installing a new toilet and holding tank..

rchrdcoe · Apr 26, 2007

Roy-
The only reason to haul out would be to change the thru hulls. I
installed a holding tank behind the head with the bottom just above
the water line, so no pump was required. It elimated the space for
the sink however.
Richard V1812-- In AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com, "groundhog" groundhog1rb@...
wrote:

groundhogyh · Apr 26, 2007

Thanks Richard. I wanted to make sure, in case the marina makes me put the boat in sooner than I expect.

Do you remember what brand/model holding tank you used?

I am starting to wonder if I can get a long skinny tank and put it in the locker just forward of the bathroom. Then I can keep the sink... if that's even worth doing.

Roy

frankdeba27 · Apr 26, 2007

Hello,
We installed a tank that I'm very happy with. It's a Ronco Plastics, about 13 gallons, and installs just aft of the freshwater tank between the two 1/4" bulkheads under the v-berth where I believe the original jerry can was stowed. Two kids and two adults need the tank pumped every third day while cruising. I had two 3/4" vents installed, one at the front of the tank and one at the back,and ran hoses to through hulls on each side of the boat, at the top of the topsides just below the deck. This provides ventilation so aerobic bacteria can enjoy a lovely buffet. We don't use odor masking chemicals but use KO (Kills Odors) from Raritan, which is, I suppose, just the hungry odor eating bacteria. Our boat was very stinky before this upgrade, and we are thrilled with the improvement. We also upgraded the waste hoses to the very expensive Sealand ones the also keep our boat smelling fresh. If anyone is interested I can locate my paperwork and let you know what tank I actually ordered. I also have the drawing I faxed to Ronco with the location of all the fittings.
Frank & Tena DeBaggis, Vega 2141, Carpe Diem

rchrdcoe · Apr 27, 2007

Roy-
I could'nt find a tank that fit so I made one from 1/4" plywood and
fiberglassed it inside with outlets top & bottom. The KISS system,
no pumps req'd.
Richard V1812

groundhogyh · Apr 27, 2007

Richard,
All I can say is you must be REALLY confident in your craftsmanship when it comes to fiberglass and plywood! That's some sensitive cargo.

Thanks Frank, for the details of your system.

1813

albinvega1493 · Apr 27, 2007

After reading about all the holding tank issues, I went and bought
some stainless today to make a holding tank. I think I will put it
behind the head, and take the sink out. I like the idea of no
pump. The sink seems awkward there anyhow. I have access to a TIG
welder so I should be able to weld up a tank no problem. I'm
getting tired of working on the boat. Need to get her in the water -
- SOON --

Larry
Hull 1493 "Freya"
albinvega1493@...
SF Bay

pjacobs55 · Apr 28, 2007

I built a similar tank to Bill's. I used 3/8" (9mm) fir plywood and
lined the inside with fiberglass cloth and epoxy. The tank is shaped
to the hull side for maximum volume, about 11 gallons (50 l).
It sits on a shelf between the bulkheads to allow for the boat
flexing a bit, and is held in with four face pieces.

The inlet enters at the bottom of the tank and connects to a
standpipe inside the tank. This keeps external hose length to a
minimum.

The Jabsco toilet is reversed to put the flush handle on the fwd side
of the head, and the floor has been lowered 2" (50mm) to provide more
sitting head room

The outlet is on the aft side of the tank and drains through a 1 1/4"
thru hull with a Groco full flow 1 1/4" pipe-to-1 1/2" hose 90 degree
elbow. The thru hull is in the original location, and has a Groco
ball valve.

The pump-out is on the deck, and there are two 5/8" vents in the tank
top, leading to vents on either side of the head window.

I put three epoxy "eyes" in the face of the tank for checking the
water level.

The tank works on the KISS system. The only time it doesn't empty
straight through is when heeled over hard on the port tack, otherwise
it works like a charm.

There are some photos at:

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www3.telus.net

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www3.telus.net

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www3.telus.net

I like Larry's idea of a stainless steel tank. It'll certainly be
bullet-proof!

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

albinvega1493 · Apr 29, 2007

Looks like you did a beautiful job in the installation of the tank.
I like the KISS principle here too. No so sure about the plywood
epoxy combination. I'd like to know in a year or so how it is
doing. Later.

Larry
albinvega1493@...

pjacobs55 · Apr 29, 2007

Thanks, Larry.
I wasn't too sure about plywood/epoxy-fiberglass myself, until I
built a dinghy about six years ago. It's taken an incredible amount
of abuse without failures, so I'm confident about the tank.

The one thing I was concerned about was attaching it to the boat too
rigidly and suffering a crack due to boat flexing. That's why it's
installed in a 'floating' manner, with a little wiggle room all round.

The corners and joints are all filleted with thickened epoxy, as well
as screwed together. The lining inside is ten ounce cloth, with three
coats of epoxy brushed over. The last coat was flowed on, one side at
a time, to give the inside a glass-smooth finish. The top was put on
last, screwed and sealed with 3M 5200 fast cure.

How long will it last? Only time will tell. I gave it my usual
invocation of lasting as long as I own the boat, times two

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

D_Chown · Apr 29, 2007

I'm very interested to read about the different ways of creating a
holding tank as I'm clearly going to have to do the same before I head
south from the grey (and opaque!) waters of the UK to those warm blue
waters that are beckoning me! Forgive my ignorance but I have a couple
of very basic questions. When you say the pump out is on the deck what
do you mean? And is the idea that you just open the valve when you are
far enough offshore and the tank drians itself? Is that an advantage
of the above/behind the head location vs aft of the freshwater tank?
Or does it need pumping out and if so how and where? Many TIA!

albinvega1493 · Apr 29, 2007

If you install the holding tank above the water, then it does not need a
pump to drain it. If it is below the water level, then you need a pump.
There is room behind the head for a tank up to 15 gal, maybe a little more
if it is shaped right. greatlakesskipper.com has a moeller holding tank that
is plastic that would fit in that space. The sink would have to be taken out,
and also the shelves/cubby hole storage areas behind the head. You could
build a thinner taller tank of about 14 gallons and just make the storage
shelves a llittle shallower. That is what I am doing with stainless.

Larry
albinvega1493

albinvega1493 · Apr 29, 2007

Hey Peter,

I had visions of the outer hull being part of one side of the tank. The
floating wiggle room you describe sounds to me like it will work. Later.

Larry
albinvega1493
SF Bay

albinvega1493 · Apr 29, 2007

Just a quick question, has anyone used PVC pipe for doing the plumbing
of the head? Seems to me a lot cheaper, also doesn't hold the smell
like hose would.

Larry
albinvega1493

pjacobs55 · Apr 29, 2007

It works well, as long as you have a flexible coupling at the
critical places where you could get movement. I'd use "Schedule 40"
as it's quite a bit thicker than the "Class 200". It's definately the
way to go for longer runs.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

pjacobs55 · Apr 29, 2007

The deck pump-out is for emptying the tank at marinas etc. There's a
deck plate that connects to a hose or pipe that goes to almost the
bottom of the tank to suck out effluent.

With above-water line holding tanks, simply opening the thru hull does
the job ... well offshore of course! It doesn't require any pumps
or 'Y' valves, hence the K.I.S.S. moniker.

Good luck with your project!

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

groundhogyh · Apr 29, 2007

Everybody loves talking poop..

I would suggest anyone interested search the archives of this forum as this topic has been discussed before and I know there is more detailed info that you will be interested in.

Roy

groundhogyh · Apr 29, 2007

Peter,
How did you do such a good job staining/finishing the wood? It looks exactly the same as the 30 year old wood. What type of wood did you use?
Roy

pjacobs55 · Apr 30, 2007

Roy,
When I bought Sin Tacha her wood interior was in very good condition.
I refinished it with three coats of satin varnish.

The wood around the holding tank is some sort of South American cedar
that was used to make the packing crates for our family's move from
Argentina to Canada in '60. I rescued it many years ago, thinking it
would come in handy some day.

After running it through the planer I discovered it had a beautiful
reddish hue that took varnish well. What you see in the picture is
the natural color, a nice compliment to the Vega's woodwork.
Unfortunately it's all in short lenghts.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

albinvega1865 · May 1, 2007

Hi Everyone!

I need to fashion a new fairing block for my depth sounder transducer. Currently there is a big wooden, rotten, ugly block that is now pulling away from the hull, and the surveyor found the wood to be quite saturated. Are there manufactured fairing blocks out there? Plastics, epoxy build-ups, etc...???

I would like to think that I could do the same job, but have it not stick out the 5-6" that it currently does. Has anyone done a similar job? Any suggestions, pictures, websites or manufacturing companies would be greatly appreciated. The Spring is coming quickly....

Chris