Insurance Question

[TomVD]

Hello, I am hoping i can get some guidance here. I recently purchased a 1995 catalina and insured it through BoatUS. BoatUS requires a survey but does not mandate that the boat be pulled out of the water. I had a diver look under and he said. Everything looks good but in bad need of paint.

I recently had the boat hauled for bottom paint and where the keel attaches to the hull there is a crack. When I had the survey done there was water in the bilge. The surveyor told me that I probably need to tighten the keel bolts. The boat yard is telling me there is about 80-100 hours of fiberglass work that needs to be done in order to fix it correctly. They also showed me where an existing repair was done incorrectly and where there are cracks around the bilge. I was not aware that any repairs had been made, nor does it show up on the survey.

So my question is can I make an insurance claim? I used a surveyor that is listed on the BoatUS website and I've owned the boat less than a month.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

If I understand correctly, you did not get a complete survey but now want an insurance company to pay for that omission.

 

[windward54]

You can make the claim, but it would most likely not be accepted by the carrier. The issue was an incorrect repair, not an accident. The carrier will most likely lump this into a maintenance issue and not extend coverage. The surveyor most likely will point to his contract where thereis a limitation of liability.

 

[TomVD]

If I understand correctly, you did not get a complete survey but now want an insurance company to pay for that omission.

I did what the insurance company told me to do.

 

[Winkfish]

What does your policy cover? Read the policy and all will be revealed.

 

[Richard19068]

What would the claim be for? Was there an event that took place while you owned the boat that caused the damage? I think that is what you would have to show the insurance company.

Perhaps you have a claim against the surveyor or the diver?

 

[KD3PC]

whilst I really dislike insurance companies, in this case the fault is yours, alone....

pony up the money to have it fixed properly,

and next time you buy a boat, have a "pre-purchase" survey done by a good reputable surveyor...

Doing what the insurance company requires, does not allow blame to be placed....My guess is they will decline this "event". Insurance companies are going to do, and ask to be done, things in THEIR best interest.

YOUR surveyor is looking out for YOUR best interests, and will even argue with insurance companies on your behalf, or they have when I asked with the last two boats I bought...ie...my boat had CNG, the insurance wanted all the "propane safety" gear to be installed....surveyor explained to the underwriter that it was not needed, and he had the right education, documentation and experience to prevail.

Best of luck,

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I did what the insurance company told me to do.

Frankly, that was your mistake.

 

[kenn]

Hello, I am hoping i can get some guidance here. I recently purchased a 1995 catalina and insured it through BoatUS. BoatUS requires a survey but does not mandate that the boat be pulled out of the water. I had a diver look under and he said. Everything looks good but in bad need of paint.

Insurance companies require the survey to establish or confirm the condition (and therefore the replacement value) of the insured vessel. So, you are not insured for stuff nobody noticed, you are insured against losses that might occur due to covered incidents while you are insured.

You should try to get a few different quotes on the necessary repair, which might give you leverage on the final cost.

 

[higgs]

Go to the Catalina section of this forum with pictures of your keel. Catalinas are well known for the "Catalina Smile" which may be what you have. fixxing this may not be as involved as you have been told.

 

[foolproof]

Most insurance companies will only cover damage done, and will leave the original problem to you.

For example: If your engine fails catastrophically and you smash into the rocks, they will likely repair the rock damage minus your deductible. The engine repair will be up to you.

 

[rfrye1]

Ok folks. Insurance is not a maintenance policy. I have been in the insurance business for 30 yrs. first if you submit a claim it counts, covered or not. Some carriers will cancel or increase rates for any claim activity, covered or not. Especially within the first policy year. (I'm not sure who underwrites US Boat). Secondly, trying to get insurance companies to pay for things the policy isn't supposed to only raises the premium for the rest of us. The casualty insurance business should not be compared to our health ins industry. A hurricane can cost $100's millions in one day. Different business model.

This is a repair. Not a claim.

 

[petersea]

WOW ! That is a $9000 dollar repair bill ! ! That sounds like an awful lot but with out know the extent of damage can't say too much. Posting pictures might give a better idea of what is going on. Unfortunately for you it sounds like you had a insurance survey done and not a pre purchase survey done. There is a difference. Having the bottom inspected in the water was a bad idea. A pre purchase survey should involve pulling the boat out for a bottom inspection. Maybe and this is a big maybe you could talk to the previous owner and his insurance company for some sort of adjustment or go back to the shop who did the original repair. I don't hold out lots of hope for a good resolution in your favor unfortunately. Sounds like a tough lesson to have learned the hard way but I agree with all the others that this is not an insurance claim.

I am assuming that this is not the notorious "Catalina Smile" but some other damage. Any yard who would charge that much to repair a "smile" is just trying to take advantage of you. Post some pictures or get another repair estimate and find out what is wrong first.

P.S. Just another thought you may want to get the broker involved (assumes there was one and this is not a private sale). Not sure if he or she can help but can't hurt you. Was there a damage dis-closer by the seller ? Do you think that the repair was deliberately hidden form you ? Did you ask if there had been any repairs done in the past ?? How did the seller and broker represent the condition ?? Again not sure how far you can go with this but can't hurt you to ask. If you plan on going somewhere with this you need to notify all involved sooner rather then later.

 

[Bob J.]

BoatUS requires a survey but does not mandate that the boat be pulled out of the water.

I'm sorry TomVD, not trying to offend you but the truth is you purchased a boat & for the sake of a couple of dollars didn't haul it to properly inspect the bottom. The only person at fault here is you.

 

[jrowan]

I wouldn't play the blame game here guys. The bottom line is that you own the boat now. The insurance company is never going to pay out on that claim. This was a hidden damage caused by design flaw, or previous damage occurring beforre the policy took effect. You can forget trying to get them to pay for it. Move on. You have two options:

1. find a yard who will do the work cheaper, and 80-100 hours for that repair is ridiculous.
If its a relatively minor crack, then torque the keel bolts to spec. and apply a couple of tubes of West Systems epoxy caulk to the crack, smooth & fair it at the keel to hull joint, & repaint the hull. It will look like new again. Maybe the crack will return after a few years, maybe not. Catalinas are well known for this smile, and you should have done some research on the boat before purchasing it.

2. You other option is to put the boat up for sale & hope that your potenatial buyer knows as little about it as you did. I think that this is kind of a sneaky route, but most boats are sold as is, & its up to the buyer & their surveyor to find faults.
I personally don't think much of marine surveyors. They get off pretty easy. Many of them don't even test or run engines or electronics! That's half of the boat. Your better off hiring a marine diesel mechanic to perform a compression test & examination of the engine, & spending the $$ on the surveyor on a complete haul out instead. Seeing is believing. The 500 bucks spent on a surveyor's opinion could have gone towards hauling the boat & verifying with your own eyes that the hull & keel were in good shape or not.

PS. Allstate does not even require a surveyor's report. Boat US is overpriced & snooty. Their coverage is no better then anyone else, but they make a lot of demands. A used boat is just that: used. You are not better off after hiring that surveyor. Just 500 bucks lighter. Unfortunately these are lessons learned the hard way. That said, my C 30 had a small Catalina smile, I glassed it over myself in an afternoon's work, cost me about 50 bucks in materials, & she sails great. I have never heard of a Catalina sinking or loosing a keel over this crack. It also occurrs with a lot of other production boats. Fix the crack yourself, learn something in the process, save your money, and chaulk it up to experience.

 

[Benny17441]

That is the pitfall in not engaging a full survey prior to the purchase of a boat. The insurance survey was of limited scope just for insurance purpose and has no liability whatsoever other than the correctness for those details that may influence the granting or denying of insurance. The diver has no liability, he was just asked to look and make some observations which he did. Cracks which may be easily visible with the boat out of the water are not that easiliy visible underwater. Most boats upon inspection can be found to have standing water in the bilge so that is not an indicator of a major problem. You do seem to have placed full faith in the diagnosis of the boatyard and perhaps it is time to get a 2nd opinion on the alleged gravity of the problem.

 

[Gunni]

Well, on the other hand, you did save that $300 short haul fee!

This is why you retain a buyers broker. The broker makes inquiries, checks the boat history, QCs and briefs the surveyor, negotiates the terms and repair offsets, and generally looks after your interests. A good broker won't let you make this mistake.

 

[navigator97]

I had a similar keel to hull slight seperation/crack at the joint. the year after our first season (boats 10th year) that was there when we bought it.

The yard at my marina assessed it and said that the keel bolts were tight, and that they could do a "belly band wrap" completely around the boat. It was 5 layers. Epoxy, fiberglass mat, epoxy, fiberglass mat, epoxy. Then sanded down and faired. It has been fine for the last 13 years with no sine of any problem. Cost then was $1,100. It was about 15-20 hours or so work.

 

[Steve Dion]

What makes anyone think that the insurance company is going to pay for this?

I was not an accident!

 

[tommays]

Gotta see to say BUT having been involved in a 20000 dollar 7 knot rock its rather amazing how much carnage is possible

Once you have to start cutting the liner out of a BOAT to grind out delaminated glass it gets costly

Also saw a Friends Tartan 372 hit a ledge in Maine and just for starters it ripped the Volvo clean off all FOUR motor mounts