is this sail raised properly?

[newsailor72]

so I removed the stitches that held the boltropes (both luff and leech), I think they have shrunk at least 8, 10 inches and added telltales (vhs tapes) to the sails. (the black tapes show thru the sails remarkably well, btw.) Tried it out yesterday, raised the sail and did the preload thing. I raised the sail so high that the boom-to-mast angle must have been less than 90 degree (probably 85 or so.) But I noticed some crease in the tack area, is this normal ?(see pic 1 to 3).

also when I was on a close reach, my lower luff leeward and windward telltales were streaming pretty nicely but the middle windward telltale was flying up while the leeward one was streaming (see pic 4)? what is the cause and what needs to be done?

thanks.

 

[RichH]

That crease looks like the shackle on your lowest sail slug is stuck and not allowing free motion for the 'shackle ' to rotate freely --- easy to have a shackle break this way.

8-10" is a *whopping* boltrope shrinkage, are you 'sure' about this? Releasing that much tension will result in a 'flattish' luff and sail less 'curvature' shape - good for sailing in 'light' winds, tho.

A good rule of thumb way to reset the boltrope:
• sew a small dia. 'cord' to the end that youre 'cutting loose'.
• cut the sail twine binding @ one end of the luff only.
• pull the luff straight, allowing the boltrope to slide deeper into the sleeve.
• mark the boltrope vs. sleeve postion with 'very slight' tension on everything to keep everything fairly straight and in line.
• Pull the small dia. 'cord' back by 1" for each 10-11ft. of luff length.
• Resew the boltrope to the sleeve with heavy 'sailmakers twine' etc.

Pic #4 shows that your jib could use a bit more halyard tension ... note the 'curved' or scalloped shape between the bottom hank and the next higher. That scalloped shape could be the reason for why your tell tales are flying correctly.

Other. It may be the angle of the camera that took the #4 shot, etc. but mast prebend is just 3/4" forward 'bow' for a single spreader set, and 1/2" per each spreader set for a multi spreader rig. Could be that the 'curvature' I see on your mast is simply a 'camera' error as the pic shows a MASSIVE prebend.

 

[newsailor72]

Other. It may be the angle of the camera that took the #4 shot, etc. but mast prebend is just 3/4" forward 'bow' for a single spreader set, and 1/2" per each spreader set for a multi spreader rig. Could be that the 'curvature' I see on your mast is simply a 'camera' error as the pic shows a MASSIVE prebend.

I think that perceived prebend is from the shaking camera, the mast is pretty straight up. Here's another pic of the jib. Also, notice how my boom got lifted up now the boltrope is freed, seem much less than 90 degree. I simply removed the stitches but did not sew the sleeve back to the boltrope again, is this okay? will this cause too much stress on the sail?

thanks.

 

[RichH]

Ah much better, probably was a camera lens error.

The precise angle that the top of the boom makes with mast when the Mac22 mainsail is properly raised and that boltrop stretched out is ~88° (90° is close enough for government work).

For the boltrope to do its job, the boltrope should be 'attached' to the sleeve at both top and bottom of the sleeve with 'binding' ... and as per the description/method that I previously listed. If the boltrope is not so connected, the result can be a grossly and permanently distorted sail after sailing in moderate to stronger winds for long periods of time .... *permanent stretch* of the sail material. The boltrope prevents this stretch-out from happening long term, and keep the luff dimension constant during 'gusts'.

The pic attached shows not enough halyard tension on that jib .... or that you raised the jib with tension on the jibsheet .... see the 'scallops' between the hanks, should be 'straight'.

best regards

 

[Chris Patterson]

Man, Rich is THE MAN about these things, huh?
You think a vang would improve that?
(With the addition of your advice of course).

 

[RichH]

Thanks for the kind words; but, its very simple: Im not 'the man'.

Just someone who has been building and lofting his own sails for a very long time. When racing (and Im always 'racing'), Im one who looks for sail faults, shape faults, and trim faults ... and then ATTACK the other boat(s) based on these faults to take clear advantage.
I got into this 'addiction' by not being bashful and by asking 'everyone' I could.

Vang? cant see the leech shape; but, the boom does look a bit raised at the aft end ... just a guess; but, he did 'adjust' the boltrope so that could be the 'problem' you see.

 

[Chris Patterson]

Ah, It could look raised by that odd camera angle again. Wow, that one pic sure looks like a bow in the mast from that perspective.

 

[caguy]

Mine will do that if I forget to loosen the mainsheet when hoisting the main.

 

[newsailor72]

Vang? cant see the leech shape; but, the boom does look a bit raised at the aft end ... just a guess; but, he did 'adjust' the boltrope so that could be the 'problem' you see.

yeah, i think the boom is being "pulled" up. I think i pulled too much on the haylard. will it ease it next time.

thanks for the help.

 

[Joe]

also when I was on a close reach, my lower luff leeward and windward telltales were streaming pretty nicely but the middle windward telltale was flying up while the leeward one was streaming (see pic 4)? what is the cause and what needs to be done?

thanks.

The purpose of installing three sets of luff telltales vertically at approximately each quarter section is to allow you to set your headsail's twist. When you luff up, all the tales should break at the same time..... this will indicate that the leech and foot tension are equal. You can balance leech and foot by adjusting the position of the jib car or fairlead. As you become more experienced, you'll understand why this is important.... if you want to know now, I suggest the link I provided in the first thread. Essentially it is this.... if the bottom breaks before the top... move the car/fairlead back. BOTTOM-BACK... and vice versa.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you had simply purchased one of the telltale kits available for a few bucks.... this would have been explained in the instructions. In addition, it was my impression that people were suggesting the cassette recording tape for SHROUD placement as a wind indicator....rather than attaching them to your sails with electrical tape instead of installing proper colored telltales.. if I'm wrong, I apologize but the 1/4 inch tape has a tendency to fold and twist and will very rapidly need changing. So, spend the $5.00.... you'll like the colors anyway and they will last years.

Regarding your mainsail....... I read RichH's comment and it seems to verify my first impression that your sail looks grossly stretched out. Anyway... did you remove the bolt rope? Uh, Why? 'Cause it looks like the leech is holding up the boom, while the stretched out luff is letting the sail belly out. Try your outhaul and see what happens, but it might be time to have a sailmaker look at it to see if you can salvage it with a few alterations.

 

[Captn TJ]

Newsailor


The small 'wrinkle' in the main can be taken out with a cunningham. However keep in mind that the tension of the halyard and ultimately the luff of the sail affects draft or the belly of the sail. More draft is desirable in lighter winds and less in high winds.

The genoa/job is way too loose even for light winds. If you have pulled the sail all the way to the 'top' and the tack is in the right position I would question the sail - correct one for the boat.
Even a 'blown out' sail should be able to be stretched tight on the luff

 

[JoyRide28]

Is there a Topping Lift? Is it loose when the the mail is fully hoisted? It should be. If the topping lift is taught it *could* cause those lower luff wrinkles... Just a thought...

 

[caguy]

I just wonder if the outhaul needs to be tightened.

 

[mark_swart]

I have to think a little mast bend might help the air flow better with that big of a belly in the mainsail. That and outhaul tension as suggested above.
Headsail definitely needs more halyard tension.

 

[RichH]

yeah, i think the boom is being "pulled" up. I think i pulled too much on the haylard. will it ease it next time.

thanks for the help.

A perfectly 'raised' sail, with the correct amount of applied halyard tension, and a correctly sized and adjusted 'boltrope' will result in the top of the boom making an angle to the mast at ~90 degrees ... (precisely on your Mac @ 88 degrees, 90° is 'close enough').
What this 'precision' in raising will do is 'stretch' the sail so that the point of maximum draft occurs close to where the boat designer and sailmaker agreed, and the sail will be properly stretched out to its 'as designed dimensions and as designed shape' ... so that you have little ''weather helm", etc.

Heres the link on how to do and what to look for if the sail needs to be taken to a sailmaker for adjustment (or you do the adjustment if you have the expertise). http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=120970

:^))))))