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In Board Shrouds

Nov 27, 2019
32
C&C 30. MK1 715 Lake Norman
Keep us updated on performance please.
What about the cushions? Are you going to modify them or forget them?
I don't see any backing on the jib track mounting nuts other than washers, am I missing something?
Did You consult with Catalina on this modification?

Really looks good!

Boy did I misunderstand you post! I thought you had modified your boat.

This will throw PHRF ratings into disarray.
 
Last edited:
Jun 6, 2016
187
Catalina 275 Wilmette, IL
Looks like a lot of hardware has been added to support the shrouds, which begs to question: how secure are the shrouds on hulls 1-50? I was just thinking this exact thought a couple of weeks ago and wondering what the shrouds are really secured to and what is preventing the shrouds from pulling out. As some or all of this may be hidden from view, it's more of a mystery than a known.

Wonder what size sail they'll be able to fly with the outer tracks now. Can't be too big, unless they have a second set further aft.
 
Mar 11, 2014
200
1057
Looks like a lot of hardware has been added to support the shrouds, which begs to question: how secure are the shrouds on hulls 1-50? I was just thinking this exact thought a couple of weeks ago and wondering what the shrouds are really secured to and what is preventing the shrouds from pulling out. As some or all of this may be hidden from view, it's more of a mystery than a known.

Wonder what size sail they'll be able to fly with the outer tracks now. Can't be too big, unless they have a second set further aft.
When I got hull 34 I went back to Gerry Douglas and asked that very question he called me and assured me that he knew what he was doing. I wasn't questioning his design abilities but asked how the connection method used on the 275 was different from each of the 4 previous Catalina in that the 275 didn't connect to the Hull directly. He explained that the Hull deck connection on the 275 was inverted from the previous boats and that the backing plate crossed the hull to deck connection and therefore it effectively was connected to the Hull.

Frankly, I accepted his explanation with the intent in the not to distant future of getting the backing plate redone so that there was a long extension flange that could be bolted to the hull.

Seems they wanted to go back to an overlapping Genoa and this was a requirement as you'll notice they added a track.

I have asked if this mean they have shortened the spreaders as well and will let you know if I get a response.
 
Mar 11, 2014
200
1057
Keep us updated on performance please.
What about the cushions? Are you going to modify them or forget them?
I don't see any backing on the jib track mounting nuts other than washers, am I missing something?
Did You consult with Catalina on this modification?

Really looks good!

Boy did I misunderstand you post! I thought you had modified your boat.

This will throw PHRF ratings into disarray.
Not my boat, just learned about this forward boat change in conversations with Catalina about other stuff.
 
Jul 24, 2018
34
Catalina 275 36 Sydney Harbour
C275 outboard shroud connection detail from Catalina attached.

It surprised me a bit, had never seen a shroud fixing other than to a load path aligned chainplate or tie-rod. In any case I figure Gerry Douglas dependable track record for relatively conservative engineering & build (at least among production builders) is assurance enough.

But I do look at that new inboard tie-rod assembly pic next to my outboard detail... and hope the tie-rod set-up is taken standard from a larger Catalina model and/or in any case is quite a bit over-engineered for this boat. If not I take it back.
 

Attachments

Nov 27, 2019
32
C&C 30. MK1 715 Lake Norman
I wonder what they will call boats with the inboard rig,, 275R?
I hope they don't continue to call is the "Sport" because that will really mess up the ratings!
 
Jun 6, 2016
187
Catalina 275 Wilmette, IL
Dumbest thing Gerry did was slap the word "Sport" onto the the C275 name. That's how we ended up with incorrect PHRF's between 130 and 135, which will take at least a decade to correct.
 
Mar 11, 2014
200
1057
Dumbest thing Gerry did was slap the word "Sport" onto the the C275 name. That's how we ended up with incorrect PHRF's between 130 and 135, which will take at least a decade to correct.
While I love this boat, a Sport boat it is not.... Charleston fleet assigned me a 180 w the chute (202 w/o) and given my performance is looking to add to that...
 
Mar 11, 2014
200
1057
Charleston just updated my PHRF rating due to my race performance... Now its spinnaker rating to 192 and non-spinnaker to 224.
 
Jan 1, 2006
5,990
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
The ancient C27 with inboard engine rates around 235 non spin in our local PHRF fleet.
In my opinion for PHRF fleets, if a boat is consistently winning then they warrant time being taken. Sorry, I know many disagree. But in order to promote even racing that will encourage participation the PHRF committee needs to hold to the "Performance" part of the rating. You need a strong fleet handicapper who watches the data. For example, if a boat shows up with beautiful new laminate sails and the rest are flying good but Dacron sails, the PHRF committee needs to take that into consideration unless they want the racing to be one of the checkbook.
People can go as high as they want on the competitive step ladder but ultimately the sport prospers by level competition at whatever level.
 
Mar 11, 2014
200
1057
The ancient C27 with inboard engine rates around 235 non spin in our local PHRF fleet.
In my opinion for PHRF fleets, if a boat is consistently winning then they warrant time being taken. Sorry, I know many disagree. But in order to promote even racing that will encourage participation the PHRF committee needs to hold to the "Performance" part of the rating. You need a strong fleet handicapper who watches the data. For example, if a boat shows up with beautiful new laminate sails and the rest are flying good but Dacron sails, the PHRF committee needs to take that into consideration unless they want the racing to be one of the checkbook.
People can go as high as they want on the competitive step ladder but ultimately the sport prospers by level competition at whatever level.
Since I had such a commanding on last place I guess the PHRF committee determine that the inverse is true and they needed to give me time...
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
OK wow.

Seems Catalina finally got the memo that the boat was a dog with that tiny rig dragging around 5000+ pounds. But instead of fixing that correctly (taller mast anyone?), they mod the boat to fly an old-school genoa. Welcome back to 1998. Amazing.

The original chainplate attachment is NOT COOL, and I don't care what GD says. That need to be attached to the hull in SHEER, in not coupled through the deck in tension. I've see that design fail.
Screen Shot 2020-09-02 at 2.24.36 PM.png


Its not PHRF job to make racing a 'everyone gets a trophy' thing. The ratings only job to fairly rate the boat. I promote sailboat racing as much as anyone, but kill me if I want to handicap someone because they are better than I am.
 
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Likes: jon hansen
Jan 1, 2006
5,990
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
It's a fine line between avoiding the arms race with the checkbook and "Everyone gets a trophy." I am talking primarily about PHRF racing at the club level. I guess what I call fairly rating boats is something like if the boats were switched between the top sailors and the middle of the pack sailors, the top sailors would still win most of the time. If it's not the PHRF committee's job to create that racing, whose job is it? Who will be the watchdog stopping the Hobie 33 having its way with the cruising fleet like a wolf in a sheep paddock.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
It's a fine line between avoiding the arms race with the checkbook and "Everyone gets a trophy." I am talking primarily about PHRF racing at the club level. I guess what I call fairly rating boats is something like if the boats were switched between the top sailors and the middle of the pack sailors, the top sailors would still win most of the time. If it's not the PHRF committee's job to create that racing, whose job is it? Who will be the watchdog stopping the Hobie 33 having its way with the cruising fleet like a wolf in a sheep paddock.
My comment is based on this, where you said:
‘In my opinion for PHRF fleets, if a boat is consistently winning then they warrant time being taken.’

that’s totally wrong. Along with being good, a HUGE part of racing is boat prep. Probably half. Don’t put in the work? You don’t win, but don’t cry.

A PHRF boards only job is to rate boats fairly. Not to ‘grow’ fleets. Now if a club wants to create a cruiser class with credits in the SI for crappy sails and a ton of gear downstairs, that’s OK. But it’s really not racing. In racing the best wins.
 
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Rick D

.
Jun 14, 2008
7,002
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
To digress, I looked at Jerry's personal Catalina 27 that he was done with some 30+ years ago. It was a cool boat. I was told it had a Capri 30 rig, keel and rudder. That was the salesman talking, so who knows? It looked like it (it was out of the water). The rig was clearly different. It also had inboard shrouds with bar tied to the hull. Diesel inboard. The top part of the inner liner was cut away from the deck up. Anyhow, he raced it extensively I'm told. Why else go to that much trouble? I hope it's still around. Someone has a great boat.
 
Jul 24, 2018
34
Catalina 275 36 Sydney Harbour
The original chainplate attachment is NOT COOL, and I don't care what GD says. That need to be attached to the hull in SHEER, in not coupled through the deck in tension. I've see that design fail.
In any case subject to tension. Assuming you meant 'shear' shear failure would be the problem if the original fixture goes for anything other than corroded 316 irrespective. Unless you're talking about laminate failure at the gunnel where did you see a meth adhesive bonded lap of solid laminates like this fail under shear of a back plated wichard for a 5-6mm shroud load?
 

Grip

.
Dec 2, 2020
18
Catalina Catalina 30 Portland, Maine
Any updates on performance with the inboard shrouds and larger jib/genoa?
 

Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
1,035
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
Good heavens, +200 PHRF ratings on this Catalina? I have a 1979 ODay (28) which is a beamy girl with that rating. I would agree with @Jackdaw , seems like this needs to be turbo'd. Because the interior is fairly spartan, so it leans towards racy in terms of comfort.