Jeaneau's without holding tanks?

[Don s/v Tellico]

A friend in my marina swears his brand new (2005) Jeanneau 35' doesn't have a holding tank installed. He says the head is plumbed straight to the thru-hull. Boat is here on the Chesapeake, many, many miles from the ocean.Is this possible/legal? I looked at their website and some of the used ones on YW. They list specs for water and fuel, but coincidentially(?) none for waste.

 

[Bill4867]

NOT LEGAL

MOST DEFINETLY NOT LEGAL. SOUNDS LIKE YOUR FRIEND IS A BIT CONFUSED.

 

[Steve]

No holding tank

This is very possible. Holding tanks are only installed on US-bound yachts. Jeanneau, built in France, probably just overlooked it. They send a lot of their fleet to the Caribbean where holding tanks are not required.

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

To add to the confusion...

this guy has had boats all his life so he's not a newbe. Also, he has removed the handle to the thru-hull to comply with the requirements. Maybe the tank is an option?I'll be interested to hear Peggy's response.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Definitely not legal.

Either he has a tank but doesn't know where it is--which is possible if there's a y-valve that allows him to choose to between flushing overboard or going into the tank, but he doesn't know he has it either--or the boat really doesn't have one. If it doesn't, he has two choices on the Bay: install a tank, or install a treatment device (ie Lectra/San). The Bay is NOT "no discharge"...in fact, there are only two small NDZ on the Bay...so the discharge of treated waste is legal.You might want to refer him to the MD DNR marine sanitation info for the Bay here: http://www.dnr.state.md.us/boating/pumpout/ndz.pdfIt also appears he could use the info at the link below too! If there is no tank, and he's closed the thru-hull, how is he using the toilet? It has to go someplace! Or is he just not using it? Holding tanks are optional on many European boats, btw...however, I'm surprised any US dealer would order a boat without one.

 

[Don12364]

Look on Deck

Don,If there is a holding tank there will also normally be a deck fitting for the pump out.Some very early charter boats had tanks which were pumped out directly into the sea when several miles offshore, so they did not have deck fittings but this is not done nowadays.

 

[mortyd]

jenneau

don't tempt an italian to comment on french boats.

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

duh...leave it to the English guy.

Just walked down to the boat and there is a waste pumpout deck plate, ergo, there's a tank. The guy's a bigger idiot than I thought (and I'm not as smart as I think either!) Sorry for the wild goose chase.Interesting tho that none of the boats for sale that I looked at list a waste capacity.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Don't start spitting feathers yet, Don

A deck pumpout fitting is a good indication that the boat has a holding tank, but it's no guarantee. But at least you know about where it should be, which should make it easier to find.

 

[Don s/v Tellico]

Thanks Peggy...

My original question, which I didn't present very well in my inital post, is whether it's legal for a manufacturer to make/sell a boat in the US without a holding tank or treatment system? Is it solely the owner's obligation to make sure it's legal, or do manufacturers' have obligations too?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Here's the applicable federal law on it:

33 CFR 159.5 says: "Requirements for vessel manufacturers.No manufacturer may manufacture for sale, sell, offer for sale, or distribute for sale or resale any vessel equipped with installed toilet facilities unless it is equipped with:(a) An operable Type II or III device that has a label on it under §159.16 or that is certified under §159.12 or §159.12a; or(b) An operable Type I device that has a label on it under §159.16 or that is certified under §159.12, if the vessel is 19.7 meters (65 feet) or less in length."33 CFR 159.7 says:"Requirements for vessel operators.(a) No person may operate any vessel equipped with installed toilet facilities unless it is equipped with:(1) An operable Type II or III device that has a label on it under §159.16 or that is certified under §159.12 or §159.12a; or(2) An operable Type I device that has a label on it under §159.16 or that is certified under §159.12, if the vessel is 19.7 meters (65 feet) or less in length."If you want to search out all the other references, you can download 33 CFR 159 from here: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=86d314715a20ea99670b2d5376c284ec&rgn=div5&view=text&node=33:2.0.1.5.27&idno=33So yes, it is illegal to mfr or sell a boat in the US which isn't equipped with either a holding tank or a Type I or II MSD...but it's also the responsibility of the vessel operator (note that the language is "operator," not necessarily the owner) to keep his vessel in compliance with local laws, whether the mfr or dealer has met his legal responsibility or not. Iow, if the boat was originally sold into waters in which the discharge of treated waste is legal, but is moved to "no discharge" waters--or the waters he's in are changed to "no discharge"--it's the owner/operator's responsibility modify his boat to meet the new requirements. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.