Infamous keel lock down bolt hole damage repair.

justsomeguy · Mar 15, 2016

Yah, the epoxy can work, and so can the fiberglass. But I wouldn't install anything like the stainless you're mentioning, as that may create more problems during a grounding than just the elongation of the lock hole.

BudGates · Mar 15, 2016

Agreed, the fiberglass is the best way to repair the keel trunk. Putty is great for filling and smoothing dings and gouges but for the trunk you need the strength of the fiberglass.

The hardest part about repairing the lock-down hole is getting the new hole in the correct position. The best method that I found was to patch just one side, then replace the keel and put the boat in the water and lower the keel in to position. Then using the keel as a guide to drill the new hole. Then remove the keel again and do the same for the other side. It took three weeks to do mine because the nearest lake was an hour away. Of course I sailed her as she was each time I put her in the water. The first time* she took on 6 gallons of water in 8 hours of sailing. After patching the first side she only took on 2 gallons in 8 hours. Once both sides were done she didn't take on any more water.

*Yes, I sailed her before installing any patch to the lock-down hole because the previous owner had tried to fix the hole but ended up just hiding it with an aluminum plate on each side.

centerline · Mar 16, 2016

the way I repaired mine was easy and it is still holding, and waterproof....

first, take a piece of cardboard and lay inside the hull and fit it to make a template of where the original hole is suppose to be.

then remove the keel and cut a hard block (oak) so it fits the trunk where the lockdown bolt is, snug..... this will make a mould/backer to epoxy against...

then use a die grinder to clean up the damage AND about a half inch area around the damage (for this procedure, it does NOT have to be perfectly clean and cut back to virgin fiberglass, but just reasonably free of all loose fibers)

cover the end of the block with a plastic ziploc bag (as a form release so the epoxy wont stick to it), and insert the block in the trunk.

I used a good quality, high strength, slow cure (30min) epoxy putty, and used a 3/8" to firmly press it into place because the putty is fairly stiff.... making sure to get it formed perfectly tight around the edges of the damage... then over fill the entire area and leave it a bit high and over lapping the edges of the hole....

cut a small piece of plastic to use as a form release, with a piece of plywood scrap to press over the repair, and level it out so the rubber washer has a smooth surface to seal against when you replace the lock bolt

do the other side the same.... and let it cure overnight.

pull the backer block and redrill the holes......

this is as strong as it ever needs to be, it is waterproof, and is the easiest method to make a repair.
using a couple layers of cloth does nothing for a surface repair, and in the hole it is only a filler... so whats the point of going thru all that messy trouble.
the epoxy putty is not messy, it fills well and is strong, and when yo uoverlap the edges, it will creat a great a bond and will not allow the "plug" you just made, to be pulled thru the hole when snugging up the lock bolt against the rubber washers.

you do NOT want to build the lock bolt area so strong that when you ground the keel again, instead of damaging the lock bolt, it takes out pivot bolt hole.... OR, bend the lock bolt so bad that you have to cut the repaired area away to get the bent bolt out.

the weaker 3/8" bolt, and the "weakness" of the trunk is there by design, otherwise the resulting damage could be much worse after a severe grounding.

BudGates · Mar 16, 2016

centerline said:
you do NOT want to build the lock bolt area so strong that when you ground the keel again, instead of damaging the lock bolt, it takes out pivot bolt hole.... OR, bend the lock bolt so bad that you have to cut the repaired area away to get the bent bolt out.

the weaker 3/8" bolt, and the "weakness" of the trunk is there by design, otherwise the resulting damage could be much worse after a severe grounding.

One possible way to protect the keel trunk from future damage is to determine how much load it will take then modify the bolt so that it will break at about 75% of that load, basically making it a sheer pin rather than a rigid bolt. An aluminum bolt with a notch at the two interfaces between the keel and trunk might be just the ticket. If I still had my V-222 I'd consider doing that.

centerline · Mar 16, 2016

BudGates said:
One possible way to protect the keel trunk from future damage is to determine how much load it will take then modify the bolt so that it will break at about 75% of that load, basically making it a sheer pin rather than a rigid bolt. An aluminum bolt with a notch at the two interfaces between the keel and trunk might be just the ticket. If I still had my V-222 I'd consider doing that.

there are those that have thought this same thing... but the problem is that we never know how hard the grounding is gonna be, and with a soft grounding where the stainless bolt would easily withstand the stress, a softer bolt will not always shear, but will just bend in the hole a bit worse, making it harder to remove....back to square one!
there really is no work around to the problem, other than staying off the sandbars, rocks and submerged stumps...

a filled nylon or delrin bolt may work, because they dont bend, but snap off....but then you will still have the problem of getting the sheared piece out of the keel hole, as I have never seen a boat where the keel/trunk holes line up well enough to make easy removal of a piece of debris in the keel lock hole.... also, when the keel pops up and over the obstruction, it is going to fall back down... this can cause greater damage than a simple bent bolt in the hole.

but even so, one would want to know the shear factor of the delrin bolt before trusting it....

centerline · Mar 16, 2016

marine tex is a good product, but probably a bit soft/sticky to work with in the confined, verticle area...
I used the POR-15 epoxy putty, which is like a firm clay.... i used it in 70degree temps and I had about a 15-20 minute working window. so dont mix too much at a time.... and as soon as it starts to turn, start mixing more so you can get it worked in so it can blend, to insure there is no seam or "cold joint" in the bond of the two different batches....

Tsatzsue · Mar 17, 2016

My Previous owner hit a rock and did the same thing. The boat sank to the flotation in Buzzards bay in five minutes. Had to be towed in. I never knew this till I was investigating water infiltration and saw the glassed over arc in the trunk. I knew what must have happened but I didn't know the boat sank till one of my guys ran into him four years later!!

Anyway he glassed it from the inside of the boat not the trunk side. I never drilled out new holes. In fact the repair was rough so I beefed it up with west Marine epoxy and cloth from both sides. I was prepared to make a new pin out of 3/8 nylon all thread rod. I bought wing nuts and washers as well. All nylon from McMaster Carr. I figured it would break before the boat. I could do as one poster said and notch the rod.

I never drilled the holes or used the rod. In fact after finding out how many times I have hit rocks on my own or ran aground I don't think I would ever lock it down. The boat works better when it is floating. I still plan on having the set up installed and ready to go in the event of really big water/ weather one of these days. Even with that said I have been caught in both heavy water and weather- squalls and have never once wished I had the keel locked down. I have never heard or read of an account where the keel came down during a knock down and smashed the trunk to bits. In fact there are many more stories of damage to the trunk due to the pin. Good and frequent hardware inspections and inspections of the trunk are all I do. I have learned to count the revolutions of the winch to gauge how far the keel is down. In fact I find it beneficial to tune the boat while sailing by adjusting the keel position. You can adjust for weather helm and by adjusting up or down. You can also change the boats center of effort the same way.
I wrote a cool account of getting caught in a father's day squall last year off Cuttyhunk on our site under individual sailing reports. These are tough little boats.

Happy Sailing
Ken B.
Cmdre - North East Trailer Sailors

centerline · Mar 17, 2016

jjsbiggs said:
I didn't know that POR-15 made a putty. I've used POR-15 rust treatment on a number of repairs and think it is the best thing out there for rust work. The epoxy putty looks like it would be perfect for this repair. So you have had no problem with the repair and it worked well sticking to the fiberglass?

No problems at all....
The epoxy will harden well before it cures... and until the cure takes place, the bond the the hull will be weak and you would be able to knock ot off with a hammer, but once it cures, the bond will be forever.... this is not specific to any particular brand of epoxy, but it is the nature of epoxies in general.... it has to cure completely to gain its strength and holding power.....

As for NOT locking the keel down, hopefully you are aware of why there is a lockdown bolt to begin with....

there are people who do not feel the need to lock it down, but when the keel hits something such as a rock or log/stump, it will raise as it bounces over the object, and then it falls back down..... so it is now hammering against the trunk.
or, if you have reinserted the bolt in the hole and lowered the keel down on it, it is hammering against the bolt, in which case you end up with it bent and a damaged trunk anyway.

and there are those who leave the keel suspended from the winch cable, so it doesn't rest on the trunk or the lock bolt, in which case, when the keel rises over an object, then drops, its putting all that stress on the winch, cable, and where the winch mounts to the "bridgedeck"... and when the keel cable is tight, it annoyingly viberates/sings as you sail thru the water.

so you do have a choice in how you do it, and however you choose to do it, there is going to be stress placed somewhere when you hit something with the keel.... thats just the way it is.

Tsatzsue · Mar 18, 2016

Amen to warming up!! Snow Sunday!! Come on.....