Shibumi was hauled yesterday for her annual bottom cleaning and paint job, zincs, etc. Overall things looked very good. The log we hit up in Nanaimo did no apparent damage to the gel coat. The only problem is a continuing nuisance amount of rust on the keel. For the last three years we've been applying a rust-stop primer before putting on the anti-fouling paint, and it seems to be keeping things reasonably under control. Anyone have any suggestions for doing in the rust totally? BTW I found the following in a Hunter ad in this month's Cruising World: "At Hunter Marine only real lead keels are attached with stainless steel keelbolts. This is obviously more expensive than iron keels and mild steel bolts, but when it comes to performance, safety, and maintenance, it's the only way to go." I wish they had felt that way in 1992. Gary Wyngarden S/V Shibumi H335
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John K Kudera
Rusty
Due to the nature of the Iron keel, I do as you have done, clean and apply a good undercoat, Seems to me that I am gaining on it as this past winter the rusty areas seemed less than before. I have been using the Rustlok 6980 by Pettit. Best of luck!
Due to the nature of the Iron keel, I do as you have done, clean and apply a good undercoat, Seems to me that I am gaining on it as this past winter the rusty areas seemed less than before. I have been using the Rustlok 6980 by Pettit. Best of luck!
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Ken Sturgill
Rust for me too!
Gary, I have the very same problem, I was told to sand blast the whole keel recoat in epoxy (westsystem) and repaint. I asked if they would back it, the boat yard said "no". So I wire wheeled it and painted with epoxy paint. I'll wire wheel next time and use westsystem to fill in the gaps and hope that in the coming years it'll go away. Good luck!
Gary, I have the very same problem, I was told to sand blast the whole keel recoat in epoxy (westsystem) and repaint. I asked if they would back it, the boat yard said "no". So I wire wheeled it and painted with epoxy paint. I'll wire wheel next time and use westsystem to fill in the gaps and hope that in the coming years it'll go away. Good luck!
Follow the Interlux road
Intelux has developed an effective procedure for iron keels. Check the forum archives under H23 keel rust by Jon Bastien of Key West for a first hand description. I have a similar problem with my H23 but on my limited budget I can only chip and paint rather than do the whole thing in one shot. Besides, I just put my boat back in the water after 8 months of blister repair and that was long enough. Peter H23 "Raven"
Intelux has developed an effective procedure for iron keels. Check the forum archives under H23 keel rust by Jon Bastien of Key West for a first hand description. I have a similar problem with my H23 but on my limited budget I can only chip and paint rather than do the whole thing in one shot. Besides, I just put my boat back in the water after 8 months of blister repair and that was long enough. Peter H23 "Raven"
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Frank Walker
Real Epoxy
Gary, I have an 88 30 that three years ago we completely blasted (keel only) and primed with an industrial epoxy that was produced by Devoe. This was on recommendation of the boat yard. I had already purchased the International system and so applied it over the Devoe epoxy. Now three years later it is time for a yard visit. When I look at the keel and recall the encounters with the bottom and other objects, I am convinced that the Devoe is indeed a better product. The only thing that I would do differently is put on 4 coats of the Devoe rather than mess with the International paint. The keel is in good shape except where it has been abused. Bottom paint gone, International epoxy gone, Devoe still in tact with a few barnicales. When I blasted the keel we found a number of casting imperfections. These were filled with thickened West epoxy after the Devoe epoxy. Good Luck Frank
Gary, I have an 88 30 that three years ago we completely blasted (keel only) and primed with an industrial epoxy that was produced by Devoe. This was on recommendation of the boat yard. I had already purchased the International system and so applied it over the Devoe epoxy. Now three years later it is time for a yard visit. When I look at the keel and recall the encounters with the bottom and other objects, I am convinced that the Devoe is indeed a better product. The only thing that I would do differently is put on 4 coats of the Devoe rather than mess with the International paint. The keel is in good shape except where it has been abused. Bottom paint gone, International epoxy gone, Devoe still in tact with a few barnicales. When I blasted the keel we found a number of casting imperfections. These were filled with thickened West epoxy after the Devoe epoxy. Good Luck Frank
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Barry
Keel Rust (Rust Never Sleeps)
Based on eight years experience I can tell you what doesn't work. (in a fresh water New England lake) Power grind the keel with a wire brush and coat with 3-4 layers of VC Tar - ineffective, rust returns. Power gring with a wire wheel and paint with Petit Rustlok - small rust spots back the following year. Current status: I did a complete sandblast of the iron and coated immediately with Interlux self etching primer. Coated the entire keel with West expoxy, a layer of light fiberglass cloth and more expoxy. After filling and faring I coated the keel with Interlux 2000 and bottom paint. The jury's still out. It was launched a week ago. If it rusts again it's going to stay rusty or be the next owner's problem. Barry
Based on eight years experience I can tell you what doesn't work. (in a fresh water New England lake) Power grind the keel with a wire brush and coat with 3-4 layers of VC Tar - ineffective, rust returns. Power gring with a wire wheel and paint with Petit Rustlok - small rust spots back the following year. Current status: I did a complete sandblast of the iron and coated immediately with Interlux self etching primer. Coated the entire keel with West expoxy, a layer of light fiberglass cloth and more expoxy. After filling and faring I coated the keel with Interlux 2000 and bottom paint. The jury's still out. It was launched a week ago. If it rusts again it's going to stay rusty or be the next owner's problem. Barry
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Jim Maroldo
H23 rust...again!
Gary, I've read with interest the previous posts, and I can't say that I agree with the epoxy treatment. As has been mentioned, check out the archives for TONS of info on this subject. I have done the complete Interlux treatrment on our Lil' Wass Ett, and it's fine so far (12 months). The trick is to get ALL of the rust out of the iron. This cannot be done reliably with sandpaper due to the natural grain of the iron. Grinding would probably work, but it'll take forever. The trick is to get the surface REALLY CLEAN, and get it primed within as short a time as possible. The rust begins to form again immediately (although you can't actually see it for 12-24 hours). Using the complete -don't skimp here!- Interlux system will give you the best rust protection you can get. I suppose other brands might work as well, but I have no experience with them. By the way, be sure to get the bottom of the keel as well! That's not to easy, because the keel sits on the trailer! Good luck!
Gary, I've read with interest the previous posts, and I can't say that I agree with the epoxy treatment. As has been mentioned, check out the archives for TONS of info on this subject. I have done the complete Interlux treatrment on our Lil' Wass Ett, and it's fine so far (12 months). The trick is to get ALL of the rust out of the iron. This cannot be done reliably with sandpaper due to the natural grain of the iron. Grinding would probably work, but it'll take forever. The trick is to get the surface REALLY CLEAN, and get it primed within as short a time as possible. The rust begins to form again immediately (although you can't actually see it for 12-24 hours). Using the complete -don't skimp here!- Interlux system will give you the best rust protection you can get. I suppose other brands might work as well, but I have no experience with them. By the way, be sure to get the bottom of the keel as well! That's not to easy, because the keel sits on the trailer! Good luck!
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Peter Brennan
Never, ever again
We once owned a Dawson 26 with an iron swing keel. The keel was a mess. We ground off all the paint and got all shiny, then accidentally discovered that we were not shining up the iron itself but the thick coat of scale that covered it. They only way to get this stuff off was with a chipping hammer. My wife and I spent endless days under the boat banging away with chipping hammers until the scale was all gone. Then we wire brushed the resultant moonscape to bright metal. Then we primed it (the stuff was on my hands for weeks). Then we wfilled the craters with epoxy and finsihed the job witgh the Interlux system with antifouling on tiop of that. We also mounted a couple of large disc zincs by drilling a hole completely through the keel. This did a pretty good job but every season there were patches of corrosion breaking through, either because of mechanical damage or we missed a spot. When we bought our next boat (O'Day 37) we learned to our dismay that some of these had been fitted with iron keels. A condition of the survey and our offer were that the keel absolutely positively had to be lead or no deal! It is. Thiose of you with iron keels have my deepest sympathy. For me, never, ever again. Life is too short.
We once owned a Dawson 26 with an iron swing keel. The keel was a mess. We ground off all the paint and got all shiny, then accidentally discovered that we were not shining up the iron itself but the thick coat of scale that covered it. They only way to get this stuff off was with a chipping hammer. My wife and I spent endless days under the boat banging away with chipping hammers until the scale was all gone. Then we wire brushed the resultant moonscape to bright metal. Then we primed it (the stuff was on my hands for weeks). Then we wfilled the craters with epoxy and finsihed the job witgh the Interlux system with antifouling on tiop of that. We also mounted a couple of large disc zincs by drilling a hole completely through the keel. This did a pretty good job but every season there were patches of corrosion breaking through, either because of mechanical damage or we missed a spot. When we bought our next boat (O'Day 37) we learned to our dismay that some of these had been fitted with iron keels. A condition of the survey and our offer were that the keel absolutely positively had to be lead or no deal! It is. Thiose of you with iron keels have my deepest sympathy. For me, never, ever again. Life is too short.
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Jim Maroldo
This is the last time!
I say AMEN to that Peter! As I said, ours is OK for now, but the next one will be lead for sure! Happy sailing! Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
I say AMEN to that Peter! As I said, ours is OK for now, but the next one will be lead for sure! Happy sailing! Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
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Vic
On my rhodes 19 #930 .. i chipped at least 1/4 in.
of scale, wire brushed, washed with acetone ... embedded light weight glass mat in west epoxy ... 8 years later still looks solid. Also while I was at it i fiberglassed the keel right into the hull using three overlapping layers of mat to blend the keel into the hull. I lot of work though and I didn't even get to fairing.. Vic
of scale, wire brushed, washed with acetone ... embedded light weight glass mat in west epoxy ... 8 years later still looks solid. Also while I was at it i fiberglassed the keel right into the hull using three overlapping layers of mat to blend the keel into the hull. I lot of work though and I didn't even get to fairing.. Vic
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Tom Boles
What is the problem with rust on a keel?
I an nearly through the process of buying a Hunter Vision 32, which "features" an iron keel. I had the boat hauled last week, & I got up close and personal with the keel while it was in the sling. Yes, there is *some* rust on the keel, but only at the leading edge. To slip back in younger speech patterns-'What is the big deal?" it's not like the keel is thin, rust anywhere on the surface will not greatly effect the function of the keel (I agree, iron oxide is a bit less dense than bulk iron), and unless we are talking about problems with the keel bolts, I just don't see the problem. Sure, it may not look terrific, but I bet the surface of the keel is pretty non-fair anyway and unless you are racing one design, what harm does a little rust do? There is an article in Wired this month about problems with supertankers rusting "faster" than normal, and the suggestion there was that steel rusts in saltwater about 0.1 mm/year. That's right about 0.004" inches/year, or 4 thousandths of an inch per year. Cast Iron maybe more, but even so, 4 thou a year in NOT going to hurt much in a non-structural part, like a keel. Any structural/materials guys out there to confirm/decry? Bottom line: rust may not be pretty, but spending 10s of hours and hundreds of dollars on a keel job, when any nick in the coating (like from that chunk of whatever you hit in the tideline last week, or when your diver wacks the keel with his tank doing a scrub) will initiate a rust site seems like a waste of personal time & money. But, if you hate a rusted keel and like doing bottoms more than sailing, have fun!
I an nearly through the process of buying a Hunter Vision 32, which "features" an iron keel. I had the boat hauled last week, & I got up close and personal with the keel while it was in the sling. Yes, there is *some* rust on the keel, but only at the leading edge. To slip back in younger speech patterns-'What is the big deal?" it's not like the keel is thin, rust anywhere on the surface will not greatly effect the function of the keel (I agree, iron oxide is a bit less dense than bulk iron), and unless we are talking about problems with the keel bolts, I just don't see the problem. Sure, it may not look terrific, but I bet the surface of the keel is pretty non-fair anyway and unless you are racing one design, what harm does a little rust do? There is an article in Wired this month about problems with supertankers rusting "faster" than normal, and the suggestion there was that steel rusts in saltwater about 0.1 mm/year. That's right about 0.004" inches/year, or 4 thousandths of an inch per year. Cast Iron maybe more, but even so, 4 thou a year in NOT going to hurt much in a non-structural part, like a keel. Any structural/materials guys out there to confirm/decry? Bottom line: rust may not be pretty, but spending 10s of hours and hundreds of dollars on a keel job, when any nick in the coating (like from that chunk of whatever you hit in the tideline last week, or when your diver wacks the keel with his tank doing a scrub) will initiate a rust site seems like a waste of personal time & money. But, if you hate a rusted keel and like doing bottoms more than sailing, have fun!
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nautical rich
Same problem
Did not read all the replies so this might be repetative. I have the same material keel on my Kelt 7.60. When I purchased it I noticed the rust. I grinded down the rusted areas, made sure all paint was off the keel (sanded) and then primed the bad spots with same paint you did and then barrier coated the entire keel. It lasted approximately 4 years. I just did the keel again this spring. I was told that they actualy rust when exposed to air, not in the water. This could be true because it didn't show up until after it was hauled and stored. One thing I worried about is electroalysis (damned if I know how to spell it)and if a zinc is needed. However barrier coated it should not need one, I hope?
Did not read all the replies so this might be repetative. I have the same material keel on my Kelt 7.60. When I purchased it I noticed the rust. I grinded down the rusted areas, made sure all paint was off the keel (sanded) and then primed the bad spots with same paint you did and then barrier coated the entire keel. It lasted approximately 4 years. I just did the keel again this spring. I was told that they actualy rust when exposed to air, not in the water. This could be true because it didn't show up until after it was hauled and stored. One thing I worried about is electroalysis (damned if I know how to spell it)and if a zinc is needed. However barrier coated it should not need one, I hope?
Pettit treatment
Here is the way that Pettit suggests that you treat your keel. (see second page near the bottom of the document) http://www.pettitpaint.com/pdf/antifouling.pdf PS: you may also notice how they recommend preping the bottom if you do not want to sand the Gelcoat.
Here is the way that Pettit suggests that you treat your keel. (see second page near the bottom of the document) http://www.pettitpaint.com/pdf/antifouling.pdf PS: you may also notice how they recommend preping the bottom if you do not want to sand the Gelcoat.
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