Catalinas "rough edges". If I like the 350 when I see it I'll order one otherwise I'm going to order another 36MKII and modify the holding tank arrangement.
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