My wife and I have been sailing for a year now, and are actively hunting for that elusive first boat. We (I) have the dreamy thoughts of distant horizons and uncharted coasts, but we (she) are also realists in that we recognize we have a lot of learning to do before we sail out of our little lake into the big waters. People I have talked to seem to be of two minds in what to look for in first boat. Some say learn on as big of a boat as you feel you can manage - then it will be longer before you have to move up. Others say start small (trailer sailor) and see if you like it without a big investment. We have narrowed our choices to the Cat 25 and Cat 30. In your opinons and from teh perspective of learning everythign (including maintenance, budgeting, and sailing) which is a better entry boat? Don't tell me the 25 is cheaper - I already know that. Tell me why its cheaper and by how much - then tell me why its a better investment...
Is a Cat 30 a little much for a first boat??
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Catalina 30
I have more space in the cabin of my 1990 Catalina 30 then my friend that has a Hunter 340. I have been sailing for a long time so the step to the Catalina 30 was a really easy one. I single-hand my Catalina 30 a lot of the time (actually when the wife is along I don't ask her to do anything). I think that the Catalina 30 is a very forgiving boat, it is a comfortable sailor, and it is safer if you get in big weather.
I have more space in the cabin of my 1990 Catalina 30 then my friend that has a Hunter 340. I have been sailing for a long time so the step to the Catalina 30 was a really easy one. I single-hand my Catalina 30 a lot of the time (actually when the wife is along I don't ask her to do anything). I think that the Catalina 30 is a very forgiving boat, it is a comfortable sailor, and it is safer if you get in big weather.
go with C30
WE started the same you are doing now...we looked long and hard for our first boat and we opted for a C25, loved the vessel the handling, the layout, it is a good boat. Our decision abuot not going bigger was dictated by our budget. We made the most out of it for 10 years and loved it, but we new we could not resist any longer, we searched for a C30 knowing that in it category it was by far the most spacious out there. We also knew she would handle like a catalina. We are on our fifth season and we are loving. Sailing the st-Lawrence River near Quebec City has it challenges and she is handling it really nicely. My recommandation to you, do it now, get the C30, you will enjoy cruising Lake Ontario, with plenty of living space and amenities that make cruisng so much fun. It is unavoidable you will end up going bigger anyway...we are looking for a C34...it is the nature of the sailing beast!!! Get the tall rig configuration. GG Emilie-Jolie C30TRBS #4708
WE started the same you are doing now...we looked long and hard for our first boat and we opted for a C25, loved the vessel the handling, the layout, it is a good boat. Our decision abuot not going bigger was dictated by our budget. We made the most out of it for 10 years and loved it, but we new we could not resist any longer, we searched for a C30 knowing that in it category it was by far the most spacious out there. We also knew she would handle like a catalina. We are on our fifth season and we are loving. Sailing the st-Lawrence River near Quebec City has it challenges and she is handling it really nicely. My recommandation to you, do it now, get the C30, you will enjoy cruising Lake Ontario, with plenty of living space and amenities that make cruisng so much fun. It is unavoidable you will end up going bigger anyway...we are looking for a C34...it is the nature of the sailing beast!!! Get the tall rig configuration. GG Emilie-Jolie C30TRBS #4708
C30
The first boat I owned was a C30, still own her, may never get rid of her ;-) Prior to that I sailed OPB's. I single-hand all the time, no problem, she handles very well, nice in heavy weather. I've sailed her in the Pacific Northwest and now here in SW Florida. You will be just fine learning on the C30. If you are into overnighting or anchoring and hanging out the C30 will be a lot more comfortable, plenty of room. One other thing to consider is if you get the C25 you may want to upsize sooner than if you got the C30 in the first place. That's not always the case, just a couple people I know experienced that. On the maintenance side, my C30 is a very simple boat, easy to work on, to figure out, and maintain, she's a 1984, Universal 25, nice and basic. If I had to vote, I would say you should go C30, especially if you want to keep it for a while, you will happier longer, IMHO. On the investment comment, of course owning a boat is a bad MONEY investment, we all know that, its not about the money for me, its a fantastic investment in my soul, happiness, enjoyment, can't imagine not having her to retreat too any time I want for a quick three hour sail or head to the Keys...priceless
The first boat I owned was a C30, still own her, may never get rid of her ;-) Prior to that I sailed OPB's. I single-hand all the time, no problem, she handles very well, nice in heavy weather. I've sailed her in the Pacific Northwest and now here in SW Florida. You will be just fine learning on the C30. If you are into overnighting or anchoring and hanging out the C30 will be a lot more comfortable, plenty of room. One other thing to consider is if you get the C25 you may want to upsize sooner than if you got the C30 in the first place. That's not always the case, just a couple people I know experienced that. On the maintenance side, my C30 is a very simple boat, easy to work on, to figure out, and maintain, she's a 1984, Universal 25, nice and basic. If I had to vote, I would say you should go C30, especially if you want to keep it for a while, you will happier longer, IMHO. On the investment comment, of course owning a boat is a bad MONEY investment, we all know that, its not about the money for me, its a fantastic investment in my soul, happiness, enjoyment, can't imagine not having her to retreat too any time I want for a quick three hour sail or head to the Keys...priceless
My 2 Cents
This is our second year sailing and we have the C25. Yes it is a great boat, roomy for its size and a good learning boat. That said, however, we are already looking for more space. The V berth in the 25 is great if you aren't over 5' tall and have only one person in it. My wife and I are constantly kicking each other when we move around in it. I am in the process of adding a queen size aerobed set up in the main cabin for the comfort. Then we can let the V berth be for single guests. In addition, the cabin roof is not as tall as I would like. I am developing a permanent stoop from moving in the cabin. We are also looking for headroom. We are already looking to move up. Our choices now are the C270 or C28 MKII from Catalina. Each of these has the headroom and an aft bed that is much more comfortable. Since we are lake sailors, a boat bigger than 28' is just not necessary right now. All in all, I would consider a larger boat if you have already been sailing for a while now.
This is our second year sailing and we have the C25. Yes it is a great boat, roomy for its size and a good learning boat. That said, however, we are already looking for more space. The V berth in the 25 is great if you aren't over 5' tall and have only one person in it. My wife and I are constantly kicking each other when we move around in it. I am in the process of adding a queen size aerobed set up in the main cabin for the comfort. Then we can let the V berth be for single guests. In addition, the cabin roof is not as tall as I would like. I am developing a permanent stoop from moving in the cabin. We are also looking for headroom. We are already looking to move up. Our choices now are the C270 or C28 MKII from Catalina. Each of these has the headroom and an aft bed that is much more comfortable. Since we are lake sailors, a boat bigger than 28' is just not necessary right now. All in all, I would consider a larger boat if you have already been sailing for a while now.
C30
When in doubt, get the larger boat, bigger is better when it comes to a new boat. Go for the C30...if you don't, you'll be moving up in a year.
When in doubt, get the larger boat, bigger is better when it comes to a new boat. Go for the C30...if you don't, you'll be moving up in a year.
Had the 25 for one year
We liked sailing so much we moved up to a 30. Kept it for about 7 years. Now own a 36. Going from a 25 to a 30 is a big difference in price because you go from an outboard to an inboard ( diesel after about 1984). Add pressure water with heater, wheel vs. tiller. You also may get 2 extra winches (self tailors if you are lucky) and autpilot. It adds up quick $$$. Figure on paying at least double what you would pay for a 25. But it all depends on the year & equipment.
We liked sailing so much we moved up to a 30. Kept it for about 7 years. Now own a 36. Going from a 25 to a 30 is a big difference in price because you go from an outboard to an inboard ( diesel after about 1984). Add pressure water with heater, wheel vs. tiller. You also may get 2 extra winches (self tailors if you are lucky) and autpilot. It adds up quick $$$. Figure on paying at least double what you would pay for a 25. But it all depends on the year & equipment.
Not an Investment
I would suggest that you take a good luck at your budget and ask your self how much you are really going to be able to use your boat. With either boat you are probably going to have some fixed cost to refurbish the boat to your standards. Its inevitable
. The Catalina 30, with its more complex systems is generally goning to cost you more to refurbish than the Catalina 25. The difference in both purchase price and refurbishment costs is money that can be used for sailing (or adding additional nice to have items). That aount depends a lot on the cndition of the boat, its previous maintenance history, how much of the work you can (or care to do your self), and what you consider essential items. Only you can really answer those questions, and you'll have to do so in the context of the vessel you are actually looking at buying. While some people are quite fortunate to be able to spend signficant amounts of time sailing, the reality is that most of us have 9 to 5 jobs 5 days a wek. That boils down to really being able to use the boat on the weekend. Since most of the time you really aren't going to get much more than 5 knots, you won't be able to sail more than 120 miles from your port of embarkation before you have to turn around and head back. The Catalina 25 gives you the option of moving your port of departure (i.e.you can trailer it to different locations), something that you won't be able to do with the Catalina 30. Further, if you don't have large sums of money tied up in the boat, you won't feel so quite so bad if you don't use her on a weekend. The headroom issue mentioned can also be greatly affected by what you really want to do. If you are sailing you are spending most of your time in the cockpit anyway, so the headroom question becomes a bit of a moot point. Since its your first boat, there is also a lot to be said for having fewer complex systems. Fewer complex systems means less things to go wrong, and things that are easier ( and cheaper to fix) if they do go wrong. My personnel preference would be to opt for the 25, and see how it goes. Once you have gained some experience with what works for you (or doesn't work for you), you will have a better idea of what things you really need for your sailing lifestyle. Based on that, you may decide that the Catalina 30 doesn't really offer what you need ( or by the same token it may offer everything you need). You could aso find that the Catalina 25 ( or its sister the Catalina 250 ) provides you everything that you really need. I
I would suggest that you take a good luck at your budget and ask your self how much you are really going to be able to use your boat. With either boat you are probably going to have some fixed cost to refurbish the boat to your standards. Its inevitable
. The Catalina 30, with its more complex systems is generally goning to cost you more to refurbish than the Catalina 25. The difference in both purchase price and refurbishment costs is money that can be used for sailing (or adding additional nice to have items). That aount depends a lot on the cndition of the boat, its previous maintenance history, how much of the work you can (or care to do your self), and what you consider essential items. Only you can really answer those questions, and you'll have to do so in the context of the vessel you are actually looking at buying. While some people are quite fortunate to be able to spend signficant amounts of time sailing, the reality is that most of us have 9 to 5 jobs 5 days a wek. That boils down to really being able to use the boat on the weekend. Since most of the time you really aren't going to get much more than 5 knots, you won't be able to sail more than 120 miles from your port of embarkation before you have to turn around and head back. The Catalina 25 gives you the option of moving your port of departure (i.e.you can trailer it to different locations), something that you won't be able to do with the Catalina 30. Further, if you don't have large sums of money tied up in the boat, you won't feel so quite so bad if you don't use her on a weekend. The headroom issue mentioned can also be greatly affected by what you really want to do. If you are sailing you are spending most of your time in the cockpit anyway, so the headroom question becomes a bit of a moot point. Since its your first boat, there is also a lot to be said for having fewer complex systems. Fewer complex systems means less things to go wrong, and things that are easier ( and cheaper to fix) if they do go wrong. My personnel preference would be to opt for the 25, and see how it goes. Once you have gained some experience with what works for you (or doesn't work for you), you will have a better idea of what things you really need for your sailing lifestyle. Based on that, you may decide that the Catalina 30 doesn't really offer what you need ( or by the same token it may offer everything you need). You could aso find that the Catalina 25 ( or its sister the Catalina 250 ) provides you everything that you really need. IThere's another option
there is another choice that you haven't considered and it's really the best of both worlds - the Catalina 27. i've owned all three - 25, 27, 30. the 27 is the roomiest 27 on the market - roomier than most other 30s. it's fast and agile. it's a great boat to learn on, to weekend on, to race on (if you're into that). it has a stand-up enclosed head, a usable galley, and, in the dinette version, a double bed. you can take it anywhere if you pick your weather right. and, you can feel confident that your investment is pretty safe as 27s are very popular.
there is another choice that you haven't considered and it's really the best of both worlds - the Catalina 27. i've owned all three - 25, 27, 30. the 27 is the roomiest 27 on the market - roomier than most other 30s. it's fast and agile. it's a great boat to learn on, to weekend on, to race on (if you're into that). it has a stand-up enclosed head, a usable galley, and, in the dinette version, a double bed. you can take it anywhere if you pick your weather right. and, you can feel confident that your investment is pretty safe as 27s are very popular.
You Know Whats Best!
When asked a question like this, I often feel that the one asking the question already knows the answer; its just convincing you to go with that decision. If you already boarded a Catalina 25 and a Catalina 30 what comes to mind first? Cost? Room? Amentities? Maintenance? Its apples and oranges between these two vessels. I know, because I owned two 25's and now have a 30. Their is no perfect entry level vessel unless your speaking Laser or Sunfish. Its just winches are larger, lines and rigging are heftier, a wheel might be in the place of a tiller, an outboard versus an inboard and so on when comparing the smaller vessel to a larger vessel. Indeed, I feel safer and more comfortable on my 30, but the reason I moved to the 30 like most others, is that I felt like a sardine in a can on the 25, we crowded the boat as a family, I hated that "stoop" in the cabin, no real privacy and it just did not fit the bill for extended overnight cruising. The 25 was a great sailor and I know many who would never gives their 25's up. So, do you like tight spaces? Do you desire a tiller and an outboard motor over a wheel and inboard? You know what you want ......its the 30!! You know why? Because if you intend on extended cruising and living aboard as you indicate you will need to learn systems (water pressure, AC/DC power, diesel work, etc), which is really a right of passage for the big boat owner as this board will attest to. The 30 has it all and is a wonderful sailor. It will be the ideal entry boat and possibly the only vessel you will ever need. And remember, we are all here standing by willing to help each other as we experience this passionate adventure we call sailing. Welcome aboard! Bob '88 Catalina 30 Breezin II
When asked a question like this, I often feel that the one asking the question already knows the answer; its just convincing you to go with that decision. If you already boarded a Catalina 25 and a Catalina 30 what comes to mind first? Cost? Room? Amentities? Maintenance? Its apples and oranges between these two vessels. I know, because I owned two 25's and now have a 30. Their is no perfect entry level vessel unless your speaking Laser or Sunfish. Its just winches are larger, lines and rigging are heftier, a wheel might be in the place of a tiller, an outboard versus an inboard and so on when comparing the smaller vessel to a larger vessel. Indeed, I feel safer and more comfortable on my 30, but the reason I moved to the 30 like most others, is that I felt like a sardine in a can on the 25, we crowded the boat as a family, I hated that "stoop" in the cabin, no real privacy and it just did not fit the bill for extended overnight cruising. The 25 was a great sailor and I know many who would never gives their 25's up. So, do you like tight spaces? Do you desire a tiller and an outboard motor over a wheel and inboard? You know what you want ......its the 30!! You know why? Because if you intend on extended cruising and living aboard as you indicate you will need to learn systems (water pressure, AC/DC power, diesel work, etc), which is really a right of passage for the big boat owner as this board will attest to. The 30 has it all and is a wonderful sailor. It will be the ideal entry boat and possibly the only vessel you will ever need. And remember, we are all here standing by willing to help each other as we experience this passionate adventure we call sailing. Welcome aboard! Bob '88 Catalina 30 Breezin II
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