Folks, Has anybody install shore power on their 260? I'd like to do it before summer sailing season. I think I know enough, but not enough for those unique issues with the 260. Here's my plan: 1. Install exterior plug (probably near the stern) 2. Run wiring to C/B panel mounted on aft bulkhead by aft bearth 3. Put an outlet on inside of bulkhead (behind doors) for battery charger on it's own circuit 4. Put outlets on port side (one in bathroom, on in salon) on one circuit 5. Put one outlet in galley on it's own circuit 6. Use marine grade, three wire wire Issues: 1. I don't plan on any kind of grounding to the boat proper (e.g., to the motor, since it's an outboard and I don't have lightening protection on the boat). I'll run the ground through all the sockets, C/B panel, and back to the shore power connection. 2. Do I need a main C/B closer to the shore power connection? The books I've read says within 5 feet..and it's hard to get more than 5 feet away from anyting in the boat...lol. Any feedback would be nice. Deucer Hunter 260 "Acadia"
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Here is what I did
Deucer, I installed shore power on my 260 and love it. My in-plug is just under the stbd drink holder(15 AMPS). I installed it there 1) to keep it clean and out of the way when at sea. 2) Close to the inside stbd bulkhead, where I install the fuse panel and volt-amp meter outboard of the DC Panel). 3. I was able to run the power line thru out the boat from the monitoring station. If you want to see how and what I did look in the photo forum under 260 "improvements". To answer some of your questions: I used 12 gauge thru-out, the cheapest Good grade for this wire is to go to LOWES and get outside 100 ft extension cable and cut off the ends and use that. I have installed GFI outlets installed in the galley for the refrigerator/freezer, another one for Flat screen TV/DVD, and another outlet for all the pesky chargers. I also. integrated a 2400 WATT inverter to run all the above from the four type 31 Gel batteries. Using the inverter I can also run the boats central AC/Heater If you have any more question just send me an e-mail. ***LKYusnret2@aol.com***. It would be nice to get a response either way. John USNret (a retired electrical engineer)
Deucer, I installed shore power on my 260 and love it. My in-plug is just under the stbd drink holder(15 AMPS). I installed it there 1) to keep it clean and out of the way when at sea. 2) Close to the inside stbd bulkhead, where I install the fuse panel and volt-amp meter outboard of the DC Panel). 3. I was able to run the power line thru out the boat from the monitoring station. If you want to see how and what I did look in the photo forum under 260 "improvements". To answer some of your questions: I used 12 gauge thru-out, the cheapest Good grade for this wire is to go to LOWES and get outside 100 ft extension cable and cut off the ends and use that. I have installed GFI outlets installed in the galley for the refrigerator/freezer, another one for Flat screen TV/DVD, and another outlet for all the pesky chargers. I also. integrated a 2400 WATT inverter to run all the above from the four type 31 Gel batteries. Using the inverter I can also run the boats central AC/Heater If you have any more question just send me an e-mail. ***LKYusnret2@aol.com***. It would be nice to get a response either way. John USNret (a retired electrical engineer)
H260 Installing Shore Power
When I purchased my H260 I made a number of changes to the electrical system including shore power. Not being an electrician, I found Don Casey's "Sailboat Electrics Simplified" very useful. Unless you are skilled in this type of work I strongly suggest getting this book as your first step. There is a lot more information on wiring the H260 at this link: http://kobernus.com/hunter260/electric/electric1.html
When I purchased my H260 I made a number of changes to the electrical system including shore power. Not being an electrician, I found Don Casey's "Sailboat Electrics Simplified" very useful. Unless you are skilled in this type of work I strongly suggest getting this book as your first step. There is a lot more information on wiring the H260 at this link: http://kobernus.com/hunter260/electric/electric1.html
grounding and breaker placement
As long as a shore power AC systemm is properly grounded, it will always invite corrosion. Since your primarly concern would be the outboard, keep an eye on what happens over the course of the season to see if you'll need to add a galvanic isolator. Conventional wisdom is to connect the shore power grounding in common with the boat's ground system to be safe. Depending on the shore power ground alone is not the best choice. For breakers, just remember a boat isn't a house. AC breakers on boats should, unlike the house, be double pole and also, ABYS standards (if you care) recommend the main breaker be within 10 ft of the boat's shorepower input At least the last time I looked it was 10 ft. If you choose to not put one within the recommended distance, additional breakers are required within 10 ft (or 5, whichever is correct).
As long as a shore power AC systemm is properly grounded, it will always invite corrosion. Since your primarly concern would be the outboard, keep an eye on what happens over the course of the season to see if you'll need to add a galvanic isolator. Conventional wisdom is to connect the shore power grounding in common with the boat's ground system to be safe. Depending on the shore power ground alone is not the best choice. For breakers, just remember a boat isn't a house. AC breakers on boats should, unlike the house, be double pole and also, ABYS standards (if you care) recommend the main breaker be within 10 ft of the boat's shorepower input At least the last time I looked it was 10 ft. If you choose to not put one within the recommended distance, additional breakers are required within 10 ft (or 5, whichever is correct).
I put shore power on my new '06 25
I put shore power in my new Hunter 25 a few months back. You seem to have all the right ideas. As far as the grounding. I did what you suggested. There is a lot of controversy out there as far as the grounding. I don't have to worry much about corrosion of the outboard, as mine stays tilted and completely out of the water while in the slip. I would suggest you use GFCI outlets. They are not that expensive and add a bit of safety.
I put shore power in my new Hunter 25 a few months back. You seem to have all the right ideas. As far as the grounding. I did what you suggested. There is a lot of controversy out there as far as the grounding. I don't have to worry much about corrosion of the outboard, as mine stays tilted and completely out of the water while in the slip. I would suggest you use GFCI outlets. They are not that expensive and add a bit of safety.
Adding Shore Power
Folks, Thanks for the quick response. I've got Don Casey's "Sailboat Electrics Simplified" which is very helpful. However, I guess my concern about grounding is choosing the lesser of two evils. If I ground to the negative side of the house bank (in effect, grounding to the motor), I risk the 110 stray voltages entering the DC side. If I don't, then I limit myself to a single point of failure with the dock ground. What I don't see is if I keep the two sides completely separate (with the excpetion of the battery charger), how do I invite corrosion? Guess a couple more data points that I left out might help... If things go right, I'll be dry bearthing Acadia on her trailer at the marina, so the only time I'll be using shore power with the boat in the water is when we're overnight cruising and staying at a marina. I DO plan on using all marine grade wiring and C/B's. John USNret, when you mounted the in-plug, did you epoxy the hole, or just cut through? Deucer
Folks, Thanks for the quick response. I've got Don Casey's "Sailboat Electrics Simplified" which is very helpful. However, I guess my concern about grounding is choosing the lesser of two evils. If I ground to the negative side of the house bank (in effect, grounding to the motor), I risk the 110 stray voltages entering the DC side. If I don't, then I limit myself to a single point of failure with the dock ground. What I don't see is if I keep the two sides completely separate (with the excpetion of the battery charger), how do I invite corrosion? Guess a couple more data points that I left out might help... If things go right, I'll be dry bearthing Acadia on her trailer at the marina, so the only time I'll be using shore power with the boat in the water is when we're overnight cruising and staying at a marina. I DO plan on using all marine grade wiring and C/B's. John USNret, when you mounted the in-plug, did you epoxy the hole, or just cut through? Deucer
AC to DC grounding
With respect to corrosion, AC induced galvanic corrosion is simply an unintended consequence which happens even with a properly wired AC installation. If you want a thorough description of the reason(s), email off-line or go to one of a number of authoritative books on the subject. The bigger issue is the question of bonding the DC to AC circuit grounds to which there are some certainties regardless of what view you take. The first certainty is that isolating the two systems also isolates any underwater metals while maintaining shore-side AC grounding. The result can be dangerous because: If a charger malfunctions or there is a short between the Ac and Dc wiring someplace or someday, the current has no path back ashore; To maintain the same voltage potential of the neg circuit and to protect from lightening or stray-path lightening, the two should be interconnected, and lastly, There may be mutiple pieces such as AC equipment or DC equipment with unforseen paths to the other ground such as AC units, non-marine chargers, some water heaters, etc... I understand most of these issues go away with trailer-sailed boats but you might rethink the idea of getting away with it when the boat is in the water
With respect to corrosion, AC induced galvanic corrosion is simply an unintended consequence which happens even with a properly wired AC installation. If you want a thorough description of the reason(s), email off-line or go to one of a number of authoritative books on the subject. The bigger issue is the question of bonding the DC to AC circuit grounds to which there are some certainties regardless of what view you take. The first certainty is that isolating the two systems also isolates any underwater metals while maintaining shore-side AC grounding. The result can be dangerous because: If a charger malfunctions or there is a short between the Ac and Dc wiring someplace or someday, the current has no path back ashore; To maintain the same voltage potential of the neg circuit and to protect from lightening or stray-path lightening, the two should be interconnected, and lastly, There may be mutiple pieces such as AC equipment or DC equipment with unforseen paths to the other ground such as AC units, non-marine chargers, some water heaters, etc... I understand most of these issues go away with trailer-sailed boats but you might rethink the idea of getting away with it when the boat is in the water
more on grounding
Don, So on a boat with an outboard and really no other metal that touches the water, is the best way to ground the A/C and the D/C together to run a from the a/c ground to the ground at the battery bank? Any other thoughts were that ground connection should be placed? In all the books I've seen, it is pretty clear for inboard boats as you have the prop shaft going into the water so you can ground your A/C ground on the engine block, but I have yet to find a good source for where to ground the A/C when dealing with an outboard that is not left in the water when in the slip. Seems to me that if I have no metal touching the water, that connecting the A/C and D/C grounds doesn't accomplish anything at all. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Don, So on a boat with an outboard and really no other metal that touches the water, is the best way to ground the A/C and the D/C together to run a from the a/c ground to the ground at the battery bank? Any other thoughts were that ground connection should be placed? In all the books I've seen, it is pretty clear for inboard boats as you have the prop shaft going into the water so you can ground your A/C ground on the engine block, but I have yet to find a good source for where to ground the A/C when dealing with an outboard that is not left in the water when in the slip. Seems to me that if I have no metal touching the water, that connecting the A/C and D/C grounds doesn't accomplish anything at all. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I think this is all too complicated
Basically all you are doing, on a trailerable yacht or at the leat one that spends most of the time in the water, is replicating getting an extension cord, plugging it into the marina power supply, laying the cord on to your yacht and plugging something in. Surely no more no less so I cannot understand all this fuss about grounding.
Basically all you are doing, on a trailerable yacht or at the leat one that spends most of the time in the water, is replicating getting an extension cord, plugging it into the marina power supply, laying the cord on to your yacht and plugging something in. Surely no more no less so I cannot understand all this fuss about grounding.
JeffC
JeffC I think I wrote the last message in a confusing way and you are absolutely correct that this is a point of debate among marine electricians.. My take is that AC grounding circuit should be tied to the boat's DC negative. No one ever explained to me how this could be a bad thing but there are a number of valid reasons for doing it so that's why I believe it is correct. Since you might not have a neg bus bar, any single point including the battery neg post will do but only if there is no other common ground bus. What I probably should have said before is forget you have an outboard. The fact that it is only sometimes in the water is irrelevant to the issue of safety in the electrical systems onboard. The outboard issue comes into play with respect to galvanic corrosion only -sorry to confuse the issue.
JeffC I think I wrote the last message in a confusing way and you are absolutely correct that this is a point of debate among marine electricians.. My take is that AC grounding circuit should be tied to the boat's DC negative. No one ever explained to me how this could be a bad thing but there are a number of valid reasons for doing it so that's why I believe it is correct. Since you might not have a neg bus bar, any single point including the battery neg post will do but only if there is no other common ground bus. What I probably should have said before is forget you have an outboard. The fact that it is only sometimes in the water is irrelevant to the issue of safety in the electrical systems onboard. The outboard issue comes into play with respect to galvanic corrosion only -sorry to confuse the issue.
AC Current Kills
There is an excellent discussion of grounding for AC and DC boat systems at this link. http://www.sailmail.com/grounds.htm
There is an excellent discussion of grounding for AC and DC boat systems at this link. http://www.sailmail.com/grounds.htm
A/C Complexity
Wow...I didn't expect this to get quite this..complicated. Allow me to review/modify my plans with what I've learned: 1. Install exterior plug (probably near the stern). 2. Run wiring to C/B panel mounted on aft bulkhead by aft bearth a. Possibly install galvanic isolator on ground between plug and C/B panel 3. Rewire D/C panel to replace grounding star lug with bus bar 4. Install A/C panel near D/C panel and ground A/C to D/C bus 5. Put an outlet on inside of bulkhead (behind doors) for battery charger on it's own circuit 5. Put outlets on port side (one in bathroom, one in salon) on one circuit 6. Put one outlet in galley on it's own circuit 7. Use marine grade, three wire wire throughout and GFI outlets as first outlet on each circuit (it will protect any other outlet down stream..Casey, p.145). Oh, and I'll run all exposed A/C wire in conduit. Now for the last real, "How does this work?" question. I don't think theres a grounding wire running to the outboard (other than for the starter). And teh boat doesn't have lightening protection that I know of. So, without a path to water (i.e., ground), I assume the battery becomes the sink for stray voltages. What happens to the battery if a A/C short goes to ground and runs to the battery? I'll document how I install my shore power and find a why to post it in the knowledge base. Thanks for all the help. Deucer
Wow...I didn't expect this to get quite this..complicated. Allow me to review/modify my plans with what I've learned: 1. Install exterior plug (probably near the stern). 2. Run wiring to C/B panel mounted on aft bulkhead by aft bearth a. Possibly install galvanic isolator on ground between plug and C/B panel 3. Rewire D/C panel to replace grounding star lug with bus bar 4. Install A/C panel near D/C panel and ground A/C to D/C bus 5. Put an outlet on inside of bulkhead (behind doors) for battery charger on it's own circuit 5. Put outlets on port side (one in bathroom, one in salon) on one circuit 6. Put one outlet in galley on it's own circuit 7. Use marine grade, three wire wire throughout and GFI outlets as first outlet on each circuit (it will protect any other outlet down stream..Casey, p.145). Oh, and I'll run all exposed A/C wire in conduit. Now for the last real, "How does this work?" question. I don't think theres a grounding wire running to the outboard (other than for the starter). And teh boat doesn't have lightening protection that I know of. So, without a path to water (i.e., ground), I assume the battery becomes the sink for stray voltages. What happens to the battery if a A/C short goes to ground and runs to the battery? I'll document how I install my shore power and find a why to post it in the knowledge base. Thanks for all the help. Deucer
simpler than sailing well
Sorry if it sounds complicated but think of it in comparison to explaining to anyone how to sail - this really is alot simpler than it sounds and you're doing everything correctly. The path an AC short would take is to the common (green) return to shore while plugged in. When not connected to shore power, there's no AC to short.
Sorry if it sounds complicated but think of it in comparison to explaining to anyone how to sail - this really is alot simpler than it sounds and you're doing everything correctly. The path an AC short would take is to the common (green) return to shore while plugged in. When not connected to shore power, there's no AC to short.
I Had the Same Idea as Mark When I Installed Mine
The only thin different I did than what Duecer is thinkig of is I installed the AC on the port side and left all the DC on the starboard. Bought all the components through Defender. Duecer shoot me an email and one weekend I'm in Biloxi I can help you out on that. I'm out here this weekend for a Mardis Gras Ball. It is really not difficult to do.
The only thin different I did than what Duecer is thinkig of is I installed the AC on the port side and left all the DC on the starboard. Bought all the components through Defender. Duecer shoot me an email and one weekend I'm in Biloxi I can help you out on that. I'm out here this weekend for a Mardis Gras Ball. It is really not difficult to do.
H260 Shore Power
Sounds similar to my installation. Did not do the galv isolator but worth doing I think. Would like more info on how you go about it. If you have not already done so, you might consider relocating the engine battery as it's standard location sucks. You might think about putting at least one AC outlet under the table. I've found them useful for fan, laptop, hairdryer etc. AC in head a good idea and easy to do. Will be interested in your installation. We don't have anything on electrical in the knowledgebase and this would be a valuable addition.
Sounds similar to my installation. Did not do the galv isolator but worth doing I think. Would like more info on how you go about it. If you have not already done so, you might consider relocating the engine battery as it's standard location sucks. You might think about putting at least one AC outlet under the table. I've found them useful for fan, laptop, hairdryer etc. AC in head a good idea and easy to do. Will be interested in your installation. We don't have anything on electrical in the knowledgebase and this would be a valuable addition.
Install Shore Power
Folks, I'm starting to price parts out now. Before I get started, I've got to see what income taxes are going to do to me. However, I hope to have this complete before we get heavily into the summer sailing season. We really want to spend some weekends cruising over around Ft Walton Beach. Another thing I didn't mention was the boat came with a portable air conditioner suitable for marine use (as opposed to true marine air). I've got to size it's electrical load. George, I've been debating what to do with the battery. I currently only have the original house/starting battery, but I'd really like to beef that up. My thoughts have been to install two Trojan T-105 golf cart batteries to give me ~235 amp hours on the house bank and the cost would be somewhere around $250-$300. But that's another project and another thread. I'll keep the forum posted on when and how I do this. George, I might need some help getting it into the knowledge base. Rick, let me know when you've got some free time over here and we'll get together. Thanks everybody of the advice.
Folks, I'm starting to price parts out now. Before I get started, I've got to see what income taxes are going to do to me. However, I hope to have this complete before we get heavily into the summer sailing season. We really want to spend some weekends cruising over around Ft Walton Beach. Another thing I didn't mention was the boat came with a portable air conditioner suitable for marine use (as opposed to true marine air). I've got to size it's electrical load. George, I've been debating what to do with the battery. I currently only have the original house/starting battery, but I'd really like to beef that up. My thoughts have been to install two Trojan T-105 golf cart batteries to give me ~235 amp hours on the house bank and the cost would be somewhere around $250-$300. But that's another project and another thread. I'll keep the forum posted on when and how I do this. George, I might need some help getting it into the knowledge base. Rick, let me know when you've got some free time over here and we'll get together. Thanks everybody of the advice.
Keep an Eye Out at West Marine
As I though about it I picked up the wire off the markdown shelf. When they get to the end of the roll they roll it up and sell it. Home Depot out here carries Ancor wire and connectors and was way cheaper than WM. Iused the gray PVC stuff for the outlet boxes and have three circuts. One to the V berth for the battery charger or the hatch mounted air conditioner, one in the galley and one in the aft berth. With only on plug on each.
As I though about it I picked up the wire off the markdown shelf. When they get to the end of the roll they roll it up and sell it. Home Depot out here carries Ancor wire and connectors and was way cheaper than WM. Iused the gray PVC stuff for the outlet boxes and have three circuts. One to the V berth for the battery charger or the hatch mounted air conditioner, one in the galley and one in the aft berth. With only on plug on each.
Shore Power
Re the batteries - two Trojans might be overkill. Carefully consider weight and balance. With one deep cell on each side I have to make sure my wife stores the canned goods on the port side because the engine is on the stbd side.
Re the batteries - two Trojans might be overkill. Carefully consider weight and balance. With one deep cell on each side I have to make sure my wife stores the canned goods on the port side because the engine is on the stbd side.
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