Installing Holding tank

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May 1, 2005
107
Beneteau Oceanis Boca Raton, FL
Hi Peggy, I am installing a holding tank in my 40 Beneteau that did not have factory installed system as it was in the BVI. I ordered the tank from Beneteau, and when it arrived, it did not have the shape I expected to fit the "where I expected" it go in the boat. Come to find out, it is mounted in the stearn of the boat which requires about 15 feet of hose to get to it. What I have in hand for the installation is the tank, a Y valve, pump out and vent fittings, one elbow fitting for the vent-to-tank. What I am looking for is suggestions on the routing of the plumbing. The West advisor shows the Y valve on the exit side of the tank. If I install it in that configuration, I have to have two 15 feet plus runs of hose to get back to the through-hull in the head. Also, as the fittings to the tank are all on one end. This would seem to require some kind of pump to empty the tank. Getting ready to "dive in"~~~~~~~~~?>< to the job this week end as heavy winds in the area are determined to keep me inside.
 

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
An installation suggestion

Instead of running that 'hose' which is going to need replacement at some point, consider running PVC pipe instead. I just got finished replacing all the hosing with PVC which means I will NEVER have to deal with the aroma of the head again. ...just my 2 cents worth.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,944
- - LIttle Rock
I'd send the tank back and buy another one that

fits a space within 6' of the toilet. 'Cuz bowl contents will never make it to the tank in the amount of time that anyone will ever spend pumping a toilet, which will always leave it sitting in the line. Hard pipe may eliminate permeated hoses, but not the potential for clogs and other problems...and isn't a good idea anyway unless the run from the toilet to the tank is straight and downhill. It'll cost you less to send it back than all the additional plumbing etc that you'll need if you keep it. Or, sell it on ebay. Ronco Plastics http://www/ronco-plastics.com makes top quality tanks for a very reasonable price and has more than 400 shapes and sizes, over 100 of which are non-rectangular. And they install fittings in the sizes and locations specified by the customer when they make the tank. I'll bet they have what you need, for prob'ly a lot less than you paid to Beneteau. Better yet, unless you spend a lot of time in the Keys--the only "no discharge" waters in FL, install a treatment device instead. Where were you planning to put the tank, btw?
 

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
A question, Peggie

More and more areas are being designated 'no discharge'. My particular bay is so designated and the trend seems to indicate a growing number. Would it then be prudent to have a holding tank possibly combined with a treatment device?
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,944
- - LIttle Rock
Best way to go in your waters...

'Cuz although most of the harbors on LIS are ND, the Sound is not...making the discharge of treated waste legal. However, it IS illegal to dump a tank in the Sound. So the best option for you would indeed be a Type I and a small tank for use while in a harbor. Raritan even offers an option called the "hold 'n' treat system that makes it possible to empty (note I said "empty," not dump) a tank via their Lectra/San, ElectroScan or PuraSan, eliminating the need for pumpouts altogether. They show the Hold 'n' Treat on their website as a complete package including a tank, but the system can retrofitted to use with any existing tank and macerator. Check it all out here: http://www.raritaneng.com/products/waste_treatment/index.html
 
May 1, 2005
107
Beneteau Oceanis Boca Raton, FL
Tank Location

There is a space beside the sink and back wall of the head. It would require a wedge shape tank. I did find one that looked like it would fit at Raritan. $250 just for the tank though. Have not been able to determine where Beneteau put the holding tank when installed original. But , Ward at Beneteau and I determined it must be in the stern by the amount of hose that he pulled up from "what I needed to install the second head". The list he pulled from his manual had 15 feet plus, which would put it on the port side in the stern section. I already put the Raritan in the foward head. The Keys is one reason I wanted to make the second head "legal", but I noticed last year on a trip to the Abacos that a couple of the harbors had no dumping signs posted as you entered. Looks like it can only get worse with the environmetal wackos running amuck out there.
 
May 1, 2005
107
Beneteau Oceanis Boca Raton, FL
Other owners??

If there are any 400 Oceanis owners listening with factory installed aft head in the three cabin, port head model, where is the tank located???
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,944
- - LIttle Rock
Kerry, Raritan gets most of their tanks from Ronco

And puts a pretty steep markup on 'em. Go to the Ronco site at the link I gave you and check the price of their same tank. The only difference between the Raritan mold # and Ronco's is, Raritan puts the tank size ahead of the Ronco mold #. Iow, if Raritan's drawing is mold # 20B123, it's a 20 gal tank, Ronco mold #123. Btw, "no dumping" doesn't necessarily mean that the discharge of treated waste is a no-no...only that dumping a tank or flushing a toilet directly overboard is. So a treatment device on the aft head instead of another tank could be your best option. When in the Keys, you'd only have to lock the door to that head to be "legal" (federal law does include that among the ways to "secure" a treatment device) and use the other one while you're there. You should have no problem using a treatment device in the Abacos or anywhere else in the Caribbean.
 

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
It's not that...

...we're trying to make boaters lives miserable by advocating environmentally prudent action. We just have an aversion to boating and swimming in other peoples shit. A further problem that none of these devices addresses (including city treatment systems)is the tons of pharmaceuticals that are dumped and remain in the echo system.
 

natotm

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May 5, 2006
29
- - -
No Kerry Krap for me either.

As an avid swimmer and diver I do take offense at your "Looks like it can only get worse with the environmetal wackos running amuck out there." I'm sure that you would not like to take a dip in your own "Kerry Krap". Ned
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,944
- - LIttle Rock
I think you both have just made a case favoring

onboard treatment instead of holding tanks. It is indeed a far more environmentally friendly soltuion!
 
May 1, 2005
107
Beneteau Oceanis Boca Raton, FL
wackos

To Alan and natotm, I was referring to the treated materials coming out of my Raritan, which I understand is cleaner than the crap most cities, including Boca Raton, pipe a few hundred yards offshore. If we are going to force "no discharge zones" on all inland and ocean, " thus the term wacko", then I suggest you do not get in the water with the 1000's of pounds sharks and whales and all the other fish species. Is their "crap" cleaner than ours? Oh, and where do you think the sh*t goes when it is pumped from the holding tank? I don't think it is fed to the fish for recycling.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
The Hypocrisy Over Boater Discharge Kills Me !

Here's a few excerpts from the Portland Press herald from just a few weeks ago! Quote Press Herald: "Every time a steady rain falls on Maine, millions of gallons of untreated sewage and storm water overflow collection pipes and spill into streams and coastal waters. More than half of that pollution pours out of pipes scattered around the city of Portland. Overflows in the city last year totaled about 1.8 BILLION gallons - about 30 million gallons for every inch of rain. Portland was supposed to begin a three-phase, 15-year cleanup plan in 1993. But as of the end of 2006, two years before the original deadline, the city had eliminated just six of 33 targeted overflows, according to the state." My Comment: Portland is perhaps one of the most liberal cities in the US besides Berkley CA and a few others. Where is the outrage? Where is the action instead of the loud voices of these folks telling others how to live like what ligh bulbs I should be using in my house? Quote Press Herald: "When we have (overflows), we're getting human waste, we're getting storm water and we're getting industrial effluent. It does have an effect on the ecosystem," said Joseph Payne, bay keeper for the nonprofit Friends of Casco Bay." "Why haven't they made progress when 36 other cities have?" said Sen. John Nutting, D-Leeds." More of my comments: That's a very good question coming from a liberal senator from one of the most liberal states in the country. The so called "environmentally friendly" Democrats have been in total power in the state of Maine since 1972 and they are asking why nothing has been done? Hmmm do they really care about the environment? Aparantly not! It is a total scam and a bunch of feel good BS to help a particular party look as if they do something but they really do nothing. The same bay, the above article was referencing, is the one made an NDZ (No Discharge Zone) just last year while our Democraticly ruled state government decided to look the other way on 1.8 billion gallons of raw sewage! When will the feel good attacks on boaters and other small segment groups stop and real legislation be accomplished? The Dems and Repubs are NO different and it is no clearer than the hypocrisy witnessed here in Maine. We should be one of the cleanest states in the country if you base your facts on things like Repubs are anti-environment and the Dems are pro environment. Maine is also the state where the Green party was founded and we have many Greens in our state govt. These are folks who are way, way, way to the left of the left when it comes to governing, supposedly the environment and being anti-capatilist. One of them, a big wig, is from, of all places Portland! 1.8 billion gallons and liberal "environmentally friendly" Maine has done nothing except to go after a few boaters who already complied with the laws far better than our own state! With the highest taxes in the country you'd think Maine would have the funds to fix our sewer systems but there is usually NO real action and only a bunch of empty talk and attacks on the "low hanging fruit" or the "easy targets". They attack these small segments of the population like the evil boaters because it is easy and looks good in campaigns to make themselves look good and it's usually done in a class warfare style! After all boaters are rich we can all afford to rip our Lectrasan units out, which are cleaner than what the state dumps into the bay, because we are evil and "stole" our money from the "poor". Disclaimer: I am not a democrat or a republican and think both parties are full of hypocrite fat cats.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,944
- - LIttle Rock
Boat owners just as hypocritical?

More waste tanks are illegally dumped than are pumped out...how many of you on inland waters, or Chesapeake Bay, SF Bay, or the PNW San Juan Islands have macerator pumps to dump your tanks installed on your boats...and USE 'em? Your (and btw, my use of the words "you" and "your" here refer to boat owners in general, not to any individual person) excuses: too far to nearest pumpout...pumpout in my marina doesn't work...it's inaccessible at low tide...it's too expensive... But even those who wouldn't dream of dumping a tank-who go ballistic at the idea of discharging even a little organic toilet waste overboard think nothing of dumping some bilge cleaner or detergent into oily bilge water and letting the bilge pumps send it overboard. "But I only use biodegradable bilge cleaners," you claim. "Biodegradable" or not is immaterial...'cuz "biodegradable" is a meaningless feel-good term that is NOT synonymous with "environmentally friendly." In fact, almost everything except metal will eventually biodegrade, and therefore can be labeled “biodegradable.” Worse yet, any product may legally be labeled “bio-degradable” provided at least 70% of the ingredients in it are capable of bio-degrading at all; up to 30% of the ingredients can be as toxic as nuclear waste. SeaLand TDX, which is an exceptionally nasty formaldehyde-based witch's brew, is a prime example of this. “Non-formaldehyde formula” on chemical holding tank product labels is meaningless to...'cuz it only means that the product doesn’t contain formaldehyde; most have just substituted another equally lethal chemical; gluteraldehyde and quaternary ammonium compounds are the most common active ingredients. Many cleaning products contain grease cutting solvents such as butyl, alkali or alcohol (Simple Green contains butyl)..none of which are enviro-friendly. But hey, they're "biodegradable," so you think you're "doing the right thing" by using 'em. However, whether a bilge cleaner or any other degreaser or detergent is "biodegradable"--or even really is an environmentally friendly product--is also immaterial because none of 'em magically turn the grease, oil and diesel into an environmentally friendly mixture...they only emulsify it (break up the oil molecules) so that it sinks instead of putting an oily sheen on the water when your bilge pumps dump it overboard. Iow, they just hide the evidence of your oily discharge (which btw, has been illegal far longer than it's been illegal to flush a toilet directly overboard) that does FAR more harm to the environment than flushing a toilet directly overboard. And what about chemical teak cleaners and other chemical cleaning products that you hose off the decks into the water? But let someone suggest that ANY toilet waste--even from a treatment device that puts out a discharge that's far cleaner than the water in any marina, cleaner than that from any sewage treatment plant--go overboard and you start ranting about concern for the environment. Is it ignorance...or are boat owners really just as hypocritical when it comes to the environment as politicians?
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Peggie, some years ago there was a mock

letter to a company that was selling a cleaner of some sort and their claim was "if it is safe in water it is safe in XXXX." The letter quoted the claim and then said, " now about my goldfish." On my boat I set the system up so that I can't discharge overboard. As to oily bilge water, Do you feel the same outrage as I when you cross a shopping center parking lot during a rain storm?
 
May 1, 2005
107
Beneteau Oceanis Boca Raton, FL
Tank orientation

Back to installing holding tank. I looked at the tanks that Ronco has in their catalog, and did not find the one I was looking at from Raritan. I did find a larger one that may work if the height is not no much for the adjacent space. I hate having to close the space in as it is a rather small head to begin with. But, in either case, if I have the inlet, outlet, and vent holes placed, what would be the correct configuration? The tank from Beneteau, which is a Todd, all the holes are on one end, with the two 1 1/2" holes on oposite sides of that end. This looks like the drain should be on the bottom, the intake on the top. I believe I have room to put the drain directly on the bottom if I can specify. Would this be good, or should it be coming off the side, at the bottom. Also looks like I will need a Y valve, and a T fitting to arrange so that I can have the head discharge directly through the hull, or into the tank, and also be able to empty the tank through the hull (outside the three mile limit of coarse.)or pump out.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,944
- - LIttle Rock
You don't want to put the drain ON the bottom

We need to discuss your particular installation in more detail than is practical in a discussion forum. Send me an email--I'm in all the owner directories--and we'll take it from there.
 
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