In-mast furling - halyard follies. - H36

[PKFK]

Ok - got the boat in the water - everyone still has all their fingers and toes, and the water is *outside* the boat ! So generally things are good.


BUT - I made a silly error assembling the mast - selden with in mast furling. The main halyard was in FRONT of the upper spreaders when I put everything together - and we only noticed this AFTER the mast was up and the crane had moved on.

Normally not a big deal - just take the shackle end of the halyard up the mast and move it around the spreaders, drop it back down, and you are done.

NOT SO FAST - the "shackle" end of the main halyard on the in-mast furling H36 is actually SPLICED onto the top swivel. So no way to remove it unless you cut it - and then good luck splicing something into that tiny slot in the mast !

Only 2 ways I see to fix this -
1 - pull the mast, remove spreader, re-route halyard properly, and re-mast. Expensive and time consuming.
2 - attach messenger to the halyard at deck level, go up the mast, pull everything up till we get the messenger - cut it - re-route properly behind the spreader, re-tie messenger, and - hopefully - pull the whole damm thing back down thru the mast. (Most likely approach)

The only other option would be to somehow "release" the halyard from the top swivel - but since it is spliced on - that seems unlikely.
UNLESS - is there a way to remove the top swivel from the mast - keeping the halyard splice intact ? I have puzzled over this - but can't seem to see an obvious way to do this. DO ANY OF YOU GUYS KNOW HOW TO DO THIS ??

It would actually come under a "halyard replacement" project - for the H36 - how do you replace the darn main halyard on the in-mast furling rig ??? This spliced connection to the top swivel seems to be a killer. How do you handle this ? Is it removable ? Do you hire a splicer to come to the boat ? Normally I just take the shackle and rope to a rigger and get it spliced - but removing the top swivel seems to require the mast to be removed according to the selden manual........

Suggestions / wisdom / hard lessons inputs would be appreciated !!

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Mulf]

Selden Manuals

I'm not really clear what you are describing, but if you use the following link:
http://www.seldenmast.com/frameset.cfm?id=6611&randnum=515675160
and select the second item down, "furling mast rb rc" and scroll to paqe three, at the top of page three you will see the words "top swivel" with a line pointing to the swivel. Just below the line on the right is where the main halyard attaches to the mast. the loop that the halyard attaches to is a stainless steel shackle. If this is what you have, there is a pin holding the ss shackle to the swivel and the pin unscrews to release it.

I hope this helps. If not, you might explore the other manuals on the link.

However, your choice number 2 really seems like the best approach to me.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

On my 356 Selden mast the halyard has a small loop with a shackle that attaches it to the top swivel, they even provide a spare halyard that is now used as the topping lift. Are you certain there is not a small shackle connecting the halyard to the top swivel ? It would be a bit hard to see, I had to use long needle nose pliers to take mine apart.

Could you not cut the halyard free of the top swivel pass it the correct way around the spreader and splice a small loop in the end for a shackle for a shackle to attach to the swivel ? The loop can be easily spliced on the end of the halyard at the dock.

good luck, Bob

 

[PKFK]

We managed to get the issue resolved using approach #2 in my first posting. (We also had someone at our club who actually enjoys mast climbing and is a very kind soul).

LOTS of stitching of the messenger line to the halyard (dont want to lose that puppy !!) and we pulled everything up to the top of the mast - cut the messenger line, passed the whole mess behind the spreader where it belongs, re-tied the cut messenger line securely, and then pulled it all back down thru the mast). (With help at the top of the mast to feed it in where the messenger and halyard could jam going in).

So - this problem is solved......but looking ahead - I want to talk a bit more about the halyard attachment to the top swivel.

Bob mentioned a shackel - so I looked more closely at my halyard arrangement in the inspection port on the side of the mast.

The Halyard has a loop spliced in the end of it, and that is attached to the top swivel with a split pin/bolt. The spit pin is at the port side - accessible via the inspection port on the mast.

We (briefly) considered removing this pin and pushing the bolt out to starboard, which would have freed the halyard to be taken up and re-routed behind the spreaders, with no need to rely on a messenger system since all work will be done on the outside portion of the mast.

BUT - after looking at access to the split pin (via the inspection port) we decided not to try this. I would have had to push the bolt out towards starboard far enough to get the halyard splice free, but NOT so far as to drop the damm thing down inside the mast. With no opening on the starboard side of the mast, this seemed to be a doomed proposition. And trying to push the bolt back into the halyard splice after would have been a bear as well - again because the only access is via the Port side of the mast.

Has anyone on here replaced their halyard on the in-mast furling main ? And if so, how did you manipulate the bolt/pin assembly on the top swivel ?

(The attachment to the actual sail from the top swivel is a piece of cake - it has one of those twist shackles on it and that is easy to handle thru the inspection port).

Paul

 

[DougMc]

Removing the halyard shackle pin requires a steady hand but no more than removing the jib head shackle pin. There is no need to remove halyard so avoid doing it. I find using a pair of small needle nose vice-grips on the pins helps reduce the chance of dropping it inside the mast.
I don't mind going up the mast but finding volunteers to crank me up is hard, they rather I crank them up.

 

[Scott B]

Paul, I pull the halyard each year, attach a messanger line and send it up the mast for winter storage. A pair of needle nose pliers and very carefully pull the pin in the shackle.

Not sure what you mean by a spilt pin/bolt. Is it just a single bolt through the spliced loop or attached to a shackle.

 

[PKFK]

Scott - it is a bolt and cotter pin. (Nomenclature is confusing sometimes !) but basically a bolt that runs thru the splice (from starboard side to port) and a cotter pin on the port side that holds the bolt in place.

No shackle is there - just the halyard held in place with the bolt and cotter pin. (I do have a shackle that attaches to the head of the sail - that is a piece of cake to handle)

I just can't seem to see how to remove the halyard bolt + cotter pin - and hope to re install it - since the bolt "head" is on the starboard side of the mast - which has no access port. If there was an access port on the starboard side, then it would be stupidly easy. But no port makes it seem like a big gamble to even attempt it.

Paul

 

[Bob 04 H260]

I would be tempted to just remove the bolt (does it really have threads on it ??) and let it fall into the bottom of the mast. Fish the halyard out of the mast slot and slip a small s/s shackle through the loop in the halyard. Then it would be fairly easy to take the pin out of the halyard when required, and if you carry a spare pin not such a big deal if it were dropped.

just a thought........Bob

 

[Scott B]

I would be tempted to just remove the bolt (does it really have threads on it ??) and let it fall into the bottom of the mast. Fish the halyard out of the mast slot and slip a small s/s shackle through the loop in the halyard. Then it would be fairly easy to take the pin out of the halyard when required, and if you carry a spare pin not such a big deal if it were dropped.

just a thought........Bob

What I was thinking as well.

 

[PKFK]

Good suggestion Bob. (Although I think I will do it in the fall when decomissioning - with Murphy always present, the darn thing will likely get caught on the furling swivel or something like that and jam it, causing yet another job !)

I called it a "bolt" - Clevis Pin would be the correct term - sorry for the confusion ! No threads - just a wide head on one end to stop it going all the way thru, and a hole thru the other end so you can secure it with a cotter pin or split ring.

And I agree 100% that replacing it with a shackle is a good idea....not sure why it was not set up that way in the first place.

Cheers,

Paul

P.S. - Bob - hope to see you on the water....assuming the flood gates eventually get removed from Britannia harbour.

 

[Bob 04 H260]

Good suggestion Bob. (Although I think I will do it in the fall when decomissioning - with Murphy always present, the darn thing will likely get caught on the furling swivel or something like that and jam it, causing yet another job !)

I called it a "bolt" - Clevis Pin would be the correct term - sorry for the confusion ! No threads - just a wide head on one end to stop it going all the way thru, and a hole thru the other end so you can secure it with a cotter pin or split ring.

And I agree 100% that replacing it with a shackle is a good idea....not sure why it was not set up that way in the first place.

Cheers,

Paul


P.S. - Bob - hope to see you on the water....assuming the flood gates eventually get removed from Britannia harbour.

Paul, I I like the way you think ! yes fall would be better.........

I hope I do see you out there. Our 356 is in Florida but I have a Wayfarer, "Green Side Up" or I could be crewing for Cap'n Jim Kelly on the Fran Sea out of NSC.

I hope water drops soon to allow the gates to come down, fair winds, Bob

 

[PKFK]

I did notice in the online manuals link posts by Mulf that there is a shackle used for both the halyard and head connections - not sure why mine is set up the way it is - perhaps it was built on a Friday shift ?. I now have my first fall maintenance item !

Bob - I will keep my eyes open for Green Side Up on Lac Deschenes ! (That name reminds me of a great old Newfie joke BTW)

Cheers,

Paul