Installing Deck Organizers

Mar 20, 2011
623
Hunter 31_83-87 New Orleans
Hi All:

I want to run additional lines to cockpit and need to change from a double to triple deck organizers on my 84 H31. Since these are not thru bolted to the cabin for access and I do not have an access panel similar to where deck winches and rope clutches are located can you advise what I need to do in order to attach new organizers to the deck? Looks like organizers have a thru bolt with nut on the bottom but not sure how to tighten down on this if necessary. All help/comments are welcome. thanks, Jerry
 

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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Those look stackable. Buy the same ones and lay them on top of the existing. 2x2=4 a side. Same placement for bolts, just longer!
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,660
Hunter 34 Alameda CA
Jerry,
There is an aluminum plate underneath the fiberglass deck below those turning blocks. As I recall, they are tapped so the two screws thread into them. In my case, I wanted to add an extra as well so I just bought another double and some longer screws and stacked them. The lines on the upper do not chafe on the seahood. For about the same price as a triple, I got an extra sheave and didn't have to figure out what angle to mount it.
Hope this could work for you.
Turning Blocks.jpg
 
Jun 5, 2010
1,107
Hunter 25 Burlington NJ
Jackdaw's solution is simple; but there's a wrinkle (see below). Also, Allan's picture apparently shows a 1980s-or-later Hunter with a 1970s Schaefer double cheek block ('organizer'?) on it-- is this original?

Here is another example of when 'the boatbuilder is not your friend' (as I used to tell my customers at WM). I'll say this as succinctly as I can:

EVERY piece of hardware that can potentially a) leak, or, b) be replaced before the boat goes to a landfill, should have its mounting bolts accessible from both sides. No blind tapped holes in a buried aluminum backing plate is sufficient, no matter what the boatbuilder (who is not your friend) has done or your friends (who may be less than technical experts) have said.

Reasons for this opinion (which is not a personal opinion but technical fact):
  1. What happens when the aluminum backing plate parts from the 'glass, inside the headliner where you can't see it? This can happen due to water intrusion. (Also, what's holding the aluminum in place? --do you know? Trust me-- it could very well be the piece of hardware itself. Take the bolts out and listen for a dropping sound. Now what?)
  2. How can you tell if there's water intrusion? --when water is coursing down the outside edge of the headliner into your bookshelves? And how do you know where it's coming from? This is the well-discussed problem with all molded headliners-- and the reason why only the cheapest boats still use them.
  3. Cheek blocks, halyard stoppers, organizers and winches are under shear loads, not tensile loads. This means the load is trying to rip the hardware laterally off the boat, not upwards. You don't need a block large in area for a backing plate; you need one that's thick. The plate of aluminum is probably 1/4". This isn't good enough. The unthreaded section of the mounting bolt needs to lean up against something thick to stop it moving along with the load. This necessitates a thick block, adequately bonded to the underside of the deck, in which a thick deck layup won't hurt either. I seriously doubt either of these is present in 1980s Hunters. How thick do you think your deck layup-- minus the core, which provides no strength-- is? With the metal plate, this is what's holding the load of your cheek blocks. As I have so often said before, this is definitely a case for bonding the backing block with 5200, which is excellent in shear and tensile loads. Butyl tape under the hardware is okay here, given a proper backing block (which the aluminum plate is not), because all it has to do is to temporarily hold out water (about all butyl tape is good for). 5200 under the hardware would be great; but the hardware needs to be replaced or upgraded someday, so it needs to be removable.
  4. Long fasteners under shear loads are more prone to bending than short ones. This means the longer bolt needed for a double-stacked cheek block is less than optimal (especially for the upper sheaves' lines). Handrails are under bending loads and have the same problem. The shorter the fastener, the stronger the hardware will be, in use. This is why you see teak handrails in which the mounting bolts are way down inside deep-bored plugged holes; and why you see stainless ones with mounting flanges.

Solution (you won't like this):

Cut an access panel in the headliner, dress it off as prettily as you like, and gain access to the bolts and their locknuts and have a means of inspecting against water intrusion. (Rule number one: it's a boat; therefore water gets everywhere. Rule 2: never dismiss the primacy of rule 1.) Install an adequate backing block, properly bedded to the underside of the deck. I have discussed this sort of block before in these posts.

Sorry; but, again, the boatbuilder was not your friend here. Don't hesitate to call into question practices that are clearly inadequate. You questioned how to remove and replace this piece of hardware, because it wasn't obvious to you how that could be done. You were right: the boatbuilder left you no means of ascertaining it yourself. So, as I said, you might not like the solution; but I'm willing to bet you already thought of it. And that should tell you something!

(Forgive me for preaching; I was tutoring kids all day today! :doh:)
 
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Nov 26, 2012
1,654
C&C 40-2 Berkeley
Allan. How did you do that? I have the same setup and no way I can stack the deck organizer without the upper line running right into the lip of the opening. What gives?
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,660
Hunter 34 Alameda CA
Allan. How did you do that? I have the same setup and no way I can stack the deck organizer without the upper line running right into the lip of the opening. What gives?
Hi Mark,

Wow, now I can't remember. It was a long time ago. I won't be at the boat until 12/30, so I will have to look then for you. That picture I posted was an enlarged and cropped view of something else I was photographing. I now see that I may have rotated the entire organizer about one of the screws and re-drilled one new hole. That may have changed the alignment and gained clearance. Or maybe it only touches a little as its down hill to the organizers at the other end. I use it for my boom brake and my asymmetrical tack line. Guess you better cruise down the estuary and have a look. Its the last slip on the end of Dock 6 at OYC!

Allan
 
Feb 2, 2006
470
Hunter Legend 35 Kingston
My '87 Legend 35 came with Schaefer triple leads. I ordered replacement Schaefer 6 packs ( double stacked 3's). Same hole spacing. As noted above, there is an embedded SS plate in the glass, so it's an easy replacement. There are aluminum backing plates for most deck equipment on my boat.

Chris
 
Jan 22, 2008
1,660
Hunter 34 Alameda CA
Mark,

I took a couple of pictures yesterday of my stacked deck organizers. As you noted the top line does rub on the leading edge of the sea hood. It has not been a problem for either my boom brake or my asymmetrical tack line (not shown). I did reach up in there and find that the opening is a lip that could be trimmed away if necessary. Then there appears to be clearance the rest of the way through that tunnel. Excessive chafe has not been a problem. As I mentioned earlier, I did rotate the organizers to get a better angle to enter the opening. There might be bolts clear through and inside the headliner board with nuts and washers but I can't remember.

Touching.jpg
Turned.jpg
 
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