I confess I've never run jacklines on any boat I've had; mainly because I've never needed to. But the time is coming...so, can anyone give me any advice on how to attach the lines, how much slack, etc. I've already bought a harness and clip from West Marine, but I'm kinda clueless as to what the next step is. By the way, I have a dodger, which I'm sure complicates matters. My boat is a Hunter 326. Thanks!
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Mike DiMario
My Way!
Scott, I am, by no means, an authority on jack lines. We have had occasion to use the ones that we have. I attached a jackline on both the starboard and port side. I ran it from the aft cleat to the fore cleat on each side. I can clip on from the cockpit and travel the entire length of the boat. With a 6' tether, I can reach amidships from anywhere. My thinking is that this setup is not necessarily going to prevent you from falling over. It will however keep you from getting separated from the boat. Not a very pleasant thought, if you single hand your boat. Anyhow, I committed myself to sharing my thoughts on the subject. Now the real authorities can add their wisdom. Happy Sailing, Mike D
Scott, I am, by no means, an authority on jack lines. We have had occasion to use the ones that we have. I attached a jackline on both the starboard and port side. I ran it from the aft cleat to the fore cleat on each side. I can clip on from the cockpit and travel the entire length of the boat. With a 6' tether, I can reach amidships from anywhere. My thinking is that this setup is not necessarily going to prevent you from falling over. It will however keep you from getting separated from the boat. Not a very pleasant thought, if you single hand your boat. Anyhow, I committed myself to sharing my thoughts on the subject. Now the real authorities can add their wisdom. Happy Sailing, Mike D
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Chuck Wayne
jacklines
Mike's got the right idea-try to run the jackline from the bow cleats aft to something really secure-never a lifeline-and end it so if you go overboardat the stern you will stay on the boat-don't go all the way aft, since you'll hang by your tether-if you're trailing astern it's almost impossible to get back on board unassisted. keep them tight, and if possible use a double tether so you can always be clipped to something as you move around
Mike's got the right idea-try to run the jackline from the bow cleats aft to something really secure-never a lifeline-and end it so if you go overboardat the stern you will stay on the boat-don't go all the way aft, since you'll hang by your tether-if you're trailing astern it's almost impossible to get back on board unassisted. keep them tight, and if possible use a double tether so you can always be clipped to something as you move around
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David
Jackli
I agree with Chuck about not going all the way aft. Also, you may want to purchase pad eyes with backing plates and install them as far inboard as possible while still providing the movement you deem necessary.
I agree with Chuck about not going all the way aft. Also, you may want to purchase pad eyes with backing plates and install them as far inboard as possible while still providing the movement you deem necessary.
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Paul
More thoughts on jacklines
I have jacklines with a caribiner (snaphook) on one end. I found a nice spot on the bow rollers of my 336 to hook them to. I attach the other end to the stern cleat. The new jacklines from West Marine just have a loop sewn in the end and no caribiner, that would let you attach them to the bow cleat as the others have suggested--a better arrangement in my view. Not only that, they are $30 cheaper without the caribiner. Famous sailor/author and fellow Connecticutian John Rousemaniere suggests, in an article on Sailnet.com, to wet the jacklines before attaching them to your boat. When they dry, they become even tighter. Haven't tried it myself. I am at odds about how far astern to attach the lines. I know that conventional wisdom says don't let yourself get too far aft if you fall off, but there's a swim platform at the back of my boat. In cold water, that's probably the only place where I would be strong enough to get myself back aboard. My boat has very high freeboard.
I have jacklines with a caribiner (snaphook) on one end. I found a nice spot on the bow rollers of my 336 to hook them to. I attach the other end to the stern cleat. The new jacklines from West Marine just have a loop sewn in the end and no caribiner, that would let you attach them to the bow cleat as the others have suggested--a better arrangement in my view. Not only that, they are $30 cheaper without the caribiner. Famous sailor/author and fellow Connecticutian John Rousemaniere suggests, in an article on Sailnet.com, to wet the jacklines before attaching them to your boat. When they dry, they become even tighter. Haven't tried it myself. I am at odds about how far astern to attach the lines. I know that conventional wisdom says don't let yourself get too far aft if you fall off, but there's a swim platform at the back of my boat. In cold water, that's probably the only place where I would be strong enough to get myself back aboard. My boat has very high freeboard.
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Marc
jacklines
I recently sailed my boat from Texas to Miami. For this trip, I rigged jacklines with a single 3/8 line. I tied it through a stern cleat (bowline), led it forward crossing in front of the mast to the opposite bow cleat. I then crossed to the other bow cleat, (crossing in front of the mast) and led it back to the other stern cleat. Lots of folks say use webbing, I felt since I only use jacklines once or twice a year, I can live with a line. When I went forward using the line, I was usually on my butt or all fours, so the line rolling under my feet was not a problem. Good luck, go Sailing, Marc ~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~~ __/) ~~ ~ ~~~ ~ ~~
I recently sailed my boat from Texas to Miami. For this trip, I rigged jacklines with a single 3/8 line. I tied it through a stern cleat (bowline), led it forward crossing in front of the mast to the opposite bow cleat. I then crossed to the other bow cleat, (crossing in front of the mast) and led it back to the other stern cleat. Lots of folks say use webbing, I felt since I only use jacklines once or twice a year, I can live with a line. When I went forward using the line, I was usually on my butt or all fours, so the line rolling under my feet was not a problem. Good luck, go Sailing, Marc ~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~~ __/) ~~ ~ ~~~ ~ ~~
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Garry
Jacklines
Although there is an almost universal recommendation for taught jacklines, it is not a great idea. When a force comes on the center of a taught jackline, the forces at either end are very high. The more the jackline sags, the lower these forces. If you have ever "sweated up" a halyard by pulling perpendicular to the line to increase your pulling force you understand the effect I am describing. The forces on the end of a taught, especially a taught wire or high modulus line may be sufficient to pull your attachment point out of the deck. It is better to leave the jacklines a little looser and use a shorter tether. That way the jackline will sag a bit and the forces on the attachment points will be a lot lower. There has recently been a post here recommending polyester webbing for jacklines instead of nylon webbing. This compounds the problem of high forces on the attachments by increasing the forces on your body! The stretch of nylon will ease the shock of coming up taught on the jackline and you will be much less likely to suffer injury as a result. Ribs have been broken by falls stopped by rigid retaining harnesses and tethers. This is why mountain climbers use stretchy nylon line to safeguard there climbers in the event of a fall. The same is true of John Rousmaniere's advice to put them on wet so they'll be taught when dry. Sorry but that's a similarly bad idea. Slack Jacklines and short tethers may look a little sloppier than nice taught jacklines and six foot tethers but they are, in fact, safer.
Although there is an almost universal recommendation for taught jacklines, it is not a great idea. When a force comes on the center of a taught jackline, the forces at either end are very high. The more the jackline sags, the lower these forces. If you have ever "sweated up" a halyard by pulling perpendicular to the line to increase your pulling force you understand the effect I am describing. The forces on the end of a taught, especially a taught wire or high modulus line may be sufficient to pull your attachment point out of the deck. It is better to leave the jacklines a little looser and use a shorter tether. That way the jackline will sag a bit and the forces on the attachment points will be a lot lower. There has recently been a post here recommending polyester webbing for jacklines instead of nylon webbing. This compounds the problem of high forces on the attachments by increasing the forces on your body! The stretch of nylon will ease the shock of coming up taught on the jackline and you will be much less likely to suffer injury as a result. Ribs have been broken by falls stopped by rigid retaining harnesses and tethers. This is why mountain climbers use stretchy nylon line to safeguard there climbers in the event of a fall. The same is true of John Rousmaniere's advice to put them on wet so they'll be taught when dry. Sorry but that's a similarly bad idea. Slack Jacklines and short tethers may look a little sloppier than nice taught jacklines and six foot tethers but they are, in fact, safer.
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Tom
Garry, I understand what you are saying, but I'm
not sure I agree. In fact after the Sydney Hobart race disaster, almost universally, they came to the conclusion that stretchy jacklines were in fact more dangerous. With stretchy lines it would be easier for someone to go over the sides and be dragged (drowned) behind the boat. Easy Quick release carbiners are recommended. But the BEST design would be to have your jackline towards the center of the boat, so if you fall you are still "in the boat". I know this is not practical for most boats without major work, so I suggest everyone hooks on to the high side of the boat so if you did lose your footing at least you will fall "down" and still end up in the boat. And your "jackpoint" is inadeqaute if it is sufficient to pull your attachment point out of the deck. Put in one that was specifically designed as a strong point and that wouldn't happen.
not sure I agree. In fact after the Sydney Hobart race disaster, almost universally, they came to the conclusion that stretchy jacklines were in fact more dangerous. With stretchy lines it would be easier for someone to go over the sides and be dragged (drowned) behind the boat. Easy Quick release carbiners are recommended. But the BEST design would be to have your jackline towards the center of the boat, so if you fall you are still "in the boat". I know this is not practical for most boats without major work, so I suggest everyone hooks on to the high side of the boat so if you did lose your footing at least you will fall "down" and still end up in the boat. And your "jackpoint" is inadeqaute if it is sufficient to pull your attachment point out of the deck. Put in one that was specifically designed as a strong point and that wouldn't happen.
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Ed Schenck
Tom is right(I think).
Tight jacklines and a tight safety line make sense. If you are clipped on to the high side and travel fore/aft on the low side there will never be the force of the jackline having to "catch" a six or eight foot fall. And you can put a big "stopper" knot anywhere in the line so that you cannot slide too far forward or aft. Does not matter then where it is secured.
Tight jacklines and a tight safety line make sense. If you are clipped on to the high side and travel fore/aft on the low side there will never be the force of the jackline having to "catch" a six or eight foot fall. And you can put a big "stopper" knot anywhere in the line so that you cannot slide too far forward or aft. Does not matter then where it is secured.
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George B.
Tighter is Safer
A couple years ago there was a tragic death in the Double Handed Farallone Race when a crew was swept overboard while being tethered. As I recall, the jackline was attached to the stern mooring cleat and the victim had a six foot tether which put him behind the boat. His crewmate was unable to help, as he too, was struggling to get back on board. One of the things that came out of the analysis was that the gear should keep you on top of, or as close to the boat as possible. Being dragged behind the boat was the worst situation. You want the jackline to lay flat and taught along the deck so you won't trip on it. In a fall, you don't want the jackline to loop over the lifelines (what happened in the Farallone Race). I would not use rope as it can easily roll under your feet and could be confused with other rigging in the heat of the moment. I would replace my jacklines with specta webbing if I could afford it. Mooring cleats should be sufficiently backed up to handle the point loads, if not, add backing plates. Frankly, my biggest worry is slipping out of the harness followed by hitting something hard in a fall. I've never considered cracked ribs due to too taught safety gear to be an issue. I can tell you from first hand experience that being double tethered while steering works well as I have been knocked off my feet while driving and this set up keeps you behind the wheel pretty effectively. My only complaint is that it limits the helmsman's movement and makes it difficult to assist in trimming. I generally use a single six foot tether so I can reach the mast and I don't have to deal with the second tether flogging around me. A helpful tip: As most safety gear is blue, use red sail ties. I almost tied a crewmember to the boom, thinking her tether was the other end of a sail tie.
A couple years ago there was a tragic death in the Double Handed Farallone Race when a crew was swept overboard while being tethered. As I recall, the jackline was attached to the stern mooring cleat and the victim had a six foot tether which put him behind the boat. His crewmate was unable to help, as he too, was struggling to get back on board. One of the things that came out of the analysis was that the gear should keep you on top of, or as close to the boat as possible. Being dragged behind the boat was the worst situation. You want the jackline to lay flat and taught along the deck so you won't trip on it. In a fall, you don't want the jackline to loop over the lifelines (what happened in the Farallone Race). I would not use rope as it can easily roll under your feet and could be confused with other rigging in the heat of the moment. I would replace my jacklines with specta webbing if I could afford it. Mooring cleats should be sufficiently backed up to handle the point loads, if not, add backing plates. Frankly, my biggest worry is slipping out of the harness followed by hitting something hard in a fall. I've never considered cracked ribs due to too taught safety gear to be an issue. I can tell you from first hand experience that being double tethered while steering works well as I have been knocked off my feet while driving and this set up keeps you behind the wheel pretty effectively. My only complaint is that it limits the helmsman's movement and makes it difficult to assist in trimming. I generally use a single six foot tether so I can reach the mast and I don't have to deal with the second tether flogging around me. A helpful tip: As most safety gear is blue, use red sail ties. I almost tied a crewmember to the boom, thinking her tether was the other end of a sail tie.
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Garry
Close reading
Reading my post closely you will note I recommended looser jacklines and SHORT tethers. The results are the same with a lot less stress on the anchors. Of course 6 foot tethers and jacklines that go all the way to the stern will result in the problems noted but a little slack in the jacklines with a 3 foot tether and you will be just as safe, just as mobile and a lot less likely to strain either the tether or the attachments. Sure big backing plates and heavy fittings are good but doing what you can to reduce serious loads on jacklines and sailors is a good thing too.
Reading my post closely you will note I recommended looser jacklines and SHORT tethers. The results are the same with a lot less stress on the anchors. Of course 6 foot tethers and jacklines that go all the way to the stern will result in the problems noted but a little slack in the jacklines with a 3 foot tether and you will be just as safe, just as mobile and a lot less likely to strain either the tether or the attachments. Sure big backing plates and heavy fittings are good but doing what you can to reduce serious loads on jacklines and sailors is a good thing too.
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Colin C.
jackstays..loose or tight?
Gary is right to say that tight jackstays come under greater load in a fall.A recent article in PBO magazine in UK suggests tight jackstays may have to endure up to 3x the load compared to slack jackstays. There example shows a 210lb man falling and putting a load of over 2,200lbs on tight jackstays compared to about 850lbs for the same person tethered to loose jackstays.Bearing in mind a safety factor of at least 2 this means your jackstays need to be rated at about 4,500lbs breaking strain if you are using tight jackstays. They mention another interesting idea...waist high jackstays inboard which can fold down when in port, this system prevents you going 'over the side' in the first place. Just my 2pennyworth..sorry 2c worth ;-)
Gary is right to say that tight jackstays come under greater load in a fall.A recent article in PBO magazine in UK suggests tight jackstays may have to endure up to 3x the load compared to slack jackstays. There example shows a 210lb man falling and putting a load of over 2,200lbs on tight jackstays compared to about 850lbs for the same person tethered to loose jackstays.Bearing in mind a safety factor of at least 2 this means your jackstays need to be rated at about 4,500lbs breaking strain if you are using tight jackstays. They mention another interesting idea...waist high jackstays inboard which can fold down when in port, this system prevents you going 'over the side' in the first place. Just my 2pennyworth..sorry 2c worth ;-)
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carisea
jacklines
as to the issue of tight not tight how about running the jackline from bow cleat- inboard of the shroud/chainplate and then to the stern cleat. my boat has a sugar scoop and is without doubt the easiest place to get back on the boat. Running the jackline behind the shroud would provide a mid-point restraint which would certainly reduce the amount of deflection of the jackline and maybe keep you from hitting the water. The draw back is you would have to reattach to get around the shroud to go forward
as to the issue of tight not tight how about running the jackline from bow cleat- inboard of the shroud/chainplate and then to the stern cleat. my boat has a sugar scoop and is without doubt the easiest place to get back on the boat. Running the jackline behind the shroud would provide a mid-point restraint which would certainly reduce the amount of deflection of the jackline and maybe keep you from hitting the water. The draw back is you would have to reattach to get around the shroud to go forward
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Tom
Garry, ...Ok...I follow. I guess the important
issue is to make sure that if you do fall that you make your jacklines and/or tethers short enough so that you wouldn't end up overboard.
issue is to make sure that if you do fall that you make your jacklines and/or tethers short enough so that you wouldn't end up overboard.
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George B.
Anatomy of My Fall
I didn't realize that there were these passionate of opinions concerning jacklines. I wonder if tight vs. loose is a regional thing? All the boats I've crewed on over here in Northern California tend to go from "snug" to "drum tight", but never "loose". I did not know you could buy a 3 foot tether either. Ours are 6 feet or 6 and 4 feet when combined in a double. My only experience of a tether arresting a fall happened when I was clipped into a stern mooring cleat with a 4 foot tether. I only went 2-3 feet before I hit the deck/cockpit side. The tether definitely did it's job by stopping me before I reached the pushpit. I don't think my 200 pounds generated the 2,000 pounds of force that was described earlier. Outside of the bruised hip from hitting the deck, I was fine. My harness did "ride up" a little under my armpits, but it did not hurt me. (I was still vainly trying to hang onto the wheel.) Once again, my biggest concern is slipping out of the harness, not getting bruised by .it. I think that jacklines and tethers are rated at 5,000-6,000 pounds breaking strength so there is plenty of margin in the gear. I still don't quite understand the benefits of loose jacklines and short tethers. I'm a six foot person, so a 3 foot tether would lift up a jackline to over ankle height. Won't this present a tripping hazard? Then, when I move inboard to the mast, the jackline would have to stretch to follow me. Wouldn't that be a problem for a second crewman? Can you duck under the boom or do you go all the way forward and clip yourself into the leeward line? If one crewmember (perish the thought) should go over the windward side, taking the jackline with him (what happened in the Farallone Race) how do you stay on board? I am interested in hearing some real life experiences with this set up and perhaps we've been getting it wrong these many years.
I didn't realize that there were these passionate of opinions concerning jacklines. I wonder if tight vs. loose is a regional thing? All the boats I've crewed on over here in Northern California tend to go from "snug" to "drum tight", but never "loose". I did not know you could buy a 3 foot tether either. Ours are 6 feet or 6 and 4 feet when combined in a double. My only experience of a tether arresting a fall happened when I was clipped into a stern mooring cleat with a 4 foot tether. I only went 2-3 feet before I hit the deck/cockpit side. The tether definitely did it's job by stopping me before I reached the pushpit. I don't think my 200 pounds generated the 2,000 pounds of force that was described earlier. Outside of the bruised hip from hitting the deck, I was fine. My harness did "ride up" a little under my armpits, but it did not hurt me. (I was still vainly trying to hang onto the wheel.) Once again, my biggest concern is slipping out of the harness, not getting bruised by .it. I think that jacklines and tethers are rated at 5,000-6,000 pounds breaking strength so there is plenty of margin in the gear. I still don't quite understand the benefits of loose jacklines and short tethers. I'm a six foot person, so a 3 foot tether would lift up a jackline to over ankle height. Won't this present a tripping hazard? Then, when I move inboard to the mast, the jackline would have to stretch to follow me. Wouldn't that be a problem for a second crewman? Can you duck under the boom or do you go all the way forward and clip yourself into the leeward line? If one crewmember (perish the thought) should go over the windward side, taking the jackline with him (what happened in the Farallone Race) how do you stay on board? I am interested in hearing some real life experiences with this set up and perhaps we've been getting it wrong these many years.
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Tom
Not necesarily about Jacklines but about potential
failure of a Harness when clipping onto a strong point. It can just pop open. Read the article in the link below....its a bit scary when you think about it.
failure of a Harness when clipping onto a strong point. It can just pop open. Read the article in the link below....its a bit scary when you think about it.
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Chuck Wayne
scary tethers
this article is the reason that any tether you own/buy/use should have either a gibb or a witchard safety style hook, not a std carabiner-even on a jackline, the std unit can snag deck hardware and open. I've tried, without success, to get my wichard safety hooks to open accidently, and it appears that the gibb would also be safe
this article is the reason that any tether you own/buy/use should have either a gibb or a witchard safety style hook, not a std carabiner-even on a jackline, the std unit can snag deck hardware and open. I've tried, without success, to get my wichard safety hooks to open accidently, and it appears that the gibb would also be safe
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Chuck Wayne
dual tethers
the dual tethers -3' end are usually attached to a strongpoint-near the wheel, or near the companionway, for example, so you're always attached when you move the 6' end- and most jacklines meet ORC regs, and have plenty of tensile strength to take the load
the dual tethers -3' end are usually attached to a strongpoint-near the wheel, or near the companionway, for example, so you're always attached when you move the 6' end- and most jacklines meet ORC regs, and have plenty of tensile strength to take the load
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Tom
Here is another good site from Winchard
That has recomendations on Jacklines, Harness tethers, ORC recomendations , special quick release saftey tethers, Jackline safety stopper, etc....
That has recomendations on Jacklines, Harness tethers, ORC recomendations , special quick release saftey tethers, Jackline safety stopper, etc....
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Garry
Both Loose and Tight
I have not done this yet but I think I will run my jackstays with a foot or so of slack and attach a length of shock cord near the aft end to keep them taught and flat on deck but still able to stretch. My tethers have a six foot and a three foot section both with wichard safety hooks on the outer end and a snap shackle on the harness end. On another note, my harnesses don't have a crotch strap. I have only seen one in the catalogs with a crotch strap. A strap that was attached at the rear and could come up between the legs to snap on the D rings in front would make slipping out of the harness (painfully) unlikely, especially if incapacated or unconscious. Most industrial harnesses have these as do climber's harnesses. I think I'll have them added to mine.
I have not done this yet but I think I will run my jackstays with a foot or so of slack and attach a length of shock cord near the aft end to keep them taught and flat on deck but still able to stretch. My tethers have a six foot and a three foot section both with wichard safety hooks on the outer end and a snap shackle on the harness end. On another note, my harnesses don't have a crotch strap. I have only seen one in the catalogs with a crotch strap. A strap that was attached at the rear and could come up between the legs to snap on the D rings in front would make slipping out of the harness (painfully) unlikely, especially if incapacated or unconscious. Most industrial harnesses have these as do climber's harnesses. I think I'll have them added to mine.
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