I want to install wind transponder on top of my mast (Hunter 33.5, 1988, Z. Diffusion) so need to install new cable through the mast. Can this be done without pulling the mast? If there is existing messenger line great, if not, I plan to use the existing radio antenna coax to pull in new lines. Would appreciate any insight into difficulties before I launch into this.
Install New Cable In Mast
- Thread starter Roger Wood
- Start date
Welcome aboard, Roger.. If you are lucky, there will be a messenger line .. but you probably will not be able to pull through without pulling the mast. In my boat, the antenna coax takes a hard turn to port side that would stop the pulling.. If the messenger exits at the base of the compression post, it'd be a straight pull and might be doable but you'd not be able to put in a drip loop so water would leak in.. The other thing that folks do is to cut an access hole into the mast (a 4" tall and 2" wide oval) covered with a plate cover. If you search this site, you will find a discussion of the location and cautions about it..
While it can be done with the mast in column, great care should be exercised to prevent wrap inside the mast. Tightening all halyards will help. I prefer to do this as an end of season activity. Using gravity to drop the new cable and secure in place. Unstep for the winter and use a mirror to cast light into the mast to ensure that there are no entanglements.
Aren't there wireless options? Running the cable isn't that hard but if the mast is decked stepped then the thru deck route is problematic. I really, really don't like making another hole in the deck near the mast. You can make the hole with the mast perimeter but obviously have to remove the mast. If the mast is keel stepped you can theoretically fish the wire out of the mast under the deck. My Hunter was decked stepped, and I guess yours is too. It had wiring that went to a terminal bus inside the cabin. You could use the anchor light with a messenger to bring up the sender wiring (Which is typically light), and with luck be able to bring both through the mast endplate. But this will necessitate multiple trips up the mast (realistically). Much easier done with the mast on horses on the ground. Drill holes, do what's needed with tools a few feet away. Never mind the risk of working up the mast.
Wind instruments up the mast are over rated in my opinion. I always wanted them, and when I had them, I didn't find them as useful I as expected.
Wind instruments up the mast are over rated in my opinion. I always wanted them, and when I had them, I didn't find them as useful I as expected.
Oh, and I forgot but the terminal hardware for at least some windvane/anerometers can be an inch in diameter i.e. a pretty big hole. You don't really want to cut the cable, especially at the top, so that suggests a top down approach. Big PITA on the ground. Maybe not as bad up the mast since gravity will help. But you don't have the path down the mast that pulling a messenger up from the Masthead light or antenna.
I didn't mean to get into this in depth and I am over my head. But you need to consider these things in planning this job. And worse yet I'm not even mentioning the "Might as wells." Sheaves, tangs, wire terminals etc. A boatyard manager complained that he couldn't make money on sailboats and I told him he should lower the prices on dropping the masts and there would be plenty of work. He just couldn't grasp it.
I didn't mean to get into this in depth and I am over my head. But you need to consider these things in planning this job. And worse yet I'm not even mentioning the "Might as wells." Sheaves, tangs, wire terminals etc. A boatyard manager complained that he couldn't make money on sailboats and I told him he should lower the prices on dropping the masts and there would be plenty of work. He just couldn't grasp it.
If you don’t have a messenger line, you could drop a line, with some weights on the end (like a bunch of nuts) to get a line down the mast. The pull up your new cable.
do you already have a wind device on the mast! If so, maybe you can use the old cable asa messenger ( I did that with a halyard).
i have a TacTic (now RayMarine) wireless wind transducer. Works well on my boat.
Good luck.
Greg
do you already have a wind device on the mast! If so, maybe you can use the old cable asa messenger ( I did that with a halyard).
i have a TacTic (now RayMarine) wireless wind transducer. Works well on my boat.
Good luck.
Greg
Only to a Ray Marine compatible display as far as I know. My display unit has zero connections in it, so I cannot get the data to my CP or network ;-(.
I have been looking a solution to capture the data and get it on my N2K network, but no joy so far.
But the unit well as a stand alone wind instrument.
I dropped the transducer in the water from the top of the mast (don’t ask
), retrieved it and dried it out, and it still works great. I left it up this winter (again...don’t ask), and she is still working after a cold and snowy winter at the top of the stick. The transducer is solar powered, so you don’t really need to do anything with it.My old gripe is that the head unit lacks any connectivity to any other network. I am not sure if an upgraded unit was available when the PO purchased it, or if he just went the “cheap route”.
Greg
So i did add a wind instrument to my Hunter 33.5- spoiler alert my mast was unstepped at the time- there was no messenger, but there was a channel for wires to go down the mast- the problem is that once the mast is stepped it is not a straight run from the mast down to the boat where you can run wires to your instruments. The connection point is in the head and once you open the little hatch you have to run your hand way over to the port side to get the wires- It can be done but its a pain- Good luck
It’s really easy to fish a line down with the rig up. But, if your wires go through the mast base into the cabin ceiling (like my 40.5), then that is your limiting factor.
If you know what you’re doing, it’s about 4 hours up in the chair. The biggest issue isn’t the cable; it’s drilling & tapping the holes to mount the masthead unit base.
You need to be working over the top of the mast to do this, which is, (excuse my French), but a major pain in the balls.
So, if your existing cabling exits inside the mast, pull the rig.
Now, if you asked me how to do this, if there was absolutely no way to pull the rig, here’s the answer:
First, get a really good bosuns chair with a wood seat (not a soft sling)
You will need
Electrical fish tape 50 feet
Ball chain 2 feet. (Like the stuff at the end of Venetian blind string)
You will need to make a template of the masthead mount. I believe the Raymarine mounts with #10 screws. Make this out of either 3/8” aluminum, or 1/2” hardwood.
It needs to be the same shape as the mount.
You need to drill a hole in the end, just big enough to jam a piece of coat hanger into.
This is going to be the visual guide giving true fore aft positioning.
The holes in the plate should all be initially .150”, which is tap size for 10-24
procedure
Mount a thin piece of double sided tape to the bottom of the template. Don’t strip off the other side.
Go up the rig. Be sure to NEVER use a shackle to secure your chair. Always tie a bowline with the halyard. Use the topping lift as a safety.
Your drill must be on a safety lanyard.
Chuck in a starter drill bit. (The short stubby things)
Take up with you:
Drill
Template
Small wd40
.150 drill bit
Sharp pointed awl that will fit through .150 hole.
At the masthead
Take out the template, and remove the tape.
Stick the template down giving you the most space to mount it, and adjust for true fore aft
Take the awl, put it into the hole being the front most one. and bang it up and down, giving you an impression point where the screw will be.
Remove the template, and stash it in your pouch
Spray a small bit of WD on the spot, and with the starter drill, make a dimple.
Now, chuck in the .150” bit, spray some WD on it, and very slowly & carefully drill a very vertical hole in the spot.
Back down to the deck
now, in the hole that you used as the first position, drill clearance for #10, which is a shade higher than .190.
insert the short length (about 18”) of very straight coat hanger into the front surface of the template.
In your bag, you now need:
Template (take off tge
The 10-24 mounting screws
A good quality 10-24 tap, with a T handle.
Screwdriver
Drill
Tap drill bit
WD
Up you go
In the hole that you drilled, you are going to tap this 10-24. Spray lots of WD on the tap, and in the hole.
Slowly, tap the hole. Life your life depends on it, don’t break the tap.
Once the hole is cleanly tapped, screw the template down, with the coat hanger facing fore.
The screw should be lightly tight
Have someone on the foredeck sight the coat hanger for fore-aft. Once it is true, crank down on the screw.
Now, using the template, drill through the other hole (S).
remove the template. Tap the other holes.
Back down to the deck
You now need to drill a 1” hole in the side of your mast. Make sure you are above the casting. About 6” up should be fine.
Debur the hole.
next trip up, you are going to take:
Drill
Starter drill bit
Wd
Either a good quality 1” hole saw, or a xmas tree drill bit (greatly preferred), that spans to 1”
Fish tape
So, about the fish tape.....
At the end, there will be a small formed loop. Put the bead chain through this loop, and tape it well. So, you’ll have about 18” of chain on the end of the tape.
On the side of the mast near where the vhf cable enters, drill a pilot, and then the 1” hole. Debur it
You will then insert the fish tape into the mast, and start to run it down.
At deck level, your assistant needs to have a magnet on an antenna extension. You can buy these cheaply at any hardware store.
As you lower the fish, they simply stick the magnet into the hole. At some point, they will have the chain, and they extract it.
Then, they securely tie a 1/8” line onto the bead chain, and you haul it up.
Once the fish line is up, securely tie it off.
Back down to the deck
next trip up, you’ll need
Rubber grommet that will accommodate spar thickness, and go into 1” hole. (Spae-naur in Kitchener Ontario)
Mast cable
Mounting screws
Blue loctite
Black electrical tape
Some med size cableties, and a cutter
Screwdriver
Tie a long length of 18” line to the chair tgat is more than Madt
Strip the jacket off the end of the mast cable to give about 6” of wires.
up you go
Mount the masthead bracket. Put a small amount of loctite on the screws.
Thread the fish line through the grommet, and then re-secure it
Install the grommet
Now, affix the wires to the end of the fish line. Use enough tape so that it isn’t going to let go.
Now, start to feed the mast cable down, while they take up slack at the base.
Once they have all of the cable, tie the cable at the top to a stress relieving point.
If you are really ambitious, you could actually drill a hole near the grommet, and use a cable tie with a screw mount at the end. (That’s what i would do)
Ok
Now have someone on deck tie the masthead unit to your line hanging from the chair.
Haul it up, being careful not to crash it into the mast.
Install the masthead unit.
Back down to the deck
Have a beer.
Now, fish a line from inside the cabin where the mast wires come in to the hole in the side of the mast. Use the bead chain & magnet trick.
Now, fish the mast cable from the exit hole, back into the cabin
Pop a 1” white Heyco snap plug into the side of the mast
Congratulations . You’ve done it!!!