I have a Beneteau 331 2000 model. I get intermittent water in my bilge. After being dry one or two weeks, it will suddenly get water in the bilge, not up to the boards, but more much than I would expect from condensation. It is under shrink wrap for the winter, not getting any snow or rainwater on the deck. The keels bolts are not leaking and the water tank is empty for the winter. I would greatly appreciate any ideas on the source of the water? Thank you.
intermittent bilge water
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M
Mike
C ouple of thoughts
I've had water get in between the hull and inner liner which caused the same problem. I'd dry it up and think it was all gone only to have to seep back into the bilge later on. It's amazing how much water can get trapped in there. The other thoughts I had were to check the water heater to make sure it's empty. Did you drain the water intake to air conditioner? Did you have the holding tank emptied? Although none of those should leak into the bilge inless someting was left open or has split due to freezing. How long was it before you noticed it? How long is it between the time you dry it and when you find it wet again? And one last thing. Did you leave any bottles of water on board that could have split open from the cold?
I've had water get in between the hull and inner liner which caused the same problem. I'd dry it up and think it was all gone only to have to seep back into the bilge later on. It's amazing how much water can get trapped in there. The other thoughts I had were to check the water heater to make sure it's empty. Did you drain the water intake to air conditioner? Did you have the holding tank emptied? Although none of those should leak into the bilge inless someting was left open or has split due to freezing. How long was it before you noticed it? How long is it between the time you dry it and when you find it wet again? And one last thing. Did you leave any bottles of water on board that could have split open from the cold?
Mike covered it
When I first bought my 281, I kept finding water in the bilge. Finally got it dried out after repeated mopping up trips. I didn't figure it out until the next spring when I filled the water tank and turned on the fresh water pump-- it would not pressure up and shut off. Water ended up in the bilge again. I finally removed my water heater completely and took it apart. The PO had not drained it completely and the tank was completely split open from freezing. Never would have found it without opening up the water heater.
When I first bought my 281, I kept finding water in the bilge. Finally got it dried out after repeated mopping up trips. I didn't figure it out until the next spring when I filled the water tank and turned on the fresh water pump-- it would not pressure up and shut off. Water ended up in the bilge again. I finally removed my water heater completely and took it apart. The PO had not drained it completely and the tank was completely split open from freezing. Never would have found it without opening up the water heater.
T
Tim
Another reason....
I had a similar problem that took me 3 seasons to find. When the system was pressurized, the pump would run every so often (really annoying when you're trying to sleep!) and the bilge would end up with water in it over time. I knew I had a leak but had a devil of a time finding it since it took a long time for the pressure to bleed down and the bilge to eventually fill. I finally gave up and isolated each water distribution line over a couple of days until I found the culprit. Turned out to be the water line from the distribution point under the hot tank (Benny 321) to the galley sink. Of course with Benny's, the only way to replace a line is to use the old one to fish the new one through under the liner. When I got the old line out, there was a large abrasion spot where there was a hairline crack right in the middle of the length of the line. It would have been under the liner "tunnel" in a spot totally concealed and where would be NO abrasion from anything. It had to have happened in production when they lowered the liner into the hull, or they simply used a piece of line that was damaged to begin with. Now the bilge is bone dry and I sleep well all night! Tim
I had a similar problem that took me 3 seasons to find. When the system was pressurized, the pump would run every so often (really annoying when you're trying to sleep!) and the bilge would end up with water in it over time. I knew I had a leak but had a devil of a time finding it since it took a long time for the pressure to bleed down and the bilge to eventually fill. I finally gave up and isolated each water distribution line over a couple of days until I found the culprit. Turned out to be the water line from the distribution point under the hot tank (Benny 321) to the galley sink. Of course with Benny's, the only way to replace a line is to use the old one to fish the new one through under the liner. When I got the old line out, there was a large abrasion spot where there was a hairline crack right in the middle of the length of the line. It would have been under the liner "tunnel" in a spot totally concealed and where would be NO abrasion from anything. It had to have happened in production when they lowered the liner into the hull, or they simply used a piece of line that was damaged to begin with. Now the bilge is bone dry and I sleep well all night! Tim
Leak between hull and inner liner
I don't have an A/C. The water heater is not split and the water does not stink like the holding tank. No water bottles either. It takes about 10 days for it to fill. It gets to about the same depth every time, never above the boards. The water does look like bay water. How does one find and fix a leak that allows water between the hull and liner? Thanks for the reply.
I don't have an A/C. The water heater is not split and the water does not stink like the holding tank. No water bottles either. It takes about 10 days for it to fill. It gets to about the same depth every time, never above the boards. The water does look like bay water. How does one find and fix a leak that allows water between the hull and liner? Thanks for the reply.
M
Mike
Are you on the hard?
Are you on the hard or still in the water? If your on land then that's a lot of water to have seep in and by now it should have stopped. that you noticed, did you have any indication of a problem prior to winterizing? Is the shrink wrap down over the sides of the hull? Are there any low spots or openings that could serve as a funnel? Look to see how the boat is sitting, how level is it? Water finds the lowest spot so try to find where's it's coming from by looking uphill. I'd pull up all the floor boards and using a flashlight check in the holes between the hull liner to see if you can tell which direction it's flowing from. Also check behind the seat backs where the chainplates are located to see if anything is dripping in from there as they can leak. Another possibility is the water is coming in through a deck fitting, hatch or mounting hardware and flowing down inside the headliner, past the hull and into the bilge. If your still in the water I'd check the speed and depth transducers and make sure the plugs are in correctly and snugged down firmly. Also check the packing gland as they can leak if there's any air in them. You'll have water under the engine if this is the case. Try burping it if there is. How about your thru hulls? Are they all closed? I've had one corrode between the thru hull and fitting that attaches to it. It was difficult to see where it had cracked. Pump out and dry the bilge the best you can then using a flashlight look for traces of water seeping in. Then try to follow the leak back to it's origination. Don't forget to check around the keel bolts too. If you find a likely source of the leak try pouring some of the "Pink" antifreeze in that area to see if makes into the bilge. The color should tell you if it did. Good luck and keep us posted.
Are you on the hard or still in the water? If your on land then that's a lot of water to have seep in and by now it should have stopped. that you noticed, did you have any indication of a problem prior to winterizing? Is the shrink wrap down over the sides of the hull? Are there any low spots or openings that could serve as a funnel? Look to see how the boat is sitting, how level is it? Water finds the lowest spot so try to find where's it's coming from by looking uphill. I'd pull up all the floor boards and using a flashlight check in the holes between the hull liner to see if you can tell which direction it's flowing from. Also check behind the seat backs where the chainplates are located to see if anything is dripping in from there as they can leak. Another possibility is the water is coming in through a deck fitting, hatch or mounting hardware and flowing down inside the headliner, past the hull and into the bilge. If your still in the water I'd check the speed and depth transducers and make sure the plugs are in correctly and snugged down firmly. Also check the packing gland as they can leak if there's any air in them. You'll have water under the engine if this is the case. Try burping it if there is. How about your thru hulls? Are they all closed? I've had one corrode between the thru hull and fitting that attaches to it. It was difficult to see where it had cracked. Pump out and dry the bilge the best you can then using a flashlight look for traces of water seeping in. Then try to follow the leak back to it's origination. Don't forget to check around the keel bolts too. If you find a likely source of the leak try pouring some of the "Pink" antifreeze in that area to see if makes into the bilge. The color should tell you if it did. Good luck and keep us posted.
where does one find the 'builder's manual
I am in the water. Yes there has been water getting in during the sailing season. That is a big reason why I had the boat shrink wrapped for the winter to see if that would stop the leaks. Can someone tell me where to obtain an "builder's manual" so I can begin to understand how sailboats are put together. I want to see how the hull, deck and inner liner are installed. The owner's manual that came with the boat does not give this kind of info.
I am in the water. Yes there has been water getting in during the sailing season. That is a big reason why I had the boat shrink wrapped for the winter to see if that would stop the leaks. Can someone tell me where to obtain an "builder's manual" so I can begin to understand how sailboats are put together. I want to see how the hull, deck and inner liner are installed. The owner's manual that came with the boat does not give this kind of info.
M
Mike
Beneteau's website
You can look on Beneteau's website and they give a pretty good explanation along with photos. They use a hull liner that does make it difficult to see all of the nooks and crannys. While this may be a nusance it does make for a solid boat. And while that may help you I would still look at some of the usual suspects. They're based on the fact you feel it's bay not rain water. Did you run hard aground at all prior to this problem? I don't mean a soft mud type grounding, I'm talking about striking something hard with the keel or hull. If so I'd check around the keel bolts for seepage. If not the speed transducer has a rubber "O" ring type seal and if it wasn't inserted correctly or tighted enough it will leak, It should be located forward of the mast. There should be two transducers, one is for depth, the other for speed. It's the one for speed that most likely would be leaking. There should be a blank plug lying along side the transducers. It's used when the boat is hauled. You pull the speed transducer to elimiante the risk of having the lift's forward strap damage the paddle. The thru hull has a seal, that while it will let in a spurt of water, will allow you to pull the transducer and insert the plug without a major flood. Both the transducer and plug have an aligment arrow on top. Make sure this is facing forward. Check where the prop shaft exits the boat. You should have a rubber bellows, possibly with a hose leading to a thru hull. This is the dripless packing gland. The hose enters the bellows through a nipple that can leak. If your having a leak in this area there will most likely be water or traces of it under the prop shaft and engine. If this is where it's leaking do not try to fix it with the boat in the water. That small hose can let in a lot of water in a short amount of time. You'll have to have her hauled to fix it without risking a major problem. Check all your thru hulls, even if they're closed. There could be an issue with the bedding material around them. Or you could have an issue with the thru hull itself. I think this is unlikely but you never know. Unless you've struck something hard enough to crack the hull I can't think of any other source of bay water. Good luck and keep us posted. I'm hopeful it's soemthing easy to fix.
You can look on Beneteau's website and they give a pretty good explanation along with photos. They use a hull liner that does make it difficult to see all of the nooks and crannys. While this may be a nusance it does make for a solid boat. And while that may help you I would still look at some of the usual suspects. They're based on the fact you feel it's bay not rain water. Did you run hard aground at all prior to this problem? I don't mean a soft mud type grounding, I'm talking about striking something hard with the keel or hull. If so I'd check around the keel bolts for seepage. If not the speed transducer has a rubber "O" ring type seal and if it wasn't inserted correctly or tighted enough it will leak, It should be located forward of the mast. There should be two transducers, one is for depth, the other for speed. It's the one for speed that most likely would be leaking. There should be a blank plug lying along side the transducers. It's used when the boat is hauled. You pull the speed transducer to elimiante the risk of having the lift's forward strap damage the paddle. The thru hull has a seal, that while it will let in a spurt of water, will allow you to pull the transducer and insert the plug without a major flood. Both the transducer and plug have an aligment arrow on top. Make sure this is facing forward. Check where the prop shaft exits the boat. You should have a rubber bellows, possibly with a hose leading to a thru hull. This is the dripless packing gland. The hose enters the bellows through a nipple that can leak. If your having a leak in this area there will most likely be water or traces of it under the prop shaft and engine. If this is where it's leaking do not try to fix it with the boat in the water. That small hose can let in a lot of water in a short amount of time. You'll have to have her hauled to fix it without risking a major problem. Check all your thru hulls, even if they're closed. There could be an issue with the bedding material around them. Or you could have an issue with the thru hull itself. I think this is unlikely but you never know. Unless you've struck something hard enough to crack the hull I can't think of any other source of bay water. Good luck and keep us posted. I'm hopeful it's soemthing easy to fix.
Quite a mystery
I think you said that the water reaches the same level (below the floor boards) every 10 days or so. If the leak is below the water line, I wouldn't think it would stop at a fixed level until the boat sank. If it is coming from a tank that is low in the boat, it would stop when the level in the tank equals the level in the bilge. But it sounds like all your tanks are empty. Maybe you should wait a little longer before you pump it out and see if it continues to rise. Also keep track of precipitation amounts between pump outs. If you get a long enough dry spell and continue to have the same problem, you are pretty much left with condensation under the shrink wrap leaking in somewhere. Unless of course the bilge water is salt water and then that sinking problem becomes a little more of a concern. Good Luck and keep us posted
I think you said that the water reaches the same level (below the floor boards) every 10 days or so. If the leak is below the water line, I wouldn't think it would stop at a fixed level until the boat sank. If it is coming from a tank that is low in the boat, it would stop when the level in the tank equals the level in the bilge. But it sounds like all your tanks are empty. Maybe you should wait a little longer before you pump it out and see if it continues to rise. Also keep track of precipitation amounts between pump outs. If you get a long enough dry spell and continue to have the same problem, you are pretty much left with condensation under the shrink wrap leaking in somewhere. Unless of course the bilge water is salt water and then that sinking problem becomes a little more of a concern. Good Luck and keep us posted
M
Mike
Water pressure
Depending on where the leak is the water stops coming in because eventually there's a balance between the water pressure on both the inside and the outside of the boat. The other and more likely reason it stops at a set level is because that's where the bilge pump kicks in and drains it.
Depending on where the leak is the water stops coming in because eventually there's a balance between the water pressure on both the inside and the outside of the boat. The other and more likely reason it stops at a set level is because that's where the bilge pump kicks in and drains it.
weekend checklist
Thanks for everyone's replies. I now have a weekend checklist when I go down to the boat. We like this boat. It sails well for cruising the bay. The bay is not very salty in Annapolis so it is hard to tell if the water is rain or bay water. I will check the nipple on the shaft. Will keep you informed.
Thanks for everyone's replies. I now have a weekend checklist when I go down to the boat. We like this boat. It sails well for cruising the bay. The bay is not very salty in Annapolis so it is hard to tell if the water is rain or bay water. I will check the nipple on the shaft. Will keep you informed.
M
Mike
Smell the water
Just a couple of tips from the top of the bay. The bay water will build quite a funky odor when allowed to sit. You may not be able to taste the salt but you can generally smell it. Also bay water will leave more of a brownish residue where it sits than fresh water will. Based on your comments I'm guessing it's bay water. Good luck and keep us posted.
Just a couple of tips from the top of the bay. The bay water will build quite a funky odor when allowed to sit. You may not be able to taste the salt but you can generally smell it. Also bay water will leave more of a brownish residue where it sits than fresh water will. Based on your comments I'm guessing it's bay water. Good luck and keep us posted.
partially agree
I hadn't thought about an automatic bilge pump (I don't have one) maintaining the water level. That's a good point. I can't quite figure a situation where a leak below the water line would stabilize inside and outside the boat. As water enters, the boat sinks lower and more water enters etc. etc. etc. Maybe putting a mark in the bilge at the stabilized water line and shutting off the pump for a while to see if water rises past the line would at least confirm a leak from the bay.
I hadn't thought about an automatic bilge pump (I don't have one) maintaining the water level. That's a good point. I can't quite figure a situation where a leak below the water line would stabilize inside and outside the boat. As water enters, the boat sinks lower and more water enters etc. etc. etc. Maybe putting a mark in the bilge at the stabilized water line and shutting off the pump for a while to see if water rises past the line would at least confirm a leak from the bay.
M
Mike
Just a trickle
Bill we're most likley talking, at most, about a trickle. Depending on where it's coming in at there can indeed be a balance of pressure. It's the same principle that allows you to open the thru hull to a sink but not flood the boat. Now if his bilge pump doesn't run he might have a very large problem. He won't know until he finds the leak. BTW I wouldn't recommend disconnecting a bilge pump while in the water. Especially if your not sure why you have a leak. Mike
Bill we're most likley talking, at most, about a trickle. Depending on where it's coming in at there can indeed be a balance of pressure. It's the same principle that allows you to open the thru hull to a sink but not flood the boat. Now if his bilge pump doesn't run he might have a very large problem. He won't know until he finds the leak. BTW I wouldn't recommend disconnecting a bilge pump while in the water. Especially if your not sure why you have a leak. Mike
But
The sink comparison only works because the sink drain is well above the level of the bay. That same thru hull would sink the boat if the hose to the sink drain was disconnected at the thru-hull. The fact that water is entering the boat somewhere below the waterline means that the outside head pressure is greater than the inside pressure and water flows from higher to lower pressure. As water enters, the boat gets heavier so it settles deeper in the water and the head pressure (depth from the water surface to the point of the leak)continues to increase, letting in more water and on and on. I also wouldn't suggest disconnecting the bilge pump and going home. I'm suggesting turning off the switch and monitoring how fast the water rises in the boat while you are there.
The sink comparison only works because the sink drain is well above the level of the bay. That same thru hull would sink the boat if the hose to the sink drain was disconnected at the thru-hull. The fact that water is entering the boat somewhere below the waterline means that the outside head pressure is greater than the inside pressure and water flows from higher to lower pressure. As water enters, the boat gets heavier so it settles deeper in the water and the head pressure (depth from the water surface to the point of the leak)continues to increase, letting in more water and on and on. I also wouldn't suggest disconnecting the bilge pump and going home. I'm suggesting turning off the switch and monitoring how fast the water rises in the boat while you are there.
M
Mike
True but........
Bill true and I agree if the hose were to split just above a thru hull she'd probably sink like a stone. Again I was thinking of a very small crack or lightly worn component that would limit the amount of outside water pressure, therefore creating just a trickle if that. Once the water rose to a certain level inside the boat it would likely exert enough back pressure to either stop or slow the incoming water. If his leak is at or near the water line even more so.
Bill true and I agree if the hose were to split just above a thru hull she'd probably sink like a stone. Again I was thinking of a very small crack or lightly worn component that would limit the amount of outside water pressure, therefore creating just a trickle if that. Once the water rose to a certain level inside the boat it would likely exert enough back pressure to either stop or slow the incoming water. If his leak is at or near the water line even more so.
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