Is it time to replace?

[jimmyb]

I bought my boat with what I believe to be its original main sail. (precision logo and 008 stiched on) If so that would make it about 20yrs old. It has no rips, no repairs and is very clean. It shows no signs of deterioration (thin or worn spots). When raised however, it has a bit of a belly in that the cloth is much softer and suppler than the "like new" jib the boat came with. We tension the downhaul & outhall very taught and apply plenty of downforce with the boom vang but Im afraid the sail may need to be retired. I think I recall reading that when the sails get to the point that they are bellying out like this they may be fine for lighter winds but as the conditions stregthen it will tend to heal the boat exessively. The jib on the boat is very "crisp" and stiff unlike the main. The boat has all the power it needs in lighter winds but I feel I may be having to dump wind from the main too often even with one of us on the rail when the winds get gustier. We both have no problem healing the boat but when we start stuffing the coamings in the water we depower.

So do you folks think Im in need of a replacement?
I may be way off here but if not why do loose or bellied sails make the boat heal exessively?

Thanks for any replies, :dance: jimmyb

 

[Joe11688]

I bought my boat with what I believe to be its original main sail. (precision logo and 008 stiched on) If so that would make it about 20yrs old. It has no rips, no repairs and is very clean. It shows no signs of deterioration (thin or worn spots). When raised however, it has a bit of a belly in that the cloth is much softer and suppler than the "like new" jib the boat came with. We tension the downhaul & outhall very taught and apply plenty of downforce with the boom vang but Im afraid the sail may need to be retired. I think I recall reading that when the sails get to the point that they are bellying out like this they may be fine for lighter winds but as the conditions stregthen it will tend to heal the boat exessively. The jib on the boat is very "crisp" and stiff unlike the main. The boat has all the power it needs in lighter winds but I feel I may be having to dump wind from the main too often even with one of us on the rail when the winds get gustier. We both have no problem healing the boat but when we start stuffing the coamings in the water we depower.

So do you folks think Im in need of a replacement?
I may be way off here but if not why do loose or bellied sails make the boat heal exessively?

Thanks for any replies, :dance: jimmyb

If the sail is very soft and appears to be blown out, yes, I would replace it Jim. Next year you won't have to worry about it.
Joe

 

[Joe]

Take the sail to a local sail loft and voice your concerns. If it can be recut they'll give you a quote. You might be better off just ordering a new sail or looking for a pre-owned sail in better condition. The choice is yours.

 

[John23883]

Try the original maker of the sails

Over the winter I sent my sails to Doyle and had them clean and go over the sails. I told them I was willing to buy new but they said they were fine. They cleaned them, replaced some of the sun inhibiting fabric on the jib, fixed a small tear and did some restitching. They sent them back and they're working fine. A lot less money than new!

 

[Bill Roosa]

Have you tried tightening the back stay?
This will pull material out of the sail and flatten it.

 

[jimmyb]

Have you tried tightening the back stay?
This will pull material out of the sail and flatten it.

No back stay on this little bugger.

I dont want to sound tooo ignorant but are sails made from the same materials now as 20 yrs ago. It just seems the newer jib is made of something much stiffer than the old main and seems like it may not even be the same kind of material, but I guess 20 yrs ago I was a bit stiffer myself :naughty: aaaah come on now I meant my posture folks.

God Bless, jimmyb

 

[jimmyb]

Oops. Forgot to ask any suggestions on where to look for inventories of good used sails.... Any good stashes out there?

Thanks again, jimmyb

 

[esterhazyinoz]

Having your local sail loft advise you is a good idea as mentioned above. I had my main recut on my last boat and that was good enough to to allow a few wins in my club races.
If you are a serious racer you might justify new sails but a good loft can keep your old engine going for a long time.

Cheers

 

[CalebD]

Or Minnies sail loft: http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/m1.html
they might have a sail to fit your rig for a bit less that is used.

 

[Joe]

No back stay on this little bugger.

I dont want to sound tooo ignorant but are sails made from the same materials now as 20 yrs ago. It just seems the newer jib is made of something much stiffer than the old main and seems like it may not even be the same kind of material, but I guess 20 yrs ago I was a bit stiffer myself :naughty: aaaah come on now I meant my posture folks.

God Bless, jimmyb

To answer your question..... probably yes.. dacron... and they stretch as they age. Read this article, then check a few of the links at the end of it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sail

 

[RichBone]

This time of year the sailmakers usually have discounts of 20-30% on new sails. Why bother with getting the sail recut after it has gone soft. You'll see a big difference in performance and sail trim.

Rich

 

[jimmyb]

thanks everyone,
jimmyb

 

[gwhastings]

Stuffing the coamings in the water? Am I the only one who reefs the main when the windspeed climbs above 15 kts?

 

[jimmyb]

Stuffing the coamings in the water? Am I the only one who reefs the main when the windspeed climbs above 15 kts?

no reef points on my main. thinking about adding them to or having them put on a new sail if I go that route. We are lake sailing and the gusts get heavy for this rig and the shifts are sometimes rediculous. I ALMOST never cleat the main sheet but even then I get caught a little behind the wind curve at times.

I really love those OH S^%# moments, like this weekend out sailing and trying once again to balance this little bugger hove to. With the boom to port and the wife the same the boat heads down, a blow hits the rarely cleated main and I watch as she does the 7ft dash to the top of the starboad rail . Nice job honey I tell her as Im blowing the main sheet and trying to head up with some composier . I tell ya, for her first year sailing she is the best crew a guy could have.

I guess this is all par for the course when your boat weighs in at 390lbs + crew. Oh how wonderful it would be to sit back and relax for a few minutes on a heavier vessel.

jimmy b

 

[kenn]

We have reef points, and from experience (good and bad ) we've learned to reef if it looks like the wind will be 15 kt or over.

Regarding your baggy main, I echo the calls to take it to a sailmaker. If said sailmaker says the sail is in decent condition, ask for a quote on putting in a reef point (a row of reinforced grommets), and also a grommet for a cunningham.

A cunningham can help you firm up that flabby sail by pulling out the belly.

 

[PotomacDaysailer]

I believe you are correct about extra belly causing more heeling. Mine too is blown out and it makes the boat pretty tender.

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

Potomac is right(as are others..) If your main is too baggy(my V21 has perhaps a year or two left to it's main) the boat will be tender in a blow or gusts as the sail may be slow in dumping air. A deep reef point is a good choice, but you may be able to get a deal from the sailmaker on a new one and then add the reefing later or right away if you've got deep pockets.
I just sailed my little 15 (chrysler) last week for the first time - jam cleats dont jam, furler doesnt furl too well, centerboard doesn't drop without help. BUT the main seems pretty crisp for an old boat and may be a replacement and while the wind got to about 20mph a couple of times it was easy dumping the main to maintain safety even though the centerboard didn't drop down fully yet(much harder was dodging the boom swinging accross the cockpit at nose height while wearing the Admiral's life vest) while singlehanding.

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

JimmyB,
you're right about being able to relax a bit on a heavier boat. Even with old, original main sail(mentioned earlier, hard to quickly dump wind in gusts), there's nothing like being able to heave to, or drop the sails and anchor when you feel like it and stretch out a bit. Had the Admiral out on the little 15 for the first time yesterday. While I fixed a few of the systems and the little "Mutt" sailed well, an only moderate breeze(would have barely moved the 21) afforded opportunities to relax but not much room to do it in. With bolt-rope instead of slugs, the sail fills the cockpit when dropped until you neaten it up. The Admiral decided to sit on a bench for a while while I took it out again looking for more wind and some chop for excitement("old man old-not dead").

 

[jimmyb]

oldies,
NEVER say die attitude my friend is what keeps us going. Im glad to here you got some time on yer little rig. Sounds like it was quite nice to get back to the simplicity of just a hull and sail for you. I had the opposite experience and got the opportunity to sail a Precision 18 for a breif few minutes in very low wind. I was quite suprised it was even making any headway in the near calm conditions. I could see that that boat would offer us much more range as far as sailing bigger waters and more weather. It is also less input which believe it or not concerned my wife. God Bless her she really enjoys the adrenaline rush of the little boat on those white knuckle moments. I would like to see what a Precision 165 was like. That might be the perfect compromise. My biggest concern oldies, is that we are a good 2.5 -3.5 hrs away from bigger lakes and I like to sail. Will the bigger boat get used enough? I just may be a 2 boat guy as well. I guess thats why they have 2 stall garges 'eh?

God Bless, jimmyb

Ps I hear ya about the bolt rope main. I use snap buckle ties I got from walmart camping section to quickly snap the bunched up main to keep it from blowing out the side of the boat. We also flake and snap the jib and cleat off to fore deck before sailing. If the wind is stiff we sail on the main and if the wind is moderate we unclip and raise the jib. Works out real nice. Snaps are much faster and less to foul.

 

[Joe Blizzard]

So do you folks think Im in need of a replacement?

I gave my baggy 1986 vintage sail a new lease on life by replacing the bolt rope. Flattens out nicely now.