Irons

[Don Guillette]

Mates: It seems like when I answer a question the discussion stops so I'm going to try another tack.In Long Beach, Ca harbor there is a norrow section between Long Beach and LA harbor. I really don't like to sail there because of all the commercial traffic. A number of years ago I was in that area in light wind. I was about 200 yds off the land and rocks and decided to tack. Unfortunately, I did not have enough speed to make the tack and the wind decrease so I ended up in irons.Lots of folks get stuck in irons - even America Cup boats. I also see it frequently with races at the starting line. How they get out of irons is another matter.There are 3 things that I could have done to get out of irons. STARTING THE ENGINE IS NOT ONE OF THEM. All though that certainly is an option, remember we bought sail boats to sail them and if possable you should know how to sail out of this situation or any situation you get yourself into. What 3 methods could I have used?

 

[Ross]

Back the main, and steer backwards

back the jib and let the bow fall off and if there be a third it is not in my sail bag.

 

[Bruce]

the third might be...

The third method might be "sculling"(I think it's called that), rapidly oscillating the rudder port and starboard several times until the boat moves enough in one direction to start to fill the sails. I used it many times on my little sunfish-sized Snark, but only occasionally on my 17' O'day. I believe it might be illegal in a race, however...

 

[Ross]

The other method that I use to

avoid irons is wearing ship, In this method in light air I fall off the wind and gibe around onto the other tack. I loose a little ground but not control.

 

[Richard4728]

Main to one side tiller to the other...

....once your 90 degrees to the wind release the main, tiller to centerline then sheet the main. Don't attempt to tack until you have enough boat speed. Sculling is acceptable (IMHO)in tight spaces, but not in racing:(from US Sailing)Rule 42.2 - Prohibited ActionsWithout limiting the application of rule 42.1, these actions are prohibited:pumping: repeated fanning of any sail either by pulling in and releasing the sail or by vertical or athwartships body movement; rocking: repeated rolling of the boat, induced by(1) body movement,(2) repeated adjustment of the sails or centreboard, or(3) steering; ooching: sudden forward body movement, stopped abruptly; sculling: repeated movement of the helm that is either forceful or that propels the boat forward or prevents her from moving astern; repeated tacks or gybes unrelated to changes in the wind or to tactical considerations. Let me reemphasize: if you do any of these above-listed actions, you have broken rule 42.2. It does not matter whether the action actually propelled the boat, or even if it was capable of propelling the boat! Therefore, it applies to boats of all sizes. Note that class rules (but not sailing instructions!) can change rule 42, including some of the prohibitions in rule 42.2 (see rule 86.1(c), Changes to the Racing Rules).

 

[OldCat]

How Would You Scull . . .

How would you scull a larger boat with a wheel? I think it would be impossible to move the wheel fast enough to matter.Backing the headsail seems easiest to me. Backing the main will work as long as the boat is not too big or awkward.As Don sailed a Catalina 30 that probably had a wheel - I am stumped as to the third approach that might have worked for him.Iron genny excepted, of course . Almost anything works on the small stuff that I usually sail - including paddling.

 

[Bruce]

It's true, sculling on a larger boat could be

...ineffective. Remember, I only rarely used it on my 17' and haven't yet on my 21' boat. Both are with tillers, though and are only limited in this action by muscle power. So then.. what is the 3rd method(paddling seems out of the question with a larger boat)?

 

[Franklin]

Lunch hook

One can always go to the bow and throw the lunch hook to port or starboard and pull the bow around if your in shallow water. In my old 21' drawboard, I once used the anchor to move the boat 1/4 of a mile to shore when the wind died and I ran out of fuel and it was getting dark.

 

[Don Guillette]

2 out of 3

Well, that was fast. We've got 2 out of 3 - ALMOST but a few things were left out. Backing the jib is the most common but it is slow. Backing the main only is also slow.In my case, I did not have time to fool around. I needed to get out of the situation I put myself in as fast as possable. Fortunately, I had an extra hand on board so the fastest way to get out of irons is back the MAIN AND JIB at the same time, which is what I did. I assume most beginners know what "backing the main or jib" means. If there are any questions about those term just sound off because you guys are what this forum is all about.If you elect to to "back the main" there is one additionally thing you must do and that is you have to steer the boat in reverse. Turn the rudder in the opposite direction you want the stern to go. In short order the wind will come over the side of the boat and you'll start to move forward as you trim in the main but be careful here as to the amount you trim in. If you trim in too much, you'll be back in irons.Everyone who owns a sail boat should practice this manoever so it becomes second nature. Depending on boat engine should be your last resort. If a mate can sail his way out of a situation then he should do so. I can think of very few situations where you can't sail your way out of a problem. Why waste time starting the engine - suppose it doesn't start. Now you've lost time and your in worse shape because your back to square one and that is hardly the time to try to figure out what to do.Soooo, we've got 2 ways to get out of irons but there is a 3rd way and it does not involve the engine.

 

[Ross]

Don, Since the wind is dead ahead

I suppose that with a crew available the jib could be backed to port and the main to starboard and the boat would spin like a wind mill. Since you only need sixty degrees or so that might be quickest. I have never tried it but I might in light air this summer.

 

[halford]

move crew outboard to one side

move crew outboard using gravity to help shape either/both main or jib enough to enduce movement of air across the sails allowing the boat to move forward. Head off to gain enough speed to allow a gybe. Otherwise try to tack again.

 

[Tom Colley]

Back the sails

I am new; what is backing the sails, the main, etc and the best way...main first or jib. I have made the boat go backward.Tom C

 

[Ross]

Tom, the term in irons refers to the

condition of having started a tack and not having enough boat speed to pass the wind. the boat stalls bow to the wind, the sails won't fill, and you are stuck. So you grab one of the sails and pull it against the wind and that causes the boat to do something instead of just sitting there and doing nothing. as soon as the boat is no longer bows to the wind you can sail again. Pulling the sail into the wind is called backing the sail.

 

[Tom S]

I wonder if the term "In Irons" came from

the act of putting someone in shackles and irons and keeping them from going anywhereIt makes so much sense thats gotta be where it came from.ps. One way I use to get out of irons is to physicaly move the jib to the other side of the boat (manual labor) turn the rudder that way and hope that sooner or later you will spin like a top and fall off enough to catch some wind to get some -- takes some time though -- if you're in a race then you just lost

 

[Bob]

Don, you said

"...turn the rudder in the opposite direction you want the stern to go." I think you want the rudder angling in the same direction you want the stern to go - or am I missing something here?

 

[Don Guillette]

Define "In Irons"

Tom S: Your right. The term came from the old sailing days. When the war ships found themselves head to wind they could not maneuver to fire or escape from the foe. The term refers to being in "leg irons or handcuffs" because the boat can't move and the enemy will merely circle around and blast away at them.Gary Jobson tells the story about sailing the America Cup boat Defender during a testing session off Newport, RI. He claims it is almost impossable to get a 12 meter boat out of irons while sailing with the mainsail only. On this day they were taking a lunch break and sailing with main only and got into irons. Courageous saw their predicament and continually circled Defender while throwing food at them, which made a mess of Defenders deck. Defender was helpless until they hoisted their jib and got the boat under way.

 

[Don Guillette]

Back the sails

Tom Colley: Instead of defining it I'll describe it. You've probably seen a backwinded jib a number of times when you tack the boat. A lot of sailors let go the jib way to early in a tack. The results is the sail and sheet flop all over the place and it looks to sailors around as the mess it is. What a sailor should do is hold the sheet until the boat comes head to wind and the jib flips over to the other side. Continue to hold the sheet a bit longer and let the bow be pushed over by the jib. For that short period of time before you release the sheet, the jib is BACKWINDED.Which system you use, backwinding the jib only or backwinding the main and jib together depends on how much time you have. I my case I did not have any time so I had to use the faster method of main and jib.

 

[Rick Macdonald]

Which way does the tiller go

It seems we have a bit of a conflict or confusion as to which way to move the tiller (handle, not rudder) when backwinding the main to get out of irons.When this was discussed last year I found that I had been doing it wrong. I recall testing it the right way and it made a big difference. Problem is, of course, that after 7 months of winter cabin fever I've forgotten which way that was and even what I was doing wrong!Forced to guess I think the recommendation was that the boom and main were both moved to the same side. I remember thinking that was good fortune since it's easiest to do: just sit on the port side and pull both the boom and tiller towards you. Moving them opposite directions would involve an arm and a leg (or a tiller lock, etc).While sitting here it also makes sense because pushing the boom to port should initially cause a moment to spin the boat counter-clockwise while pushing it backwards. Moving the tiller to port points the rudder to starboard which is what you want to match the turning moment the main is giving you, and help swing the stern to starboard.In fact, with enough room, wind and time and the right size boat (smallish), I've been able to just leave the sails luffing with the rudder centered until I'm moving straight back, _then_ move the rudder either way to turn the boat. When there's enough wind to do this, you don't often get stuck in irons in the first place....RickM...

 

[OldCat]

Back the Sails

Make it simple - backwinded is a sail sheeted or pulled on in the wrong side - opposite of where it would be if sailing normally.

 

[Ross]

Don, The other term used

to discribe this condition is "in stays". Where did that come from?